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The genius of Pakistani missiles.

Safriz

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The following thread compromises of my own ideas and observations on Pakistani Shaheen series of missiles.

When Shaheen missile was first launched in 1999 it was called the impossible missile by world Media.
Pakistan wasn't expected to build a solid fueled missile of such range and accuracy.
Soon China was blamed for providing Pakistan with the technology or the whole missile.
A trend that continues to this date.
Those blames are based on visual comparisons of Chinese missiles and Pakistani missiles . While components may have been bought from china or elsewhere, it is safe to say the missile is an indigenous Pakistani build.

But if looked closely the Pakistani missile program may stand out as one of the most well planned and well organized in the world.
Cost and time saving are the main themes and to go that five principles are followed.

* Never Re-Invent the wheel. If a required component is commercially available, buy it.
A missile has to work only once and any country needs only a few hundred nuclear missiles. It's too expensive to launch a research and development program for each component and then to build assembly lines to churn out a few hundred components.
This expenditure is only done for parts which cannot be bought off the shelf.

* Interchangeability . If assembly lines are to be built for a missiles' major component, make sure that component is usable in multiple systems.

* Never be too adventurous. New missiles are only incremental upgrades of existing ones. Completely new systems are never built.

* Check for the bullets before building the gun.
Missiles are built only after availability of appropriate warheads are made sure , not the other way round. It's far difficult and expensive to build a new type of nuclear warhead than a new type of ballistic missile.

* Don't do it just because you can. Nothing in Pakistani missile arsenal is built just because the country has to capability , technology and money to do so. Missiles are built only when absolutely necessary.

The first Shaheen missile was soon followed by a second version Shaheen-1.
Both used the same motor body or first stage but Shaheen RV had four compartments, while Shaheen-1 had three.
*
2017-04-3--23-48-25.jpeg

2017-04-3--23-57-32.jpeg


Shaheen had movable delta fins at the base of Reentry vehicle assembly, while Shaheem-1 had non triangular cropped delta fins.
Shaheen used aerodynamic forces after reentry for course correction and accuracy. The delta fins were moved by actuators to make adjustments to trajectory after descending to 60 Km altitude .
Such arrangements created high drag as whole reentry bus had to remain intact for much later after reentry and release of warhead was delayed , resulting in lower warhead speed within atmosphere .
A reminiscent of Abdali missile which used similar system.
blob.jpg

Shaheen-1 ditched that system and relied on liquid fired Vernier sideways rockets placed at the base of the RV bus. The missile used same warhead as original version.
Ditching mechanical means of maneuvering helped increased speed and reliability. But the system still used cropped delta fins for stability after entering the atmosphere. Which still meant lower speeds due to drag.

The Vernier liquid fuelled sideways firing motors on RV are used in all Shaheen series missiles. The presence of liquid fuel is One of the reasons why Pakistani ballistic missiles are not canistarized.

In 2004 Pakistan tested a new type of missile with much longer range than any previously tested Pakistani missile. The Shaheen-2 had a new type of warhead and new type of stages . It looked like an entirely new missile despite being named after an existing series of missiles.
Shaheen-2 was a major investment of R&D and financial resources. In 2005 US spy satellites counted at least 25 Shaheen-2 Launchers.
May be due to being a major investment, Pakistan made the most of it and deployed the missile in substantial numbers.
Shaheen-2 carried similar RV as it's predecessors, minus the fins. This was the first Pakistani ballistic missile without fins on the RV assembly. Indicating improvement in guidance and post boost attitude correction systems.
Shaheen-2 was also indicated higher re-entry speeds for the warhead as RV bus could make all the course corrections while in space and release the warhead at the edge of atmosphere, reducing drag and ensuring higher speeds all the way to detonation.
It took Pakistan another 8 years to test fire and field a new addition to Shaheen series. The Shaheen-1A was test fired in 2012. This missile had two version . The deployed or weaponised version used older Shaheen-1 motor body with a new elongated RV . The new RV seemed to have a propulsion of it's own , most probably liquid fuelled which also did the job of course correction system. The arrangement increased the range of Shaheem-1A over previous version the Shaheem-1. This deployed version is illusive and not many details or high resolution images are available to understand more about it. The system was paraded once on 23rd march 2015.
The other version of Shaheen-1A was the more photographed version which also is a test bed for a new Warhead. The new sleek warhead had a much smaller size , in fact 40% smaller than Shaheen -2 warhead. The warhead was test fired on Shaheen-1A test bed multiple times since 2012.
shaheen-1-image02.jpg

In the above picture deployed version is second last and test bed version is the last.
Three years later Pakistan tested the longest range Shaheen series the Shaheen -3 which used the same warhead which was test fired multiple times on Shahee-1A test bed version.
Shaheen-3 itself is an incremental upgrade of Shaheen-2 with 10cm widened stages for extra fuel and a third stage squeezed on the top utilizing the space available due to miniaturizing warhead and elongating the missile by 1-2 meters compared to shaheen-2.
The latest Pakistani ballistic missile the MIRV capable Ababeel-1 also uses the same warhead being tested since 2012 on Shageen-1A test bed . The first two stages are the already tested stages from Shaheen-3 . The third stage and the RV bus are new.

To summarise. Shaheen , Shaheen-1 and Shaheen-1A deployed version use the same warhead and same or similar stages.
Shaheen -2 was a new missile with new warhead and new types of stages.
Shaheen -3 uses upgraded stages of Shaheen-2.
Ababeel uses same first two stages as Shaheem-3.
Shaheen-1A test bed version, Shaheem-3 and Ababeel MIRV use the same miniaturised warhead.

That way only three types of warhead are being used on seven types of missiles.
Only two types of solid fuel stages are being used on seven types of missiles.

That's why Pakistani missiles are reliable, low cost and tests don't fail.



On the other hand India also uses 3 types of warheads' on 5 types of Agni and only Agni 1 and Agni-2 share one stage. Every other stage on all Agni series is different.
Agni-1 and Agni-2 use same warhead and same first stage.
Agni-4 and Agni-5 use same warhead.
Agni-3 has a separate warhead design.
Agni-1 and Agni-2 use Jet vanes for steering.
Agni-3 uses thrust vectoring by hot or cold gas injection.
Agni-5 uses thrust vectoring by movable nozzles.
Using so many different types of stages and three different types of steering methods means all need separate extensive testing and separate production lines. Increasing costs and deployment time.

All Pakistani ballistic missiles use Jet vanes for steering.
2017-08-2--02-07-18.jpeg
 
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Pakistan has alot of faults

All predictions stated that we would collapse and not survive as a state

We were meant to be dead and buried decades ago

Yet here we are, for all our faults what we have achived is a miracle

We can argue for hours about which jet is better then the other, whst we should have done, could have done, why havent we done but the fact that we are even discussing the possibilities is amazing
 
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The Vernier liquid fuelled sideways firing motors on RV are used in all Shaheen series missiles. The presence of liquid fuel is One of the reasons why Pakistani ballistic missiles are not canistarized.
Hi shaheen missile!
It is indeed a challenge to find right kind of metallurgy for the RCS tanks that store liquid fuel and oxidizer for attitude correction,roll etc.This especially gets complicated if you intend to store your missiles in hermetically sealed cannisters for rest of their lives or inside nuclear subs.India too faced these issues somewhere in early 2010s and now they have gradually overcome this issue.I dont know how pakistan intends to do the same.
 
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Biggest genius is that they are all successful in first trial and ready for induction.
 
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Hi shaheen missile!
It is indeed a challenge to find right kind of metallurgy for the RCS tanks that store liquid fuel and oxidizer for attitude correction,roll etc.This especially gets complicated if you intend to store your missiles in hermetically sealed cannisters for rest of their lives or inside nuclear subs.India too faced these issues somewhere in early 2010s and now they have gradually overcome this issue.I dont know how pakistan intends to do the same.
Hi Amar.
The thread original post is ongoing work and I am still adding to it.
Do come back later.
 
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The thread is now complete.
Plz take time to read and comment
 
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Biggest genius is that they are all successful in first trial and ready for induction.

Seems you are butt hurt. Now read the highlighted part.

That way only three types of warhead are being used on seven types of missiles.
Only two types of solid fuel stages are being used on seven types of missiles.


That's why Pakistani missiles are reliable, low cost and tests don't fail.



On the other hand all five types of Indian Agni series missiles are entirely different from each other.
Hence requiring 5 different types of warheads as in 5 different nuclear weapons design. 5 different types of manufacturing facilities and extensive testing of all 5.
 
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Hi shaheen missile!
It is indeed a challenge to find right kind of metallurgy for the RCS tanks that store liquid fuel and oxidizer for attitude correction,roll etc.This especially gets complicated if you intend to store your missiles in hermetically sealed cannisters for rest of their lives or inside nuclear subs.India too faced these issues somewhere in early 2010s and now they have gradually overcome this issue.I dont know how pakistan intends to do the same.
Nuclear subs is not a problem since missiles are off loaded when the sub is in port during the handover cycle to the next crew. True for land based warheads.
 
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Biggest genius is that they are all successful in first trial and ready for induction.

*sigh*

Readers, dont take bait. Indian troll attempting to derail thread as usual. Please ignore

This message brought to you by me
 
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The following thread compromises of my own ideas and observations on Pakistani Shaheen series of missiles.

When Shaheen missile was first launched in 1999 it was called the impossible missile by world Media.
Pakistan wasn't expected to build a solid fueled missile of such range and accuracy.
Soon China was blamed for providing Pakistan with the technology or the whole missile.
A trend that continues to this date.
Those blames are based on visual comparisons of Chinese missiles and Pakistani missiles . While components may have been bought from china or elsewhere, it is safe to say the missile is an indigenous Pakistani build.

But if looked closely the Pakistani missile program may stand out as one of the most well planned and well organized in the world.
Cost and time saving are the main themes and to go that five principles are followed.

* Never Re-Invent the wheel. If a required component is commercially available, buy it.
A missile has to work only once and any country needs only a few hundred nuclear missiles. It's too expensive to launch a research and development program for each component and then to build assembly lines to churn out a few hundred components.
This expenditure is only done for parts which cannot be bought off the shelf.

* Interchangeability . If assembly lines are to be built for a missiles' major component, make sure that component is usable in multiple systems.

* Never be too adventurous. New missiles are only incremental upgrades of existing ones. Completely new systems are never built.

* Check for the bullets before building the gun.
Missiles are built only after availability of appropriate warheads are made sure , not the other way round. It's far difficult and expensive to build a new type of nuclear warhead than a new type of ballistic missile.

* Don't do it just because you can. Nothing in Pakistani missile arsenal is built just because the country has to capability , technology and money to do so. Missiles are built only when absolutely necessary.

The first Shaheen missile was soon followed by a second version Shaheen-1.
Both used the same motor body or first stage but Shaheen RV had four compartments, while Shaheen-1 had three.
*View attachment 381794
View attachment 381795

Shaheen had movable delta fins at the base of Reentry vehicle assembly, while Shaheem-1 had non triangular cropped delta fins.
Shaheen used aerodynamic forces after reentry for course correction and accuracy. The delta fins were moved by actuators to make adjustments to trajectory after descending to 60 Km altitude .
Such arrangements created high drag as whole reentry bus had to remain intact for much later after reentry and release of warhead was delayed , resulting in lower warhead speed within atmosphere .
A reminiscent of Abdali missile which used similar system.
View attachment 381829
Shaheen-1 ditched that system and relied on liquid fired Vernier sideways rockets placed at the base of the RV bus. The missile used same warhead as original version.
Ditching mechanical means of maneuvering helped increased speed and reliability. But the system still used cropped delta fins for stability after entering the atmosphere. Which still meant lower speeds due to drag.

The Vernier liquid fuelled sideways firing motors on RV are used in all Shaheen series missiles. The presence of liquid fuel is One of the reasons why Pakistani ballistic missiles are not canistarized.

In 2004 Pakistan tested a new type of missile with much longer range than any previously tested Pakistani missile. The Shaheen-2 had a new type of warhead and new type of stages . It looked like an entirely new missile despite being named after an existing series of missiles.
Shaheen-2 was a major investment of R&D and financial resources. In 2005 US spy satellites counted at least 25 Shaheen-2 Launchers.
May be due to being a major investment, Pakistan made the most of it and deployed the missile in substantial numbers.
Shaheen-2 carried similar RV as it's predecessors, minus the fins. This was the first Pakistani ballistic missile without fins on the RV assembly. Indicating improvement in guidance and post boost attitude correction systems.
Shaheen-2 was also indicated higher re-entry speeds for the warhead as RV bus could make all the course corrections while in space and release the warhead at the edge of atmosphere, reducing drag and ensuring higher speeds all the way to detonation.
It took Pakistan another 8 years to test fire and field a new addition to Shaheen series. The Shaheen-1A was test fired in 2012. This missile had two version . The deployed or weaponised version used older Shaheen-1 motor body with a new elongated RV . The new RV seemed to have a propulsion of it's own , most probably liquid fuelled which also did the job of course correction system. The arrangement increased the range of Shaheem-1A over previous version the Shaheem-1. This deployed version is illusive and not many details or high resolution images are available to understand more about it. The system was paraded once on 23rd march 2015.
The other version of Shaheen-1A was the more photographed version which also is a test bed for a new Warhead. The new sleek warhead had a much smaller size , in fact 40% smaller than Shaheen -2 warhead. The warhead was test fired on Shaheen-1A test bed multiple times since 2012.
View attachment 381870
In the above picture deployed version is second last and test bed version is the last.
Three years later Pakistan tested the longest range Shaheen series the Shaheen -3 which used the same warhead which was test fired multiple times on Shahee-1A test bed version.
Shaheen-3 itself is an incremental upgrade of Shaheen-2 with 10cm widened stages for extra fuel and a third stage squeezed on the top utilizing the space available due to miniaturizing warhead and elongating the missile by 1-2 meters compared to shaheen-2.
The latest Pakistani ballistic missile the MIRV capable Ababeel-1 also uses the same warhead being tested since 2012 on Shageen-1A test bed . The first two stages are the already tested stages from Shaheen-3 . The third stage and the RV bus are new.

To summarise. Shaheen , Shaheen-1 and Shaheen-1A deployed version use the same warhead and same or similar stages.
Shaheen -2 was a new missile with new warhead and new types of stages.
Shaheen -3 uses upgraded stages of Shaheen-2.
Ababeel uses same first two stages as Shaheem-3.
Shaheen-1A test bed version, Shaheem-3 and Ababeel MIRV use the same miniaturised warhead.

That way only three types of warhead are being used on seven types of missiles.
Only two types of solid fuel stages are being used on seven types of missiles.

That's why Pakistani missiles are reliable, low cost and tests don't fail.



On the other hand all five types of Indian Agni series missiles are entirely different from each other.
Hence requiring 5 different types of warheads as in 5 different nuclear weapons design. 5 different types of manufacturing facilities and extensive testing of all 5.View attachment 381876

1. You're mistaken about the Shaheen-1A 'testbed' & 'deployed' versions. Its actually the other way around; the 'testbed' version (with the red-painted cone) is the one actually deployed. And the 'deployed' one (with camouflaged cone) was the testbed (though for different purposes), it was only tested once.

2. When it comes to solid fuel motors, other advancements besides the changes in length have taken place. Shaheen-3 has the same dia as Shaheen-2, but payload reduction & first stage length extension weren't the only reasons for the increase in range by upto 90%.

3. Wrong about the Agni series, both A1 & A2 deploy the same warhead. The RVs sure are a bit different though. Also, A1 uses the first stage of A2. Similarly, A4 & A5 share the same warhead. Again the RVs have slightly different cone shapes. Also A5 is built upon A3 (same dia motors). So please, do not underestimate people who are miles ahead in terms of technology development.
 
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1. You're mistaken about the Shaheen-1A 'testbed' & 'deployed' versions. Its actually the other way around; the 'testbed' version (with the red-painted cone) is the one actually deployed. And the 'deployed' one (with camouflaged cone) was the testbed (though for different purposes), it was only tested once.

2. When it comes to solid fuel motors, other advancements besides the changes in length have taken place. Shaheen-3 has the same dia as Shaheen-2, but payload reduction & first stage length extension weren't the only reasons for the increase in range by upto 90%.

3. Wrong about the Agni series, both A1 & A2 deploy the same warhead. The RVs sure are a bit different though. Also, A1 uses the first stage of A2. Similarly, A4 & A5 share the same warhead. Again the RVs have slightly different cone shapes. Also A5 is built upon A3 (same dia motors). So please, do not underestimate people who are miles ahead in terms of technology development.
Hi , I did not create the thread to glorify India. You like doing that as usual but i dont.
I created the thread to glorify Pakistani technology.
You can go to Indian section and sing songs of praise for them "Miles, centuries , galaxies ahead".

Now that I have done my rant I will write a detailed reply on inconsistencies between Indian missiles.
 
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Hi , I did not create the thread to glorify India. You like doing that as usual but i dont.
I created the thread to glorify Pakistani technology.
You can go to Indian section and sing songs of praise for them "Miles, centuries , galaxies ahead".

Now that I have done my rant I will write a detailed reply on inconsistencies between Indian missiles.
He ain't glorifying India, he is a respected member and is correcting your technical mistakes
 
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Hi , I did not create the thread to glorify India. You like doing that as usual but i dont.
I created the thread to glorify Pakistani technology.
You can go to Indian section and sing songs of praise for them "Miles, centuries , galaxies ahead".

Now that I have done my rant I will write a detailed reply on inconsistencies between Indian missiles.
Hi,
All five Agnis have entirely different dimensions so I cannot understand the basis of your claim of them using same stages or warheads.
Agni-1 is just 1 meter wide
Agni-2 is 1.3 meter wide
Agni-3 is 2 meters wide
Agni-4 is 1.4 meter wide
Agni-5 is 3 meters wide.

None of the missiles can share stages , looking at dimensions, and Sharing warheads is also extremely unlikely.
However the warheads of A-4 and A-5 seem to have similar dimensions, and may be the same.

A-3 and A-5 have same stage dimensions of 2 meters but these are entirely different animals.
A-3 uses Hot/cold gas injection on rocket exhaust for creating asymmetric thrust for creating turning momentum and uses it for steering.
picsart_02-12-01-01-25-jpg.376445

Here is an enhanced image of Agni-3 second stage and you can see the injection nozzle and non moving exhaust.
Agni-5 and Agni-4 have movable exhaust nozzle and true thrust vectoring.

So there you go. Agni 4 and 5 share thrust vectoring technology and may just may be the warheads too.
But other than that no Agni series missile shared anything else.
So all their missiles need separate tests and entire production likes of their own. Hence higher costs, longer times to deploy.
And I am not even going towards K series which see.s to be unitary warhead series which will each require a warhead design of it's own and again share nothing in between them.
 
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Hi , I did not create the thread to glorify India. You like doing that as usual but i dont.
I created the thread to glorify Pakistani technology.
You can go to Indian section and sing songs of praise for them "Miles, centuries , galaxies ahead".

Now that I have done my rant I will write a detailed reply on inconsistencies between Indian missiles.
please-shrink-your-ego-down-to-this-this-size-thumb.jpg

Hi,
All five Agnis have entirely different dimensions so I cannot understand the basis of your claim of them using same stages or warheads.
Agni-1 is just 1 meter wide
Agni-2 is 1.3 meter wide
Agni-3 is 2 meters wide
Agni-4 is 1.4 meter wide
Agni-5 is 3 meters wide.

None of the missiles can share stages , looking at dimensions, and Sharing warheads is also extremely unlikely.
However the warheads of A-4 and A-5 seem to have similar dimensions, and may be the same.

A-3 and A-5 have same stage dimensions of 2 meters but these are entirely different animals.
A-3 uses Hot/cold gas injection on rocket exhaust for creating asymmetric thrust for creating turning momentum and uses it for steering.
picsart_02-12-01-01-25-jpg.376445

Here is an enhanced image of Agni-3 second stage and you can see the injection nozzle and non moving exaust
A1 dia = 1.3m https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/agni-1/
The Agni-1 is a short-range, road/rail-mobile, solid propellant ballistic missile. Falling between the short-range and medium-range categories, it fills the gap between India’s Prithvi systems and the Agni-2. The Agni-1 uses only the first-stage motor of the Agni-2 platform.

A2 dia = 1.3m https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/agni-2/

Re-read your own post about A3 & A5 diameters, you are contradicting yourself.

Yep, A3 & A5 are 'entirely different animals', just like Shaheen-II & III.
 
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please-shrink-your-ego-down-to-this-this-size-thumb.jpg


A1 dia = 1.3m https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/agni-1/


A2 dia = 1.3m https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/agni-2/

Re-read your own post about A3 & A5 diameters, you are contradicting yourself.

Yep, A3 & A5 are 'entirely different animals', just like Shaheen-II & III.
No . A-1 and A-2 have different dia. I will post a visual comparison later.
No I am not contradicting myself. A-3 and A-5 use same diameter stages but entirely different steering mechanisms. Look at the pic I posted.
Shaheen-2 and 3 both use jet vanes.
 
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