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the comfortable muslims of yesteryears and the pious muslims of now

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Ghulam Ahmed Parvez

This guy was stopped by government of Pakistan from meeting Mao Zedong.

Jinnah appointed Parvez to edit a magazine, Talu-e-Islam. It was set-up to propagate the creation of a separate Muslim country and to also answer the attacks that Jinnah’s All India Muslim League had begun to face from conservative Islamic parties and ulema who accused the League of being a pseudo-Muslim organisation and Jinnah for being too westernised and ‘lacking correct Islamic behavior.’

A little reading of his (Parvez) work should give a clear idea of what Jinnah wanted of newly formed Pakistan, and whether he associated himself with any sect.

The clergy and conservative ulema have hijacked Islam.

They are agents of the rich people and promoters of uncontrolled Capitalism.

Socialism best enforces Qur’anic dictums on property, justice and distribution of wealth.

Don't know much about what socialism means for rest of the world. But Islamic world it had been foretold 1400+ years ago that Haman, Pharaoh and Qaroon (Karun) are enemies of humanity. i.e. Priests, Kings and capitalists.

Looking at Muslim world today the first impossible task is dissolution of sects and division, that is not possible as long as all of them follow blindly their spiritual and religious leaders (priests) and keep reading and adding (hear say) to the distorted history books.

Now coming to these recent socialist movements, nearly all of them involved violence and infighting, because none of them could understand or grip the concept properly. Infighting and killing each other is hardly Islamic (killing others is also not permitted, except the armies that are out to oppress humanity). Getting Makkah back wasn't violent. And assuming that Islam should be modified to be compatible with the modern concepts, one needs to understand that Islam is the source of all that benefits and helps humanity progress. So the thinking that religion should be practiced in private and has nothing to do with state, is also in contradiction with Islam. There are two laws, one divine (immutable) and other nature, humans are at liberty and freedom to exploit the law of nature and make best use of it, but that use and exploitation has to remain within bounds of Divine law.

Lol .... this time on Etihad I was witness to Muslim flirting.

Between a Palestinian guy and the airhostess. In Arabic.

I guess he asked her whether she was from Egypt.

She said "al arabiya" ...

Well, she was quite fine for al Arabiya.

Went on off and on through the flight.

@I.R.A @Oscar (you were speaking of flying peacocks on Etihad ....)

Cheers, Doc

Didn't get how this is related to this thread?
 
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This guy was stopped by government of Pakistan from meeting Mao Zedong.



A little reading of his (Parvez) work should give a clear idea of what Jinnah wanted of newly formed Pakistan, and whether he associated himself with any sect.



Don't know much about what socialism means for rest of the world. But Islamic world it had been foretold 1400+ years ago that Haman, Pharaoh and Qaroon (Karun) are enemies of humanity. i.e. Priests, Kings and capitalists.

Looking at Muslim world today the first impossible task is dissolution of sects and division, that is not possible as long as all of them follow blindly their spiritual and religious leaders (priests) and keep reading and adding (hear say) to the distorted history books.

Now coming to these recent socialist movements, nearly all of them involved violence and infighting, because none of them could understand or grip the concept properly. Infighting and killing each other is hardly Islamic (killing others is also not permitted, except the armies that are out to oppress humanity). Getting Makkah back wasn't violent. And assuming that Islam should be modified to be compatible with the modern concepts, one needs to understand that Islam is the source of all that benefits and helps humanity progress. So the thinking that religion should be practiced in private and has nothing to do with state, is also in contradiction with Islam. There are two laws, one divine (immutable) and other nature, humans are at liberty and freedom to exploit the law of nature and make best use of it, but that use and exploitation has to remain within bounds of Divine law.



Didn't get how this is related to this thread?

You are becoming a bit of a muscle bound cleric man.

Lighten up.

Cheers, Doc
 
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Hehe,,,u came back.
gud to see u here,,hw have u been?

I am good. Thanks for asking.

Any progress on tht clockless thingy u wanted to make?

The processor... Well, I intend to approach the government for its further development. I need funds to purchase a FPGA ( Field Programmable Gate Array ) to simulate the processor prototype. An FPGA, from the Xilinx company, costs 1+ lakh.

At present there are 12 instructions in the processor design and there will be more when the graphics subsystem is included.

Btw did u come to a conclusion,,i mean,,comfortable thn pious now?

Heh heh.

My idea is fixed on that, as before.

But I will ask @Dubious if she has changed her opinion about the title.

Sorry didnt read op:D

Yeah, it's lengthy. Take your time.
 
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I am good. Thanks for asking.



The processor... Well, I intend to approach the government for its further development. I need funds to purchase a FPGA ( Field Programmable Gate Array ) to simulate the processor prototype. An FPGA, from the Xilinx company, costs 1+ lakh.

At present there are 12 instructions in the processor design and there will be more when the graphics subsystem is included.



Heh heh.

My idea is fixed on that, as before.

But I will ask @Dubious if she has changed her opinion about the title.



Yeah, it's lengthy. Take your time.
Is Islamic socialism in any way similar to the socialism practiced in the Scandinavian countries? Almost everyone lives happily and with full pockets there.
 
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Is Islamic socialism in any way similar to the socialism practiced in the Scandinavian countries? Almost everyone lives happily and with full pockets there.

Firstly, some days ago I read on this forum, or elsewhere, that in Finland I think, the education system, or at least until school level, there is no system of exam marks, leading to no stress on the students, thus leading to more harmony in society. So that is one implementation of socialism.

Secondly, I don't know much else about Scandinavian socialism except that the workers are taxed heavily and from those taxes the welfare system is run. I can't decide at this point if this is an implementation of Socialism.

I will ask our Pakistani-Norwegian member, @Norwegian, to clarify on both points.
 
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Firstly, some days ago I read on this forum, or elsewhere, that in Finland I think, the education system, or at least until school level, there is no system of exam marks, leading to no stress on the students, thus leading to more harmony in society. So that is one implementation of socialism.

Secondly, I don't know much else about Scandinavian socialism except that the workers are taxed heavily and from those taxes the welfare system is run. I can't decide at this point if this is an implementation of Socialism.

I will ask our Pakistani-Norwegian member, @Norwegian, to clarify on both points.
How can you exactly run a welfare state without heavy taxes, as you suggest?
 
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How can you exactly run a welfare state without heavy taxes, as you suggest?

One way is being mostly self-sufficient in the material and human resources required to run a welfare system. The example is USSR. I think to an extent is also DPRK ( North Korea ).

Second way is earning economic resource to partially pay for importing human and material resources, by international sales of some commodity / material that the country produces. The example is oil sales by the Libyan Jamahiriya ( Libya until the 2011 invasion ).

Also, please read this thread of mine where I propose a new economic system. I think it can fit with either of the two ways above.
 
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@CatSultan, please read the OP ( long but necessary ) where Sharia is mentioned in context of Ghulam Ahmed Parvez, an Islamic scholar from undivided India and later of Pakistan. Essentially read the entire OP and the discussion.
 
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@Trango Towers, read these sections from the OP first and then read the discussion and then discussion :
During the same period (1920s-30s), another (though lesser known) Islamic scholar in undivided India got smitten by the 1917 Russian revolution and Marxism.

Hafiz Rahman Sihwarwl saw Islam and Marxism sharing five elements in common: (1) prohibition of the accumulation of wealth in the hands of the privileged classes (2) organisation of the economic structure of the state to ensure social welfare (3) equality of opportunity for all human beings (4) priority of collective social interest over individual privilege and (5) prevention of the permanentising of class structure through social revolution.

The motivations for many of these themes he drew from the Qur’an, which he understood as seeking to create an economic order in which the rich pay excessive, though voluntary taxes (Zakat) to minimise differences in living standards.

In the areas that Sihwarwl saw Islam and communism diverge were Islam’s sanction of private ownership within certain limits, and in its refusal to recognise an absolutely classless basis of society.

He suggested that Islam, with its prohibition of the accumulation of wealth, is able to control the class structure through equality of opportunity.

Basically, both Sindhi and Sihwarwl had stumbled upon an Islamic concept of the social democratic welfare state.

Building upon the initial thoughts of Sindhi and Sihwarwl were perhaps South Asia’s two most ardent and articulate supporters and theoreticians of Islamic Socilaism: Ghulam Ahmed Parvez and Dr. Khalifa Abdul Hakim.

Parvez was a prominent ‘Quranist’, or an Islamic scholar who insisted that for the Muslims to make progress in the modern world, Islamic thought and laws should be entirely based on the modern interpretations of the Qu’ran and on the complete rejection of the hadith (sayings of the Prophet and his companions based on hearsay and compiled over a 100 years after the Prophet’s demise).

After studying traditional Muslim texts, as well as Sufism, Parvez claimed that almost all hadiths were fabrications by those who wanted Islam to seem like an intolerant faith and by ancient Muslim kings who used these hadiths to give divine legitimacy to their tyrannical rules.

Parvez also insisted that Muslims should spend more time studying the modern sciences instead of wasting their energies on fighting out ancient sectarian conflicts or ignoring the true egalitarian and enlightening spirit of the Qu’ran by indulging in multiple rituals handed down to them by ancient ulema, clerics and compilers of the hadith.

Understandably, Parvez was right away attacked by conservative Islamic scholars and political outfits.

But this didn’t stop famous Muslim philosopher and poet, Muhammad Iqbal, to befriend the young scholar and then introduce him to the future founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

Jinnah appointed Parvez to edit a magazine, Talu-e-Islam. It was set-up to propagate the creation of a separate Muslim country and to also answer the attacks that Jinnah’s All India Muslim League had begun to face from conservative Islamic parties and ulema who accused the League of being a pseudo-Muslim organisation and Jinnah for being too westernised and ‘lacking correct Islamic behavior.’

Apart from continuing to author books and commentaries on the Qu’ran, Parvez wrote a series of articles in Talu-e-Islam that propagated a more socialistic view of the holy book.

In a series of essays for the magazine he used verses from the Qu’ran, incidents from the faith’s history and insights from the writings of Muhammad Iqbal to claim:

The clergy and conservative ulema have hijacked Islam.

They are agents of the rich people and promoters of uncontrolled Capitalism.

Socialism best enforces Qur’anic dictums on property, justice and distribution of wealth.

Islam’s main mission was the eradication of all injustices and cruelties from society. It was a socio-economic movement, and the Prophet was a leader seeking to put an end to the capitalist exploitation of the Quraysh merchants and the corrupt bureaucracy of Byzantium and Persia.

According to the Qur’an, Muslims have three main responsibilities: seeing, hearing and sensing through the agency of the mind. Consequently, real knowledge is based on empirically verifiable observation, or through the role of science.

Poverty is the punishment of God and deserved by those who ignore science.

In Muslim/Islamic societies, science, as well as agrarian reform should play leading roles in developing an industrialised economy.

A socialist path is a correction of the medieval distortion of Islam through Shari’a.
Roots and Trees
Though one can struggle to pinpoint the exact starting point (or points) from where the many ideas that became associated with Islamic Socialism emerged, historians and intellectuals, Sami A. Hanna and Hanif Ramay – who specialised in critiquing and compiling a dialectic history of Islamic Socialism – are of the view that one of the very first expressions of Islamic Socialism appeared in Russia in the late 19th and early 20th century.

A movement of Muslim farmers, peasants and petty-bourgeoisie in the Russian state of Tatartan opposed the Russian monarchy but was brutally crushed.

In the early 2oth century, the movement went underground and began working with communist, socialist and social democratic forces operating in Russia to overthrow the monarchy.

The leaders of the Muslim movement, that became to be known as the Waisi began explaining themselves as Islamic Socialists when a leftist revolution broke out against the Russian monarchy in 1906.

During the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution that finally toppled and eliminated the Russian monarchy and imposed communist rule in the country, the Waisi fell in with the Bolsheviks and supported Russian revolutionary leader, Vladimir Lenin’s widespread socialist program and policies.

However, after Lenin’s death in 1924, the Waisi began to assert that the Muslim community and its socialism in Tatartan were a separate entity from the Bolshevik communism.

The movement that had formed its own communes became a victim of Stalin’s radical purges of the 1930s and was wiped out.

One is not quite sure how the Waisi defined their socialism in a country where (after 1917) atheism had become the state-enforced creed. It was left to a group of influential thinkers and ideologues in South Asia and the Middle East to finally get down to giving a more coherent and doctrinal shape to Islamic Socialism.

Islamic scholar, Ubaidullah Sindhi, who was born into a Sikh family (in Sialkot but converted to Islam), was also an agitator against the British in India.

Chased by the authorities during the First World War, Sindhi escaped to Kabul, and from Kabul he traveled to Russia where he witnessed the unfolding of the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution.

He stayed in Russia till 1923 and spent most of his time discussing politics and ideology with communist revolutionaries and studying socialism.

Impressed by the chants of economic equality and justice during the violent revolution, Sindhi, who remained being a Deobandi Sunni Muslim, dismissed communism/Marxism’s emphasis on atheism.

From Russia Sindhi traveled to Turkey and it was from Istanbul that he began to give shape to his ideas of Islamic Socialism through a series of writings especially aimed at the Muslims of India.

He urged Muslims ‘to evolve for themselves a religious basis to arrive at the economic justice at which communism aims but which it cannot fully achieve.’

The reason he gave for this was that though he saw both Islamic and Communist economic philosophies similar regarding their emphasis on the fair distribution of wealth, socialism if imposed with the help of a more theistic and spiritual dimension would be more beneficial to the peasant and the working classes than atheistic communism.
 
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You have time...indont. Good reading. Enjoy

Yes, you are another busy member of PDF ( the second this evening ) who is involved in political revolutionary activism or involved in the developing of a settlement on Mars which will be ready by 2024. My regards. :rolleyes:
 
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Yes, you are another busy member of PDF ( the second this evening ) who is involved in political revolutionary activism or involved in the developing of a settlement on Mars which will be ready by 2024. My regards. :rolleyes:
And you are a bullshitter who is telling people don't use the word dalit and then moments later call then davits..
What are you doing? Oh benefits babu

@Mujahid Memon, in the meanwhile read post# 71 and then the thread from the beginning.
Need help...can't fight your own corner?
 
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