Tata Motors Sign Strategic Pact With Bharat Forge, General Dynamics On Indian Army’s FICV Program

[Zarvan]

Tata Motors has signed a strategic agreement with Bharat Forge Limited and General Dynamics for Indian Army’s Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV) program.

Tata Motors will lead the consortium, with Bharat Forge Limited as a partner, while General Dynamics Land Systems will bring in its much proven expertise in combat vehicle platforms, the company said in a release Monday.

Tata Motors will work on Design, Development & Integration of mobility platforms, while Bharat Forge’s will bring on board its competence with fighting platforms and manufacturing strengths. General Dynamics’ SOSI (a system of systems integrator) in various integration programs will help Tata Motors to offer a truly indigenous solution for this ‘Make’ program.

Ravi Pisharody, Executive Director, Commercial Vehicles, Tata Motors Ltd. said, “Defence particularly needs partners with long-term commitments to see products and solutions through multiple generations of evolution, and we at Tata Motors are proud to have joined hands with Bharat Forge and General Dynamics Land Systems, for a complete FICV solution for the Indian armed forces.”

To be developed under the ‘Make Category’, the FICV is a high mobility armoured battle vehicle, for infantry men to keep pace with new advancements in weaponry system. The FICV needs to be compact, tracked and amphibious, no heavier than 18-20 tonnes, so that it can be air-portable and transportable by other means, onto combat zones.

The vehicle must fire anti-tank guided missiles, to ranges beyond four kilometers, with a capability to carry a crew of three and eight combat-kitted infantrymen.

Tata Motors Sign Strategic Pact With Bharat Forge, General Dynamics On Indian Army’s FICV Program

 

[Ronin]

Hope they decide within this year, this contact has been dragging as well

 

[Abingdonboy]

@PARIKRAMA @Water Car Engineer

 

[Armani]

We need the tracked versions for the FICV competition. But looking at the developments, neither Tata nor Mahindra seem to be taking their prototypes forward. Till date I only just saw the bare-bones hull of the Tata FICV tracked version rolling around.

But the development & testing of the wheeled 8x8 APC/IFV variants seems to be going in full steam. The Indian forces indeed have a requirement for such vehicles as well, but not as yet.

What could be the reason? The Govt./MoD seem to be dilly-dallying with the tracked FICV tender, which could probably explain the skepticism displayed by the private co.s' in taking forward that development. But Tata seems to have seen a potential business prospect in developing the Kestrel as a wheeled armored vehicle platform, independent of the MoD requirement.

Did they see a potential buyer somewhere else? Developing it for the export market?

Tata was never bad at doing business.

 

[Abingdonboy]

We need the tracked versions for the FICV competition. But looking at the developments, neither Tata nor Mahindra seem to be taking their prototypes forward. Till date I only just saw the bare-bones hull of the Tata FICV tracked version rolling around.

But the development & testing of the wheeled 8x8 APC/IFV variants seems to be going in full steam. The Indian forces indeed have a requirement for such vehicles as well, but not as yet.

What could be the reason? The Govt./MoD seem to be dilly-dallying with the tracked FICV tender, which could probably explain the skepticism displayed by the private co.s' in taking forward that development. But Tata seems to have seen a potential business prospect in developing the Kestrel as a wheeled armored vehicle platform, independent of the MoD requirement.

Did they see a potential buyer somewhere else? Developing it for the export market?

Tata was never bad at doing business.

This tie-up is explicitly for the FICV project.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

An FICV with anti tank missiles of 4km range? was it inserted recently by the Army?

 

[Abingdonboy]

An FICV with anti tank missiles of 4km range? was it inserted recently by the Army?

No, it's been in the requirements since the orginal tender. With modular turret with "plug and play" it's easily doable.

 

[surya kiran]

An FICV with anti tank missiles of 4km range? was it inserted recently by the Army?

Its an army tender. Wait for the one where they say, it should be able to fire lasers while being dropped from a C-17, 1 km away from the shore and carry 9 battle troops with an APS and fire Nag to a distance of 8 kms.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

@PARIKRAMA @Water Car Engineer

Hmmm... Surely the platform is from TATA still. G.D. selected the unmanned Kongsberg turret for their stryker, so I wanna guess it'll make it to this platform as well. TATA already showed off a quick fit with the Kongsberg turret back in the last expo. Tonbo imaging's electronics will make it to this turret as well, stated by the CEO.

Mahindra and L&T reformed as well after the reopening.. Their reformation/team is a powerhouse as well, as with TATA and consortium.

It's incredible how fast they decided to reform, and even team up with companies that were once a competitor in the tender, even robe in new technical partners.

It's pretty obvious how fast the big private firms are at getting things rolling compared to most of their public counterparts.

Plus, we're seeing something almost unprecedented in Indian defence, large Indian private firms leading and having a slugfest for lead integration work. Sign of things to come.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Hmmm... Surely the platform is from TATA still. G.D. selected the unmanned Kongsberg turret for their stryker, so I wanna guess it'll make it to this platform as well. TATA already showed off a quick fit with the Kongsberg turret back in the last expo.

TATA will make the platform/chassis and the like whilst GD will act as a technical partner and will be able to tap into MASSIVE expereince in this area to help TATA make a world class product. Getting GD onboard was a masterful move by TATA, they have R&D centres all over the world and have contacts with every entity that could possibly be needed to make this a success and TATA are no slouches themselves and are actively building up their defence business already. It seems like the perfect partnership.

Frankly, it will take a collossal effort to defeat this bid IMO.

It's pretty obvious how fast the big private firms are at getting things rolling compared to most of their public counterparts.

Indeed, and let's not forget that L&T have tied up with Samsung to make the K9 in Pune (and hopefully their bid will win the MGS) and Mahindra have tied up with BAE to make the M777 in India. I assume that BAE will also be involved in some way for the L&T/Mahindra bid.


Things are progressing very nicely on this front now.

+ @Water Car Engineer you make a very good point about the Kongsberg turret, TATA had it on their Kestral:

That must have been after working with GD who have selected the same for their Stryker upgrade:

 

[Water Car Engineer]

That must have been after working with GD who have selected the same for their Stryker upgrade:

I think GD is a rather new official addition to their team. Originally, they were working with a German company, which got blacklisted. Even with that happening, TATA managed to show a working prototype of Kestrel(based on wheeled FICV) ahead of schedule in the 2013 expo. The Kongsberg rep at the expo stated that he, "hoped", to get something in the Indian market. So nothing was assured at that time, not even of a team up with TATA. TATA just wanted to show it was a modular design, with whatever turret could be fitted for the customer. It's just my opinion(and also hope), but I think they'll get the fitment into FICV. Tonbo imaging is also leaching off that as well, as their electronics will make it into and on the turret.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Water Car Engineer quite a different requirement and thus product but this is what General Dynamics is making for the Britsh Army for their armoured scout requirement:

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

No, it's been in the requirements since the orginal tender. With modular turret with "plug and play" it's easily doable.

I know. But wont it affect the carrying capacity of soldiers in war zone? Isnt it enough with just 2 machine guns?
I think the weight can be more effectively utilised for mine proofing and carrying an extra soldier. An ATGM can even be carried by soldiers inside if necessary to fire. I think the army is still putting out unnecessary Star Wars requirements, and when it gets stuck of "high cost" they will come down as usual.

Its an army tender. Wait for the one where they say, it should be able to fire lasers while being dropped from a C-17, 1 km away from the shore and carry 9 battle troops with an APS and fire Nag to a distance of 8 kms.

I am surprised that they havent already asked for that. Army and its requirement documents -->

 

[Abingdonboy]

I know. But wont it affect the carrying capacity of soldiers in war zone?

ATGM won't take up any space within the cabin and shouldn't affect the carrying capacity of the vehicle- that's why the IA has outlined how many soldiers it wants to be able to carry. An ATGM is a rather simple "plug and play" solution:

I think the army is still putting out unnecessary Star Wars requirements, and when it gets stuck of "high cost" they will come down as usual.

Let's not go over the top, this is a perfectly normal and logical request for the IA, the vehicles the FICV will replace already have ATGM firing capability (Konkours):

The 20mm/30mm autocannon will do nothing against heavy armour and thus it is important the FICVs have a true anti-tank capability themselves as they may not always be operating with MBTs.