The dark chapter:1971 tragedy

[VCheng]

I not propagating anything,please do not manipulate. I am simply making you realize to wake up and accept that this world is not U-topia .Do not expect things to be turned out to be favourable everytime especially when your nation has damn careless attitude.
At the same time,I am trying to pull you out of this hopelessness that we have terrible end.You always deny anything positive, show negative side and then claim that we are doomed(sher aya,sher aya analogy).You have closed your one eye and seeing only single side of coin while I am trying to sort out ways in such situation. You are rejecting every positive aspect while we are seeking positiveness even though in worse darkness.
(Yeh aap ki marzi hai k glass adha bhara dekhein ya adha khali hone per matum keratin )
Regards

Actually, it is together that we get a look at both sides of the coin. Otherwise, there is an imbalance.

The glass is always full. It is only the ratio of air to water that changes.

Now, getting back to the topic: I am not saying things are hopeless. I am saying that things are hopeless if we do not change, and there is a huge difference between the two. I am constantly on the lookout for any evidence that supports meaningful progress. My evaluations of any evidence are indeed harsh and blunt, for I do not wear any mental glasses, least of all any prescribed hue or color.

What's more, I could put up the parallels between present day Baluchistan and late 60s Bengal in the context of this thread and the OP, but I do not think it would go down well at all.

 

[Slav Defence]

Rated positive to this post....... Since the main author is you and the OP is @Slav Defence

Well written when looked from pakistani perspective......

But the conclusion caught me off guard....... It sounds like the entire blame is put on India for the mess created by Pakistan itself.....But I doubt there is any significant lesson to learnt, as the circumstance of East pakistan was very different from the current one.... Nevertheless every bad thing teach one something - Ie : What you should not be doing......

Bhai, I have tried in diluting them, since I knew that some good Indians might got hurt, anyways we didn't meant to hurt anyone's feeling or to attack or blame any country.

Actually, it is together that we get a look at both sides of the coin. Otherwise, there is an imbalance.

The glass is always full. It is only the ratio of air to water that changes.

Now, getting back to the topic: I am not saying things are hopeless. I am saying that things are hopeless if we do not change, and there is a huge difference between the two. I am constantly on the lookout for any evidence that supports meaningful progress. My evaluations of any evidence are indeed harsh and blunt, for I do not wear any mental glasses, least of all any prescribed hue or color.

What's more, I could put up the parallels between present day Baluchistan and late 60s Bengal in the context of this thread and the OP, but I do not think it would go down well at all.

Read your last four lines and compare with the earlier answer I gave you

@Slav Defence
I do not see any point of opening this thread. 1971-debacle has been discussed like a thousand times already on this forum and elsewhere. And the reasons for it have been outlined by you in the OP:


This was still not the last nail in the coffin for East Pakistan.


Yahya was behaving just like today's Egyptian General Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. Banning the most popular political party in Pakistan by the military happened to be the last nail in the coffin for East Pakistan.


Bhutto's party hasn't changed a bit since those good old propaganda days.


And then what? West Pakistanis would still not be able to speak or use this 'alien' language anyway.... Bengali was as alien for West Pakistanis as Urdu was alien for East Pakistanis. There was no need for 'two' national languages when neither could ever be used on the national level anyway.


The real hostility was socio-political and economic. Bengali language movement was only a part of the greater struggle.


And since the loss of East Pakistan, this new exploitive role has been taken over by Punjab. And then we wonder why Karachites, Balochis etc want to separate from Pakistan, blaming on Indian conspiracy.


Sheikh Mujeeb once said about newly developed capital of Pakistan, Islamabad: "Mujhe Iss Shehar Say Patson (Jute) Ki Khushboo Aai."


This is just loads of BS. Breaking up Pakistan would mean our nukes getting less secure as they might as well end up in the hands of anti-Indian terrorist groups. Why would India wish to destabilize Pakistan, a nuclear armed state, and then commit a national suicide?

1-Oh yes,there was-to recall Pakistanis of consequences in case if they repeat up same mistakes ,first of all.

2-Agreed.Added to that-Bhutto's party has surely more declined and corrupted as it was before. Atleast,Bhutto had clear vision at that time, to some extent he was also a part of bad politics as well(I advice you read the book:Bhutto k aakhri 101 din) .
However,recently PPP lack vision and is a cesspit of corruption, lead by zardari and bilwal (who wears superman cloths in Sindhi style and jumps like Justin Bieber)

3-I have already added in article (point J) and am repeating further, since Pakistani map was proposed, ML at that time should have renegotiated over proposed map and at least have to demand Muslim majority areas b/w east and west Pakistan to be strengthen geographically.Whether you accept or not, it was one main cause which was beginning of such apocalypse and it was obvious that Indians would be immediately taking benefit of such situation and will attempt to take benefit of situation.

4-Agreed.They put up blame to foreign forces every time b/c they want to escape away from this fact that they are the ones which are causing beginning to drift off themselves.

Regards

 

[Gufi]

You nailed the reason of East pakistan debacle..... But my point is If the above was true, You should not be blaming India.....

I wonder if we go and start a few Naxal militant camps on your side and fund them and send troops to train them how would it feel.

 

[OrionHunter]

I hope you guys like it, do give it a read a share your thoughts guy's. Any questions, do ask.

How come you haven't mentioned anything about the HAMOOD UR REHMAN COMMISSION REPORT of the Pakistani government? Do read it. It gives the complete gen of what went wrong in 1971, the lessons learnt and how to avoid a repeat. Here....

Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report

 

[Gufi]

Bhai, I have tried in diluting them, since I knew that some good Indians might got hurt, anyways we didn't meant to hurt anyone's feeling or to attack or blame any country.

Yes the ending which I wrote was quite a bit more direct, which @Slav Defence changed taking care to be polite.

I would like to know the panels thoughts on these questions, please.

It was my suggestion to not leave direct suggestions for people to actually understand what they read it will be obvious what needed to change. Slight hints have been given, we are not toddlers here who need spoon feeding, and the OP do not need to state everything.

Seriously. This is the same old thinking that has led down this disastrous path, gustaakhi maaf, Sir.

Well no actually, to actually admit there are problems is much better then some people are with their nation's issues.

Sir direct indian involvement in war started by March when idian troops in "lungis" were fighting Pak troops inside East Pakistan.

sir, how much could we have put. The ending was because we could not do justice to it in the real source. I used materials mostly from Indian sources so there was no crying later.

 

[Slav Defence]

Yes the ending which I wrote was quite a bit more direct, which @Slav Defence changed taking care to be polite.

It was my suggestion to not leave direct suggestions for people to actually understand what they read it will be obvious what needed to change. Slight hints have been given, we are not toddlers here who need spoon feeding, and the OP do not need to state everything.

Well no actually, to actually admit there are problems is much better then some people are with their nation's issues.

sir, how much could we have put. The ending was because we could not do justice to it in the real source. I used materials mostly from Indian sources so there was no crying later.

Still ,only I am left to be listing humiliation of some Indian posters, paying price of my politeness and ignorance.If somebody else would be op,then you won't be reading such comments.I try so much yo help built up this place,but well ah,forget it!
Regards

 

[VCheng]

Still ,only I am left to be listing humiliation of some Indian posters, paying price of my politeness and ignorance.If somebody else would be op,then you won't be reading such comments.I try so much yo help built up this place,but well ah,forget it!
Regards

Well, you can always look at how I am treated, and feel better instantly!

Anyway, the article is a good effort, and you and your team are to be commended for posting it.

 

[Gufi]

Still ,only I am left to be listing humiliation of some Indian posters, paying price of my politeness and ignorance.If somebody else would be op,then you won't be reading such comments.I try so much yo help built up this place,but well ah,forget it!

Pakistan needs to clarify her policy towards India and adopt similar tit-for-tat strategy since Indian intentions are clear towards Pakistan. A strong response needs to be developed and Pakistan must encounter Indian strategy before it is too late.

This is @Slav Defence version
this was the original
We can not trust India, nor can we expect any good to come out of their side towards any peaceful resolution. The man who forgets history is doomed to repeat it. Indians are our enemies, they are always finding weaknesses to exploit us, while showing a peaceful exterior at all times. They are a country with a devious, anti Pakistani government and military and they will try in all instances to break up in any way possible. Even the issues of East Pakistan were given fire by India, and now we see India trying the same in Baluchistan.

 

[VCheng]

We can not trust India, nor can we expect any good to come out of their side towards any peaceful resolution. The man who forgets history is doomed to repeat it. Indians are our enemies, they are always finding weaknesses to exploit us, while showing a peaceful exterior at all times. They are a country with a devious, anti Pakistani government and military and they will try in all instances to break up in any way possible. Even the issues of East Pakistan were given fire by India, and now we see India trying the same in Baluchistan.

Enemies, exploitation, devious? Monsieur, that is just the way international geopolitics always work. The only way to counter your perception of India and what it is or is not doing lies in playing the game better yourself.

 

[Slav Defence]

Well, you can always look at how I am treated, and feel better instantly!

Anyway, the article is a good effort, and you and your team are to be commended for posting it.

Sir,
Although off-topic,yet still I don't feel better by looking at others in pain or trouble.Instead,it greatly hurts me as well.Nobody has right to hate another person just because of difference of opinion
regards

 

[VCheng]

Sir,
Although off-topi,yet still I don't feel better by looking at others in pain or trouble.Instead,it greatly hurts me as well.Nobody has right to hate another person just because of difference of opinion
regards

Sir, you can go off topic, I cannot.

Would it be possible for you to draw parallels between what India did back then and is doing now with regards to Baluchistan, in your view, and how do you propose countering those actions, as you see them?

 

[Slav Defence]

Sir, you can go off topic, I cannot.

Would it be possible for you to draw parallels between what India did back then and is doing now with regards to Baluchistan, in your view, and how do you propose countering those actions, as you see them?

Look Sir,
First of all,we need clear reports of Indian insurgencies in Baluchistan,let it once become available,then will surely be able to make up a detailed report without any problem or hesitation.
P.S if anyone has that uncensored part,send me immediately.

Second,no matter what Indians are planning,if we are strong and united to the core,then no plan shall work.I can for now compare Baluchistan's situation to that of Bengal's and these are as follows:

East Pakistan(former):

1-Badly treated by civil regime
2-Had major differences with west Pakistan(ie linguistic,idealism etc)
3-Very much prone to Indian interference.
4-Insecurity
5-Misunderstandings


Present Baluchistan:

1-Ignored earlier by civil regime,but now army is focusing in such areas.
2-Had major differences,but it is very close,infact geographically a stronger part of Pakistan,so can be easily handled.
3-Now,very much challenging for Indians to interfere
4-Insecurity:needs to be treated with newer projects upon which in some areas such as KPK,government is working.
5-Misunderstandings, as usual,but can be handled for now and were handled when terrorists communication setups were destroyed and mullah radio was arrested and humiliated.

regards

 

[syedali73]

Look Sir,
First of all,we need clear reports of Indian insurgencies in Baluchistan,let it once become available,then will surely be able to make up a detailed report on basis of that without any problem or hesitation.
P.S if anyone has that uncensored part,send me immediately.

Second,no matter what Indians are planning,if we are strong and united to the core,then no plan shall work.I can for now compare Baluchistan's situation to that of Bengal's and these are as follows:

East Pakistan(former):

1-Badly treated by civil regime
2-Had major differences with west Pakistan(ie linguistic,idealism etc)
3-Very much prone to Indian interference.
4-Insecurity
5-Misunderstandings


Present Baluchistan:

1-Ignored earlier by civil regime,but now army is focusing in this areas.
2-Had major differences,but it is very close,infact geographically a stronger part of Pakistan,so can be easily handled.
3-Now,very much challenging for Indians to interfere
4-Insecurity:needs to be treated with newer projects upon which in some areas such as KPK,government is working.
5-Misunderstandings, as usual,but can be handled for now and were handled when terrorists communication setups were destroyed and mullah radio was arrested and humiliated.

regards

In-fact after 18th amendment and Balochistan government being run by nationalists themselves, they don't have much excuse to fight against the state hence insurgents are surrendering. Few important tings remained to be done:

1. Reinstatement of A areas: Areas with the presence of Police and not tribal chieftain's appointed levis.
2. Educating Baloch: This will not work by simply establishing more school and colleges but Army-run residential school and colleges that strictly maintain the standard of education.
3. Ensuring strong presence of Baloch youngsters in military and paramilitary and therefore Army-run residential school/colleges should act as nurseries.

 

[Star Wars]

Great read, Didn't expect the level of open mindedness in the forum. But yeah there were some convenient exclusions...

 

[Levina]

I hope you guys like it, do give it a read a share your thoughts guy's. Any questions, do ask.

@syedali73 ,@FaujHistorian ,@Icarus ,@scorpionx ,@jamahir ,@levina ,@Shamain ,@Akheilos ,@Armstrong ,@Irfan Baloch ,@Hyperion ,@Chinese-Dragon ,@IrbiS ,@Georgeclark ,@Jazzbot ,@Jungibaaz ,@DESERT FIGHTER ,@Desert Fox ,@waz ,@nair ,@SpArK ,@Arsalan,@MastanKhan,@Atanz ...................

Thanks for tagging me here lil bro!
The article took off with very interesting revelations, and it got me all agog as I found this article to be unlike the usual articles which 're about the 1971 war. Initially I found the article to be an honest take on the doomed relationship of west and east Pakistan; it really didnt make any sense to have part B of Pakistan lying across a rival country (part A being west Pak).
But somewhere down the lane, article went off track and brought India into picture, like a daily soap which adds raunchy scenes in its desperate attempt to gain TRP ratings. We all know that 1971 war was fought between Pakistan and India, and that both the countries had their hands in the cookie jar (which happens to be BD), you could have avoided taking the same jaded track.
I must say one of you has watered down the efforts of other two by coming up with juvenile lines like these...

We cannot trust India, nor can we expect any good to come out of their side towards any peaceful resolution

Indians are our enemies,

I still liked about 75-80% of this article's content.

Regards