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The Chinese are coming…

Helicopters-from-the-Chinese-Peoples-Liberation-Army-PLA-air-force-fly-in-formation-during-a-massive-parade-to-celebrate-the-60th-anniversary-of-the-founding-of-the-Peoples-Republic-of-China-in-Beijing-October-1-2009.-REUTE-650x429.jpg



By Bharat Verma
Issue Vol. 28.2
Apr-Jun 2013 | Date : 28 Aug , 2013


After the Mughals and the British, it now appears to be China’s turn to encircle, enslave and make India a surrogate power. Apparently, China firmly believes that two tigers cannot live on the same mountain.

Pacifism may be good for the individual’s soul but it is suicidal for a nation’s security. With the advent of Buddhism, Tibet, wallowing in pacifism, lost its freedom. Yet South Block refuses to learn. Nehru was too petrified to come to the rescue of a small nation like Tibet. Nepal realized this and as insurance, opened up communication channels with China. The total collapse of India’s foreign policy saw Kathmandu exit our sphere of influence and become a vassal state of China. Bhutan will soon follow suit as it watches a helpless India unable to protect itself.

Under the weight of its collective incompetence, New Delhi continues to fiddle while Beijing unleashes a creeping invasion. The Chinese grand design envisions India as a surrogate power in Asia led by Beijing. However, the ****** in the Chinese armour are Tibet and Sinkiang. Despite the extraordinary infrastructure developed and the ability to induct multiple military divisions in Tibet, Beijing faces a rebellion, a wound that continues to fester.Owing to the extraordinary incompetence of the Indian Defence Minister, the modernization of the Indian armed forces unfortunately is stuck in a groove for the last decade.

Help of Western technology and India’s belated move to upgrade infrastructure in the North-east are points of major concern for China. Very few may have noticed that every time India moved closer to the United States, Beijing was upset and it successfully unleashed its lobby in India to counter this. Controlled media in Beijing vehemently criticized when the French Rafale was chosen by India for the Indian Air Force, terming France as ‘irresponsible’! Rapid induction of far superior Western technology into the Indian military and denied to the Dragon will upset the balance of power enjoyed by China in Tibet which the former is even today unable to fully integrate with the mainland. This ***** in China’s armour needs to be exploited.

With Japan, Taiwan and others fortified by a commitment by the US for protection against China’s foray in South China Sea disputes, Beijing is likely to make noises but will, for multiple reasons, concentrate militarily on the softest target available, the Indo-Tibet border. First, Beijing’s assessment that the leadership in New Delhi is extremely weak and will not be able to respond to any developing crises is accurate. Second, the Chinese who minutely monitor all internal developments within India are aware of the deficiencies in manpower and the equipment within the military.

They are witness to the veterans returning their medals in disgust to the President. Like Nehru, bereft of pragmatism, the political masters have simply not equipped the military with adequate lethality. Third, and possibly the most important consideration is that with the withdrawal of the American forces from Afghanistan, the strategic vacuum needs to be filled. Therefore, it is intelligent to not only keep India away from Afghanistan but also acquire as much territory as possible without firing a single shot in the Eastern Sector.

The weak-kneed Indian leadership, ill-equipped military, internal turmoil and China’s intention to occupy with the help of Pakistan military, the empty strategic space, aids its grand design.
By hiding hundreds of incursions into the Indian Territory from the people, the government has encouraged China to intrude 19 km inside in the DBO area enlarging its claims in Eastern Ladakh. China insists on changing the ground rules here as it supports Pakistan’s claim on J&K and calls it a disputed territory.

This deep intrusion helps it prevent India playing the Gilgit-Baltistan and the *** card where, in connivance with Islamabad, PLA is involved in pacifying the area under the garb of construction activities to the advantage of its proxy India will need robust minds and not pacifists, who lose the battle in their minds even before it begins, to work out a counter plan against China and China-Pakistan combine to foil their attempts to illegally occupy our territory with an aim to dismember India.

It will require a strong national leadership and induction of military thinking in the foreign office. The propaganda by the pacifists and the Chinese lobby, that since we are militarily not prepared, we need to concede our territory and self-respect, is not true. Nation’s have won with much less with the backing of firm resolve and strong generals, both political and military. Despite the temporary reprieve and face-saving provided by withdrawal from DBO by the Chinese to India in view of the visit of their Prime Minister, the incursions and land grabbing will continue.


The Indian game plan, therefore, should be based on the following:

>The rebellion in Tibet for independence must be provided with ‘moral support’. India also needs to revisit Dalai Lama’s government-in-exile, which is quietly supported by the Western Alliance.

>Since China and Pakistan have joined forces against India, we should extend ‘moral support’ in Gilgit-Baltistan, *** and Balochistan. If Balochistan becomes independent, the Gwadar port will not be available to China causing a huge setback.

>India has trivialized the term ‘strategic partnership’ by signing it with all and sundry. It is in India’s interest to invest in strategic partnerships with Asian countries such as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Vietnam as also to create decisive political, military and economic relationship with the USA and the Western Alliance. The balance of power should remain in India’s favour.

>It is important to appreciate that China and Pakistan are the only two countries that lay claim on huge chunks of Indian territory. Both are authoritarian regimes that conflict with our liberal values. Despite every effort at appeasement by New Delhi, they will endeavour to weaken our democratic structure.

>Our investment in Afghanistan should not be wasted as the Americans withdraw. Alone and with international support (including Russia), India should extend ‘moral support’ to the Afghans and disallow the Taliban to take over with the help of Pakistan’s ISI.

>Diversify economic interest away from dependence on Chinese goods by creating business-friendly environment for Japan, South Korea and the Western Alliance. The Chinese economy is slowing down and their need for the vast Indian market is huge. This is an interesting card in our arsenal.

>Sprucing up the military and intelligence capabilities of India on a war-footing is vital since we face two naturally hostile fronts. Initially, quick imports of basic weapon systems are a necessity as it is not possible for a temporary compromise with national security as suggested by many analysts. In the long term, invite technology transfer under joint ventures in private sectors with enhanced FDI of 49 per cent to create modern defence production facilities in the country.

>For a long time Indians and Chinese have, on the ground, been in possession of areas along LAC and China did not pose major objections. Cleverly after building the infrastructure and the military wherewithal, it started flexing its muscle by enlarging its claim in Eastern Ladakh by the 19 km incursion in the DBO sector. The claim by the Chinese lobby in India that they can induct 30 divisions against us makes them look like a ‘superman’. The truth is that they need acclimatization of these troops for high altitude, which is time consuming and nullifies the element of surprise. On the other hand, India can build troop levels faster as it already has a functional Corps headquarters in place.

>At the local level, incursions by Chinese troops must be stopped immediately and under the prevailing confusion of demarcation of LAC, our military should intervene and create similar incursions on the Chinese side. This should be the Standard Operating Procedure.
Otherwise New Delhi will lose the plot, territory and enormous self respect.


Chinese are coming
 
Looks like this Indian is desperate trying to divert the India economy soon collapse with his fantasy story. :D

Indian are real desperate!

India is trapped!

It exported terrorism in Sri Lanka, in E.Pakistan, in Afghanistan, in Pakistan and in China. What can only be described as a 'shooting one's own foot policy' - India has successfully alienated itself from its neighbours by winning their mistrust.

None of these nations are going to stand up with India, in case of a war with China and Pakistan. Once we succeed in stabilizing Afghanistan - India will be contained for good. Afghanistan is the final, major piece left in the puzzle. Pakistan and China will be the ones calling the shots in S.Asia with Sri Lanka, Bangladesh,Nepal and Afghanistan as their friends and partners.
 
Looks like this Indian is desperate trying to divert the India economy soon collapse with his fantasy story. :D

Indian are real desperate!


Seriously, a article from Zaid Hamid type of guy and you came to the conclusion that we are desperate?
 
The Chinese are coming…

Helicopters-from-the-Chinese-Peoples-Liberation-Army-PLA-air-force-fly-in-formation-during-a-massive-parade-to-celebrate-the-60th-anniversary-of-the-founding-of-the-Peoples-Republic-of-China-in-Beijing-October-1-2009.-REUTE-650x429.jpg



By Bharat Verma
Issue Vol. 28.2
Apr-Jun 2013 | Date : 28 Aug , 2013


After the Mughals and the British, it now appears to be China’s turn to encircle, enslave and make India a surrogate power. Apparently, China firmly believes that two tigers cannot live on the same mountain.

Pacifism may be good for the individual’s soul but it is suicidal for a nation’s security. With the advent of Buddhism, Tibet, wallowing in pacifism, lost its freedom. Yet South Block refuses to learn. Nehru was too petrified to come to the rescue of a small nation like Tibet. Nepal realized this and as insurance, opened up communication channels with China. The total collapse of India’s foreign policy saw Kathmandu exit our sphere of influence and become a vassal state of China. Bhutan will soon follow suit as it watches a helpless India unable to protect itself.

Under the weight of its collective incompetence, New Delhi continues to fiddle while Beijing unleashes a creeping invasion. The Chinese grand design envisions India as a surrogate power in Asia led by Beijing. However, the ****** in the Chinese armour are Tibet and Sinkiang. Despite the extraordinary infrastructure developed and the ability to induct multiple military divisions in Tibet, Beijing faces a rebellion, a wound that continues to fester.Owing to the extraordinary incompetence of the Indian Defence Minister, the modernization of the Indian armed forces unfortunately is stuck in a groove for the last decade.

Help of Western technology and India’s belated move to upgrade infrastructure in the North-east are points of major concern for China. Very few may have noticed that every time India moved closer to the United States, Beijing was upset and it successfully unleashed its lobby in India to counter this. Controlled media in Beijing vehemently criticized when the French Rafale was chosen by India for the Indian Air Force, terming France as ‘irresponsible’! Rapid induction of far superior Western technology into the Indian military and denied to the Dragon will upset the balance of power enjoyed by China in Tibet which the former is even today unable to fully integrate with the mainland. This ***** in China’s armour needs to be exploited.

With Japan, Taiwan and others fortified by a commitment by the US for protection against China’s foray in South China Sea disputes, Beijing is likely to make noises but will, for multiple reasons, concentrate militarily on the softest target available, the Indo-Tibet border. First, Beijing’s assessment that the leadership in New Delhi is extremely weak and will not be able to respond to any developing crises is accurate. Second, the Chinese who minutely monitor all internal developments within India are aware of the deficiencies in manpower and the equipment within the military.

They are witness to the veterans returning their medals in disgust to the President. Like Nehru, bereft of pragmatism, the political masters have simply not equipped the military with adequate lethality. Third, and possibly the most important consideration is that with the withdrawal of the American forces from Afghanistan, the strategic vacuum needs to be filled. Therefore, it is intelligent to not only keep India away from Afghanistan but also acquire as much territory as possible without firing a single shot in the Eastern Sector.

The weak-kneed Indian leadership, ill-equipped military, internal turmoil and China’s intention to occupy with the help of Pakistan military, the empty strategic space, aids its grand design.
By hiding hundreds of incursions into the Indian Territory from the people, the government has encouraged China to intrude 19 km inside in the DBO area enlarging its claims in Eastern Ladakh. China insists on changing the ground rules here as it supports Pakistan’s claim on J&K and calls it a disputed territory.

This deep intrusion helps it prevent India playing the Gilgit-Baltistan and the *** card where, in connivance with Islamabad, PLA is involved in pacifying the area under the garb of construction activities to the advantage of its proxy India will need robust minds and not pacifists, who lose the battle in their minds even before it begins, to work out a counter plan against China and China-Pakistan combine to foil their attempts to illegally occupy our territory with an aim to dismember India.

It will require a strong national leadership and induction of military thinking in the foreign office. The propaganda by the pacifists and the Chinese lobby, that since we are militarily not prepared, we need to concede our territory and self-respect, is not true. Nation’s have won with much less with the backing of firm resolve and strong generals, both political and military. Despite the temporary reprieve and face-saving provided by withdrawal from DBO by the Chinese to India in view of the visit of their Prime Minister, the incursions and land grabbing will continue.


The Indian game plan, therefore, should be based on the following:

>The rebellion in Tibet for independence must be provided with ‘moral support’. India also needs to revisit Dalai Lama’s government-in-exile, which is quietly supported by the Western Alliance.

>Since China and Pakistan have joined forces against India, we should extend ‘moral support’ in Gilgit-Baltistan, *** and Balochistan. If Balochistan becomes independent, the Gwadar port will not be available to China causing a huge setback.

>India has trivialized the term ‘strategic partnership’ by signing it with all and sundry. It is in India’s interest to invest in strategic partnerships with Asian countries such as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Vietnam as also to create decisive political, military and economic relationship with the USA and the Western Alliance. The balance of power should remain in India’s favour.

>It is important to appreciate that China and Pakistan are the only two countries that lay claim on huge chunks of Indian territory. Both are authoritarian regimes that conflict with our liberal values. Despite every effort at appeasement by New Delhi, they will endeavour to weaken our democratic structure.

>Our investment in Afghanistan should not be wasted as the Americans withdraw. Alone and with international support (including Russia), India should extend ‘moral support’ to the Afghans and disallow the Taliban to take over with the help of Pakistan’s ISI.

>Diversify economic interest away from dependence on Chinese goods by creating business-friendly environment for Japan, South Korea and the Western Alliance. The Chinese economy is slowing down and their need for the vast Indian market is huge. This is an interesting card in our arsenal.

>Sprucing up the military and intelligence capabilities of India on a war-footing is vital since we face two naturally hostile fronts. Initially, quick imports of basic weapon systems are a necessity as it is not possible for a temporary compromise with national security as suggested by many analysts. In the long term, invite technology transfer under joint ventures in private sectors with enhanced FDI of 49 per cent to create modern defence production facilities in the country.

>For a long time Indians and Chinese have, on the ground, been in possession of areas along LAC and China did not pose major objections. Cleverly after building the infrastructure and the military wherewithal, it started flexing its muscle by enlarging its claim in Eastern Ladakh by the 19 km incursion in the DBO sector. The claim by the Chinese lobby in India that they can induct 30 divisions against us makes them look like a ‘superman’. The truth is that they need acclimatization of these troops for high altitude, which is time consuming and nullifies the element of surprise. On the other hand, India can build troop levels faster as it already has a functional Corps headquarters in place.

>At the local level, incursions by Chinese troops must be stopped immediately and under the prevailing confusion of demarcation of LAC, our military should intervene and create similar incursions on the Chinese side. This should be the Standard Operating Procedure.
Otherwise New Delhi will lose the plot, territory and enormous self respect.


Chinese are coming

Off course China is coming and they would love to encircle India I wouldn't be surprised to do that if Pakistan gets lot of free weapons or at half price and also the kind of attitude Indian government and people are showing towards Bangladesh I wouldn't be surprised if they also turn enemy of India
 
India is trapped!

It exported terrorism in Sri Lanka, in E.Pakistan, in Afghanistan, in Pakistan and in China. What can only be described as a 'shooting one's own foot policy' - India has successfully alienated itself from its neighbours by winning their mistrust.

Please tell me how and when we exported terrorism of China? And about E.Pakistan, the lesser we say the better and are you seriously implying that we are the reason behind Afghanistan terrorist activities?? Taliban was whose brain child? pray tell me.. Your ability of twisting the history is amazing Aero..

None of these nations are going to stand up with India, in case of a war with China and Pakistan. Once we succeed in stabilizing Afghanistan - India will be contained for good. Afghanistan is the final, major piece left in the puzzle.


Apart from China and Pakistan, we have relatively good relation with other countries.. Do not judge the nations with the posters posting here.. Most of those countries will remain neutral.. They are not suicidal enough to jump into other country's war like your country..Yes sharing border with those nations we have some issues, but its not big enough to follow your lead to a war.. And for us, we do not need their help on a war.. They staying neutral is fine with us..
 
@Aeronaut,

The problem with the Chinese is that they, I don't know why, always underestimate others' strengths. They have a twisted superiority complex which makes them perceive others weaker than the Chinese.

No wise person, if any wisdom is left inside his skull, underestimates his enemy. The moment you underestimate your opponent, you must know you are going to lose the war in the end.

In this aspect, I find the Americans wiser than anyone. See them, they know how much powerful their are, still they never underestimate the Chinese or Russians. They don't even underestimate the Iranians or North Koreans.

Siraj underestimated the British forces. But Robert Clive didn't underestimate Siraj even after the latter had fled away from Alinagar/Calcutta to Murshidabad. In the end, victorious Robert Clive took the dead body of the Nawab from back to Murshidabad and paraded it on a back of an elephant.

One need to learn lessons from history. Indian army never underestimates PLA and this is why I think India won't be a loser. Once you underestimate your enemy, you start digging your own grave. India is not as much weak, in terms of military, as the Chinese tend to believe.

As for Tibet, you wait and see, India is not sitting idle.
 
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A true friend does not flatter you.

A true friend criticizes you.

So that you can correct your mistakes.

When one criticizes you, you must know why he is doing that.

He cares!
 
thats relative isnt it? for you india bashing posts seems to be high quality

Learn to take criticism. This is why we call this place 'Senior's Cafe' - only calm heads here for learning are allowed in this place.

Please tell me how and when we exported terrorism of China? And about E.Pakistan, the lesser we say the better and are you seriously implying that we are the reason behind Afghanistan terrorist activities?? Taliban was whose brain child? pray tell me.. Your ability of twisting the history is amazing Aero..




Apart from China and Pakistan, we have relatively good relation with other countries.. Do not judge the nations with the posters posting here.. Most of those countries will remain neutral.. They are not suicidal enough to jump into other country's war like your country..Yes sharing border with those nations we have some issues, but its not big enough to follow your lead to a war.. And for us, we do not need their help on a war.. They staying neutral is fine with us..


LTTE - Mukhti Bahini - Northern Alliance - Tibetans - BLA - TTP were/are not supported by aliens from the mars. The article itself depicts the illicit Indian mindset towards the stability of its neighbours. Its your chicken that is about to come back to roost, just give it a few more years.
 
LTTE - Mukhti Bahini - Northern Alliance - Tibetans - BLA - TTP were/are not supported by aliens from the mars. The article itself depicts the illicit Indian mindset towards the stability of its neighbours. Its your chicken that is about to come back to roost, just give it a few more years.

The chicken is coming home to roost indeed. And it won't even be our doing.

How many millions of young people are coming into the Indian job market every year, only to find there are no jobs available?

Considering India's demographic youth bulge they need at least 8% economic growth each year, to provide jobs to all the young people entering the job market every year. They can't do this, which is why unemployment is soaring. Inflation too.

What happens when unemployed youths are concentrated in areas like cities? We have already seen some of it, but the worst is yet to come.

Indians were laughing at the social problems in China, now just wait until they reach our stage of development. They'll have all the problems we had, but multiplied by a thousand, because they can't emulate our growth rates and thus can't create enough jobs.
 
@Aeronaut
I have my personal views and opinion on things, some my like it , some might not, some will rubbish it as conspiracy theory.

In August 2012, an Organization named as OPSEC Team released a video Dishonorable Disclosures, I shared it on the forum - and it was my first post on the forum. This Particular video had views of former CIA officials & SF operators, and they were highly critique of his actions jeopardizing the Operational Security. In fact in the same year a book "Leading from behind" on Obama was published. It had the same views that how Obama was lacking the qualities of a true leader and how he hid himself behind others in May 2011 raid. The Public opinion on both of these were same - they blamed obama for leaving US defenceless and killing its Soliders. The interesting thing here was - Obama was in Election year.

When I read this write up and anything related to LoC violations , i think of the same - its an election year, expect the same from such Defence reviews, as their motive is to manipulate the public opinion.

Moving on further, I have this thought in one corner of my mind - may be someone with more knowledge can elaborate that,
Post 9/11 the situation was Pakistan Military could not afford a friendship with India, as they needed the higer Defence budget to support itself & the proxy wars, same could be said India.
However now we are looking down a decade further - the situation is completely changed.
Pakistan Military still has enough reasons to keep its budget high as we have enough mess of our own to clean up , even if We come to terms with India, BUT does Indian Military has enough reasons to maintain its defence budget and keep its military might , at the same pace as it is doing now?
Once we come to terms with India, they could be pushed for coming to terms with China too, so what will IA going to do with all this peace?
Don't forget as it has been highlighted in the report above that India will be more focused on Afghan- that means investing more in Afghanistan. And the way things are going for India;s economy, will they be able to sustain either side for long?

Whats in it for Pakistan?

Pakistan needs to sit this one down, they have been given a chance, a pause in timeline to clean up its own house.
The time we are left with is long enough to gather ourself. We need to strengthen our insititutes - from top to bottom. We need to clean up the house from terrorism. So that by the time India comes back to its senses we should be able to counter them in an approperiate manner.
 
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LTTE - Mukhti Bahini - Northern Alliance - Tibetans - BLA - TTP were/are not supported by aliens from the mars. The article itself depicts the illicit Indian mindset towards the stability of its neighbours. Its your chicken that is about to come back to roost, just give it a few more years.

Tibetans?? seriously?? Please give me the list of terrorist attacks they have done?? And about BLA-TTP, apart from loud noises here, we did not hear any concrete evidence of support.. None of our charity workers called for Jihad and send people there.. The quote about chicken coming back to roost will be well suited to your country's problem regarding BLA-TTP.. You created a monster to control Afghanistan and the same ideologies you taught them is biting back. You cant blame us for that.. I can agree with LTTE, Mukhtibahini .. Both are our creation.. One bite us back and we rectified the issue.. As for Muktibahini, you cannot blame it on us only.. Your own doings created it and we just utilized it... If this article depicts the illicit Indian mindset towards the stability of its neighbors then we will have to see through the eyes of Zaid Hamid about how you guys look at us Indians.. As I said, India is no where near being in a trap as you imagined and those neighbors who you think help you wont help you when it matters..

@Aeronaut: Approve my post :angel:
 
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@<u><a href="http://www.defence.pk/forums/member.php?u=15719" target="_blank">Aeronaut</a></u>,

The problem with the Chinese is that they, I don't know why, always underestimate others' strengths. They have a twisted superiority complex which makes them perceive others weaker than the Chinese.

No wise person, if any wisdom is left inside his skull, underestimates his enemy. The moment you underestimate your opponent, you must know you are going to lose the war in the end.

In this aspect, I find the Americans wiser than anyone. See them, they know how much powerful their are, still they never underestimate the Chinese or Russians. They don't even underestimate the Iranians or North Koreans.

Siraj underestimated the British forces. But Robert Clive didn't underestimate Siraj even after the latter had fled away from Alinagar/Calcutta to Murshidabad. In the end, victorious Robert Clive took the dead body of the Nawab from back to Murshidabad and paraded it on a back of an elephant.

One need to learn lessons from history. Indian army never underestimates PLA and this is why I think India won't be a loser. Once you underestimate your enemy, you start digging your own grave. India is not as much weak, in terms of military, as the Chinese tend to believe.

What you describe exactly sounds like Indian mentality....

If Chinese underestimate the enemy, she will never climb up to her current status. And Why India flatter with her economy is becos her eye sight is so high riding on the high horse that she trip and fall.

Chinese never underestimate Indian. Becos Indian indeed is in that level. :D

Let me show you the typical bragging by India when they are not even the same level as Chinese.



Remember PM Singh say Mumbai will overtake Shanghai in 2009? Now what? :D
 
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