Technological breakthrough raises nuclear fuel utilization rate: below 1% to 95%

[Shajida Khan]

ok thanks, so the difference to a conventional reactor is external neutron provider. however how can the utilizition rate be increased from 1 to 95%, considering the energy from the fuel remains unchanged, unless someone knows how to defeat Albert Einstein´s formula E=M*C^2?

Its not the question of defeating Einstein's equation at all. Its more the question of how to get enough neutrons -- also called neutron economy in nuclear reactions. For nuclear reaction to sustain it should be either self sustaining ie critical chain reaction -- which is what conventional reactors are; or it should be fed with neutrons from else where. Now if the nuclear reaction produces enough energy to run an accelarator but not enough neutrons to sustain itself, then we can make it artificial sustained by adding a source of neutron -- in this case a particle accelerator coupled with spallation.

In a conventional reactor as the fuel -- usually U-235 or Pu-239 -- fissions it leaves over fission products and U-238 called depleted uranium. Now as the density of U-235 decreases, the fission reaction also slows down meaning enough neutrons cannot be produced to sustain the chain reaction. If you have a reactor which can supplement neutrons from elsewhere it will allow the nuclear reaction to continue for longer and more U-235 to fission. This is why the utilization of U-235 increases.

There are other advantages of ADS like it can induce reaction into fertile fuel such as U-238 or Thorium.

Honestly speaking, the biggest breakthrough mankind can make is to discover a cheap, abundant and massive source of highly energetic neutrons. It can easily solve all our energy problems very quickly.

 

[Viet]

Its not the question of defeating Einstein's equation at all. Its more the question of how to get enough neutrons -- also called neutron economy in nuclear reactions. For nuclear reaction to sustain it should be either self sustaining ie critical chain reaction -- which is what conventional reactors are; or it should be fed with neutrons from else where. Now if the nuclear reaction produces enough energy to run an accelarator but not enough neutrons to sustain itself, then we can make it artificial sustained by adding a source of neutron -- in this case a particle accelerator coupled with spallation.

In a conventional reactor as the fuel -- usually U-235 or Pu-239 -- fissions it leaves over fission products and U-238 called depleted uranium. Now as the density of U-235 decreases, the fission reaction also slows down meaning enough neutrons cannot be produced to sustain the chain reaction. If you have a reactor which can supplement neutrons from elsewhere it will allow the nuclear reaction to continue for longer and more U-235 to fission. This is why the utilization of U-235 increases.

There are other advantages of ADS like it can induce reaction into fertile fuel such as U-238 or Thorium.

Honestly speaking, the biggest breakthrough mankind can make is to discover a cheap, abundant and massive source of highly energetic neutrons. It can easily solve all our energy problems very quickly.

so that means the trick is how to maintain a constant neutron flow to bring all U-235 atoms to fission. here comes an external neutron provider into play. Now I got it. I think the biggest challenge to the technology is to bring down the cost of a possible neutron cannon.

 

[Shajida Khan]

so that means the trick is how to maintain a constant neutron flow to bring all U-235 atoms to fission. here comes an external neutron provider into play.

Yes, enough neutrons of right amount of energy. Too much energy per neutron means too few neutrons so inefficient reaction and too less energy means no reaction.

 

[Viet]

Yes, neutrons of right amount of energy. Too much energy per neutron means too few neutrons so inefficient reaction and too less energy means no reaction.

well someone needs to invent a fine tuned neutron cannon, doesn´t it? problem solved.

 

[Shajida Khan]

well someone needs to invent a fine tuned neutron cannon, doesn´t it? problem solved.

Oh they are working on it. It usually does not get reported as much. Example is fusion. When usually press and media talk about fusion they think of fusion as a source of energy. There is one more use of fusion. It can be used as a source of neutrons. D-T fusion is a rich source of neutron and it can be used to create Fusion-Fission reactors. Trouble with such reactors is that they will be HUGE. Around 5-6 Gigawatt reactors and hence expensive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion–fission_hybrid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Inertial_Fusion_Energy -- here they tried to find if they can use fusion as a source of neutrons and hence get an early harvest of energy from fission.

 

[jhungary]

so that means the trick is how to maintain a constant neutron flow to bring all U-235 atoms to fission. here comes an external neutron provider into play. No I got it. I think the biggest challenge to the technology is to bring down the cost of a possible neutron cannon.

Cost is a problem, but not the major problem.

Safety and Effectiveness is the major problem we are facing on ADS Thorium Reactor.

With the inclusion of Accelerator, which mean the larger the system output, the higher chance the beam tube would break the containment barrier.

Also, accelerator have a longer service downtime, as there are more element involve other than temperature and mechanical issue. Vacuum, EM, cooling as well as temperature and mechanical control are needed to operate accelerator.

 

[Shajida Khan]

Cost is a problem, but not the major problem.

Safety and Effectiveness is the major problem we are facing on ADS Thorium Reactor.

With the inclusion of Accelerator, which mean the larger the system output, the higher chance the beam tube would break the containment barrier.

Also, accelerator have a longer service downtime, as there are more element involve other than temperature and mechanical issue. Vacuum, EM, cooling as well as temperature and mechanical control are needed to operate accelerator.

Well, there are schools of thought which consider ADS to be inherently safe in a way. There is no-way an ADS can becomes something like Fukushima since the reactor is sub-critical. If power to Accelarator fails your entire reaction slows and stops.

That said, accelarators are indeed fragile piece of equipment and they do break easily. Another alternative is to use fusion as a source of neutron -- something LIFE project tried.

 

[jhungary]

Well, there are schools of thought which consider ADS to be inherently safe in a way. There is no-way an ADS can becomes something like Fukushima since the reactor is sub-critical. If power to Accelarator fails your entire reaction slows and stops.

That said, accelarators are indeed fragile piece of equipment and they do break easily. Another alternative is to use fusion as a source of neutron -- something LIFE project tried.

Well, ADS being "safer" than conventional reactor but still there are safety issue linger. But yes, it will basically not melt down because you can simply cut off the neutron by cutting off the particle accelerator, but there are also another side to it too. For example. Energy control and Temperature is more critical in ADS Reactor than Conventional Reactor

 

[Viet]

Cost is a problem, but not the major problem.

Safety and Effectiveness is the major problem we are facing on ADS Thorium Reactor.

With the inclusion of Accelerator, which mean the larger the system output, the higher chance the beam tube would break the containment barrier.

Also, accelerator have a longer service downtime, as there are more element involve other than temperature and mechanical issue. Vacuum, EM, cooling as well as temperature and mechanical control are needed to operate accelerator.

ok regardless I think the thread title of 95% efficient rate is misleading, someone can inteprete it as technology breakthru. there is a long well established technology called nuclear fuel reprocessing.

 

[Shajida Khan]

ok regardless I think the thread title of 95% efficient rate is misleading, someone can inteprete it as technology breakthru. there is a long well established technology called nuclear fuel reprocessing.

Oh well, at the risk of angering a number of Chinese members, I can say that title is indeed misleading, these advantages of ADS were known for quite long and not exactly novel.

I am still trying to understand the breakthrough or Chinese contribution here. I guess it is in accelerator design or scaling of accelerator.

Well, ADS being "safer" than conventional reactor but still there are safety issue linger. But yes, it will basically not melt down because you can simply cut off the neutron by cutting off the particle accelerator, but there are also another side to it too. For example. Energy control and Temperature is more critical in ADS Reactor than Conventional Reactor

Agreed Sir!

 

[jhungary]

ok regardless I think the thread title of 95% efficient rate is misleading, someone can inteprete it as technology breakthru. there is a long well established technology called nuclear fuel reprocessing.

I can tell you this, the title is misleading not because of the rate, but they actually does not have a functioning ADS system at this moment, the Article (in Chinese) talked about their scientist had made the world first Linear Particle Accelerator can be used for spallation, the same article said the test phase for ADANES system and going for 2030 to build the first GeV power Station.

A recap of the article

http://www.guancha.cn/Industry/2017_06_09_412410.shtml

中国科学网6月8日消息，2017年6月5日至7日，全球首台25MeV质子直线加速器通过测试，标志着我国先进核裂变技术获得突破

Chinese Science Network June 8 claims, in June 5-7 2017, the world first 25MeV Proton Linear Accelerator passed the test, making a breakthrough to nuclear fission technology

专家说，2016年至2023年是ADANES原理验证、系统集成及规模验证阶段，力争到2030年时建成百兆瓦级工程示范项目。

According to expert, They will test the ADANES theory, system and progress testing phase between 2016-2023, and try to build a 100 MeV Project in 2030.

Oh well, at the risk of angering a number of Chinese members, I can say that title is indeed misleading, these advantages of ADS were known for quite long and not exactly novel.

I am still trying to understand the breakthrough or Chinese contribution here. I guess it is in accelerator design or scaling of accelerator.


Agreed Sir!

The article does not mention much beside the Scientist claim they build the world first 25 MeV Proton Linear Particle accelerator. The problem is, I think there exist 25 MeV Proton Linear Particle accelerator already in US and Japan, maybe this is used especially for ADS? Or Something else so they can claim it as world first? I don't know, it didn't say in the Article in Chinese.

Otherwise, all the remaining of the article mention a time line for testing of the theory and the estimation of the first ADS Reactor in China to be somewhere in 2030. But then the world probably have the same progress, maybe more, so after reading the whole Chinese article, me too, I don't really know where is the breakthrough or what is the contribution...

We all trying to make a breakthrough on ADS, judging by what I see in the article said here, I don't see how making a 25 MeV Particle Accelerator can be claim a breakthrough?? Maybe I am missing something? I don't know..

 

[Shajida Khan]

At the very least it is a commitment and resource investment in a technology which can be game changer.

ADS has better shot at providing energy for next 1000 years than say fusion. I think in a thousand years humanity will iron out all the technical issues in nuclear fusion. Till then ADS can provide us with enough energy to sustain our growth -- without killing all of us with rancid air.

 

[Viet]

I can tell you this, the title is misleading not because of the rate, but they actually does not have a functioning ADS system at this moment, the Article (in Chinese) talked about their scientist had made the world first Linear Particle Accelerator can be used for spallation, the same article said the test phase for ADANES system and going for 2030 to build the first GeV power Station.

A recap of the article

http://www.guancha.cn/Industry/2017_06_09_412410.shtml

中国科学网6月8日消息，2017年6月5日至7日，全球首台25MeV质子直线加速器通过测试，标志着我国先进核裂变技术获得突破

Chinese Science Network June 8 claims, in June 5-7 2017, the world first 25MeV Proton Linear Accelerator passed the test, making a breakthrough to nuclear fission technology

专家说，2016年至2023年是ADANES原理验证、系统集成及规模验证阶段，力争到2030年时建成百兆瓦级工程示范项目。

According to expert, They will test the ADANES theory, system and progress testing phase between 2016-2023, and try to build a 100 MeV Project in 2030.



The article does not mention much beside the Scientist claim they build the world first 25 MeV Proton Linear Particle accelerator. The problem is, I think there exist 25 MeV Proton Linear Particle accelerator already in US and Japan, maybe this is used especially for ADS? Or Something else so they can claim it as world first? I don't know, it didn't say in the Article in Chinese.

Otherwise, all the remaining of the article mention a time line for testing of the theory and the estimation of the first ADS Reactor in China to be somewhere in 2030. But then the world probably have the same progress, maybe more, so after reading the whole Chinese article, me too, I don't really know where is the breakthrough or what is the contribution...

We all trying to make a breakthrough on ADS, judging by what I see in the article said here, I don't see how making a 25 MeV Particle Accelerator can be claim a breakthrough?? Maybe I am missing something? I don't know..

Proton Linear Accelerator? should it be neutron?

 

[Shajida Khan]

Proton Linear Accelerator? should it neutron?

You cannot accelerate neutron -- it has no charge so it will not be affected by electric or magnetic fields. So you accelerate protons and hurl them on lead nuclei with a hope that they dislodge few neutrons present there. This is technically called 'spallation'.

 

[My-Analogous]

Breaking news! China had increased the use rate of nuclear Uranium from 1% to 95% by adapting ADANES.

@war&peace
Which means the current uranium stock could be used 10 thousands years plus for China!

You guys doing crazy things and making your enemy many sleepless nights. Keep the good work going our Iron Brothers