Terrorist takes Australian cafe customers hostage:

[Falcon29]

Bro
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Sorry if that sounded freakish but it is what it is. That is not the Star of David right there, that is the Islamic Shahada.

I understand bro, it's a piece of cloth. Anyone can hide behind it. Of course we suspect these hostage takers to be Muslim. But, we don't know motives yet. If it's related to political issues or not. Either way it is despicable crime. Me and you being loud about that won't change peoples perspectives. There are people who already decided, they don't care that you condemn these acts. Some people have agendas and ideological beliefs. Try not attributing to Muslims, we should act just as anyone else regarding these isolated incidents.

However, I personally am suspecting these to be converts. Because it is common with Salafi, socially isolated people to have weird and extreme beliefs. And these people have psychological issues. It is very obvious, if you look at their forums you can't reason with them. It's not because they aren't moderate but because they're self-centered and think they are higher than everyone else. First ones being other Muslims, they even accuse other AQ branches of blasphemey and so forth. They are deluded. And nobody should encourage their views.

Advancing a "potential political agenda" by using a flag with Shahada on it and taking numerous civilians hostages? It is outright terrorism, and has absolutely nothing political about it. May be not Abbot himself, but Australia will face the consequences for going lenient about it.

You must not have seen the size of rallies carried out by Hizb ut Tehrir after the police raids. Authorities went apologetic even for doing the right thing, and this is the result of that. They go lenient now, and it will only get worse. And for you my dear, it will not bring as much harm to Australia or non-Muslims, as it will to all the Muslims around the world. For once, open your eyes and see what is right and what is wrong.

Again, we don't know motives of individuals. They are classified by law as criminals. And if found that they have political motives then they would be domestic terrorists. Having a flag means nothing to average educated person. You're making it bigger than it is. I did not hear about any rallies.

 

[TankMan]

The three ambassadors were our heroes.

I apologize for my ignorance of that incident.

 

[Crypto]

Waiting for the snipers to put one between their eyes. F*** nut jobs.

 

[TankMan]

Me and you being loud about that won't change peoples perspectives. There are people who already decided, they don't care that you condemn these acts. Some people have agendas and ideological beliefs. Try not attributing to Muslims, we should act just as anyone else regarding these isolated incidents.

I understand your point of view here but lets not forget that there are many people who are ignorant and not decided, we should at the very least try to show those people that we do not support this kind of stuff.
Not attributing to Muslims doesn't help when they're waving a huge flag that says ''we're Muslims doing this in the name of our corrupted version of Islam''

However, I personally am suspecting these to be converts. Because it is common with Salafi, socially isolated people to have weird and extreme beliefs. And these people have psychological issues. It is very obvious, if you look at their forums you can't reason with them. It's not because they aren't moderate but because they're self-centered and think they are higher than everyone else. First ones being other Muslims, they even accuse other AQ branches of blasphemey and so forth. They are deluded. And nobody should encourage their views.

I wouldn't say it has anything to do with Salafism, there are plenty of Hanafis- Deobandis/Barelvis - that are involved in these kinds of things too.
I am personally a Salafi - even though I refuse to identify with any of the sects (Salafi, Ahle Hadees etc) because that too is forbidden in the Quran, I am still categorized as a Salafi and I know for a fact that Salafism, as a methodology or school of thought, has nothing that makes it more vulnerable to extremism or 'terrorification'. But of course, if you listen to extremist Imams etc, you'll get plenty of extremism.

Otherwise, I agree with you - probably converts, definitely deluded, definitely condemnable.

 

[Not Sure]

Again, we don't know motives of individuals. They are classified by law as criminals. And if found that they have political motives then they would be domestic terrorists. Having a flag means nothing to average educated person. You're making it bigger than it is. I did not hear about any rallies.

You do not know how things are developing down there. It's not a support for ISIS, or some political stunt, they are motivated by Hizb ut Tehrir, and you will see that's what the investigators too will find out.

 

[Falcon29]

According to initial reports there is only one suspect. He is no different than lone school/theater shooters who want to take out life's troubles on innocent people. Mentally weak people aren't capable of dealing with depression or social awkwardness. They need to grow stronger and tackle their obstacles in order to improve their social life. It can be done, they shouldn't give up and take this path.

I understand your point of view here but lets not forget that there are many people who are ignorant and not decided, we should at the very least try to show those people that we do not support this kind of stuff.
Not attributing to Muslims doesn't help when they're waving a huge flag that says ''we're Muslims doing this in the name of our corrupted version of Islam''

I wouldn't say it has anything to do with Salafism, there are plenty of Hanafis- Deobandis/Barelvis - that are involved in these kinds of things too.
I am personally a Salafi - even though I refuse to identify with any of the sects (Salafi, Ahle Hadees etc) because that too is forbidden in the Quran, I am still categorized as a Salafi and I know for a fact that Salafism, as a methodology or school of thought, has nothing that makes it more vulnerable to extremism or 'terrorification'. But of course, if you listen to extremist Imams etc, you'll get plenty of extremism.

Otherwise, I agree with you - probably converts, definitely deluded, definitely condemnable.

I agree with you, although I find some Salafi's in the West to be very ignorant. In Arab nations for example they are normal, bright people. In the West many are converts but also people who sought Islam as a way to deal with social awkwardness which made them megalomaniacs and form extreme views. Which aren't about religion,extreme views are extreme views. It seems some people don't understand basic terminology and associate it with religion. With modern day technology and popular lifestyle some find it hard to fit in which is why we have increasing rates of depression with people around the world. And their coping mechanisms are factor, some cope by trying to find people similiar to them. Some take suicidal measures.

You do not know how things are developing down there. It's not a support for ISIS, or some political stunt, they are motivated by Hizb ut Tehrir, and you will see that's what the investigators too will find out.

I have seen no reports to suggest that.

 

[sree45]

Any causalities? :/

 

[Kompromat]

Im sure police will take care of these scums.

 

[Not Sure]

I have seen no reports to suggest that.

That's alright.

But mark my words, whether it is reported or not, it is Hizb ut Tehrir avenging against those Police Raids that took place a few months back.

 

[monitor]

what their demand what they will achieve by harming innocent people other then maligning Islam and muslim . i condemn this madness by some so called Muslim and expect the release of hostage immediately .

 

[Falcon29]

Seems like old suspect, so it must be something more personal. He looks caucasian which could be Arab or white. He wants maximum attention.

That's alright.

But mark my words, whether it is reported or not, it is Hizb ut Tehrir avenging against those Police Raids that took place a few months back.

No I won't mark your words. Hizb Al Tahrir is an educated social movement that won't jeopardize its image.

 

[thesolar65]

That because a lot think that it's some conspiracy and Israel created ISIS, There was even a thread on this I believe.

Yes and main proponents of that thread were Saudis and Turkish.

 

[Not Sure]

Seems like old suspect, so it must be something more personal. He looks caucasian which could be Arab or white. He wants maximum attention.

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No I won't mark your words. Hizb Al Tahrir is an educated social movement that won't jeopardize its image.

It seems to me that you are not even offended that this guy is using the Shahada in this deed of his. Do you not think that he has disrespected Islam by using that flag?

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Let's take it where it belongs - Islamic organizations should hold a protest right now - Somewhere in Sydney...solidarity with the hostages and a Fuk sign aimed towards the bustardz.

 

[Not Sure]

Let's take it where it belongs - Islamic organizations should hold a protest right now - Somewhere in Sydney...solidarity with the hostages and a Fuk sign aimed towards the bustardz.

Would be pretty cool, minus the bold part lol