Talks for Su-35, Mi-35 sales to Pakistan are underway: Russian Deputy FM

[abdulbarijan]

Just one question...IF this deal materializes then
how SU35 sthands against SU30 MKI n Rafael....???
what will be our advantage ???

The deal is still a big "IF" -- because the only confirmation we have had is the "talks are being held" -- whether this leads to a deal or not ... nobody knows as of now ... there is still a lot to consider ...

However lets suppose a deal was to be confirmed, as far as the "advantage" of SU-35 goes, usually the advantages are not noted in as ... Our aircraft X has this this and that advantage versus the adversary's aircraft Y ...

The advantage is noted/considered in the sense of what capability it brings to our airforce ... and to put it simply we would have the ability to do deadly deep strikes via our aircrafts and give our navy a very potent air arm ... that is more or less the crux of it all ..

Another factor would be ... what configuration of SU-35 we end up getting .. because there would be a high level of customization involved keeping in view that we would be operating Russian, American and Chinese jets all at the same time in an era where the concepts in use is network centric warfare ...

If the configuration we end up getting, has the luxury of integrating Chinese/Pakistani weapons ( + future weapons we acquire from other countries .. eg . A darter etc. ) and the luxury of customizing it where we can have the radar electronics of our choice from say China ... then the balance of power in the air, technologically atleast, would be the first time "balanced" since the "lost decade" ...

 

[Donatello]

One cannot begin to explain how hard they tried. Literally pulled every string they could at MAR-1. There is another reason why Pakistan's weapons deals are kept secret till the end and that is to ensure that the Indians get the word of it at the latest.

......which is why if this Su35 rumors were a slip of tongue by the Russian DFM, then PAF would be pretty pissed. In any case, India is a nation which if put its resources where they mattered, would actually gain more than trying to sabotage defense deals for Pakistan.

A nation of 1.2 billion is insecure by such a small country. Do we even need to fight them ever?

Plus look at the bright side. In the next 10-20 years, China alone will be able to supply every capable hardware to kill Indians. Meaning, even if worst case scenario we cannot get deals with the rest of the world, we are assured a reliable all forms arms market......an arms market which is willing to finance as well.

That my friend, is then, amusing and wonderful.


BTW, why didn't the Brazilians stop for Indians?

 

[ice_man]

if SU35s are something we considering why not consider the GRIPPEN used versions. they are swedish easily integrated with EREIYE.

and one damn good fighter with quick turn around and easy to maintain compared to the dual engine Sukhois

 

[Muhammad Omar]

if SU35s are something we considering why not consider the GRIPPEN used versions. they are swedish easily integrated with EREIYE.

and one damn good fighter with quick turn around and easy to maintain compared to the dual engine Sukhois

Gripen Vs JF-17

JAS-39 Gripen / JF-17 Thunder / F-20 Tigershark

Length: 14.1m / 14.4m / 14.4m
Height: 4.5m / 4.77m / 4.2m
Wing span: 8.4m / 9.0m / 8.13m
Empty weight: 6,800kg / 6,586kg / 5,090kg
Internal fuel: 2,000kg / 2,186kg / ?
Total load capacity: 5,300kg / 3,800kg / ?
Max TOW: 14,000kg / 12,400kg / 11,920kg
Max Speed: M2.0 / M1.6 / M2.0
Service ceiling: 50,000ft (15,240m) / 55,000ft (16,764m) / 55,000 ft (16,764m)
Engine: RM-12 / RD-93 / GE F404
Maximum Engine thrust: 18,000lb (8,164kg) / 19,000lb (8,618kg) / 17,000lb (7,700kg)
Thrust to weight ratio: 0.92 / 0.98 / 1.1
G limit: +9.0, -3 / +8.5, -3 / ?
Ferry range: 3,200km (2,000miles) / 3,480km (2,160miles) / 2,759km (1,715miles)
Combat radius: 800km (500miles) / 1,352km (840miles) / 556km (345miles)
Hardpoints: 8 / 7 / 7

 

[Dr Gupta]

Like I said, "as time goes on" ... so let time pass. Whatever you are seeing unfolding today is the effect of steps and policies of several years in the past. What you will see in the future will be the steps and policies today. To many things have happened and are happening to bring about an immediate visible change. The projects that have already been set in motion will go on as usual. Chabahar is just one project with more emphasis on Central Asia and Afghanistan and it is more to do with India's access to Central Asia, Afghanistan and some parts of eastern Europe.

You don't have to agree to me. But in my opinion the change that you say will arise if this happened is already in motion the effects of which you will see in future.

Russia has also agreed with Iran and India on the INSTC project, also Pakistan and India are full members of the Shanghai corporation which I hope being neighbours we can improve our ties as it will benefit both nations.

 

[Super Falcon]

Just one question...IF this deal materializes then
how SU35 sthands against SU30 MKI n Rafael....???
what will be our advantage ???

Dont worry SU 35 is baap of SU 30 in all aspects

And compare it with rafale u see the difference

 

[ice_man]

Gripen Vs JF-17

JAS-39 Gripen / JF-17 Thunder / F-20 Tigershark

Length: 14.1m / 14.4m / 14.4m
Height: 4.5m / 4.77m / 4.2m
Wing span: 8.4m / 9.0m / 8.13m
Empty weight: 6,800kg / 6,586kg / 5,090kg
Internal fuel: 2,000kg / 2,186kg / ?
Total load capacity: 5,300kg / 3,800kg / ?
Max TOW: 14,000kg / 12,400kg / 11,920kg
Max Speed: M2.0 / M1.6 / M2.0
Service ceiling: 50,000ft (15,240m) / 55,000ft (16,764m) / 55,000 ft (16,764m)
Engine: RM-12 / RD-93 / GE F404
Maximum Engine thrust: 18,000lb (8,164kg) / 19,000lb (8,618kg) / 17,000lb (7,700kg)
Thrust to weight ratio: 0.92 / 0.98 / 1.1
G limit: +9.0, -3 / +8.5, -3 / ?
Ferry range: 3,200km (2,000miles) / 3,480km (2,160miles) / 2,759km (1,715miles)
Combat radius: 800km (500miles) / 1,352km (840miles) / 556km (345miles)
Hardpoints: 8 / 7 / 7

however, the main difference is avionics. Gripen is way ahead in that aspect.

 

[Mutakalim]

The advantage is noted/considered in the sense of what capability it brings to our airforce ... and to put it simply we would have the ability to do deadly deep strikes via our aircrafts and give our navy a very potent air arm ... that is more or less the crux of it all ..

Days of deep strikes are gone as far as PAF is concerned. It is highly unlikely that PAF consider this option. They have enough SAM coverage to deter PAF from deep strikes. Anyone willing to do that should be ready for losses which will cause huge dent in PAFs top tier squadrons.

 

[batmannow]

Russia has also agreed with Iran and India on the INSTC project, also Pakistan and India are full members of the Shanghai corporation which I hope being neighbours we can improve our ties as it will benefit both nations.

Sure all the peace loving peoples like you think like that & even I'm.Pakistan we always think it as a dream to come true but your dear moodi sarkar is in other.mind set ?
But let's not , go there if INDIA , PAKISTAN , IRAN , CHINA , & RUSSIA stand together at least in Asia we don't need UN to help or decide Palestine & Kashmir issues ?
& we can dictate our own mutual interests ?

 

[Knight Rider]

Days of deep strikes are gone as far as PAF is concerned. It is highly unlikely that PAF consider this option. They have enough SAM coverage to deter PAF from deep strikes. Anyone willing to do that should be ready for losses which will cause huge dent in PAFs top tier squadrons.

That's why Pakistan has Better Missile System to strike Deep into India. Don't worry Pakistan Airforce also have Electronic warfare system to render useless Indian SAM systems along with Radar systems.

PAF's Electronic Warfare Tactical Training Range Opertaional - ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

So according to the article Minhas squadron JF-17 Thunders will also have Electronic attack capabilities.

Pakistan's PAF Re-equip Squadron No 2 Minhas With JF-17 - ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

And the Beast in Carnage FC-31 will be inducted in PAF very soon. Its a Stealth Fighter.

PAF wants to buy Chinese stealth aircraft: minister - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

 

[Khanivore]

now about Su-35 well its onli pakistanies who are sying rudssia will sell su-35s to them ...

Seriously, can you quote a Pakistani source? Otherwise stop wasting your time.

point is do you have money to buy them and what about setting up spare and training and maintenece infra from ground s up do you know how much money that takes ...

Point is, when dumb questions like this are posted, do you honestly think people in this forum will take you seriously? Do you think Pakistan would hold talks with Russia if they couldn't manage to fund and maintain a platform like Su-35? Be realistic!

so why should we be worried when owr MKI is already destinned to starts it own super sukhoi MLU which will give it a much needed AESA based Radar and EW suites and self protection jammers + new engines .... how will your PAF counter that even if you forget rafale or FGFA/PAKFA.... so nanhe miya masoom whats your point i ask again thank you

Ask your rattled up government and your fellow comrades what their opinion is before you self-assure yourself here.

but as for pudding well we are already having a feast ...

Yes, it's well known how India binges on military imports but forgets to tend to basic in-house sanitation, i.e. up until now HALF of India's population still has no access to a toilet. Enjoy your feast, fat girl.

 

[zebra7]

The deal is still a big "IF" -- because the only confirmation we have had is the "talks are being held" -- whether this leads to a deal or not ... nobody knows as of now ... there is still a lot to consider ...

However lets suppose a deal was to be confirmed, as far as the "advantage" of SU-35 goes, usually the advantages are not noted in as ... Our aircraft X has this this and that advantage versus the adversary's aircraft Y ...

The advantage is noted/considered in the sense of what capability it brings to our airforce ... and to put it simply we would have the ability to do deadly deep strikes via our aircrafts and give our navy a very potent air arm ... that is more or less the crux of it all ..

Another factor would be ... what configuration of SU-35 we end up getting .. because there would be a high level of customization involved keeping in view that we would be operating Russian, American and Chinese jets all at the same time in an era where the concepts in use is network centric warfare ...

If the configuration we end up getting, has the luxury of integrating Chinese/Pakistani weapons ( + future weapons we acquire from other countries .. eg . A darter etc. ) and the luxury of customizing it where we can have the radar electronics of our choice from say China ... then the balance of power in the air, technologically atleast, would be the first time "balanced" since the "lost decade" ...

Thanks for your visionary explanation about that but how many SU35 is needed for doing deep strike mission inside India and how could you say that they are not for the defensive purpose and PAF is willing to risk them to do some damage.

Gripen Vs JF-17

JAS-39 Gripen / JF-17 Thunder / F-20 Tigershark

Length: 14.1m / 14.4m / 14.4m
Height: 4.5m / 4.77m / 4.2m
Wing span: 8.4m / 9.0m / 8.13m
Empty weight: 6,800kg / 6,586kg / 5,090kg
Internal fuel: 2,000kg / 2,186kg / ?
Total load capacity: 5,300kg / 3,800kg / ?
Max TOW: 14,000kg / 12,400kg / 11,920kg
Max Speed: M2.0 / M1.6 / M2.0
Service ceiling: 50,000ft (15,240m) / 55,000ft (16,764m) / 55,000 ft (16,764m)
Engine: RM-12 / RD-93 / GE F404
Maximum Engine thrust: 18,000lb (8,164kg) / 19,000lb (8,618kg) / 17,000lb (7,700kg)
Thrust to weight ratio: 0.92 / 0.98 / 1.1
G limit: +9.0, -3 / +8.5, -3 / ?
Ferry range: 3,200km (2,000miles) / 3,480km (2,160miles) / 2,759km (1,715miles)
Combat radius: 800km (500miles) / 1,352km (840miles) / 556km (345miles)
Hardpoints: 8 / 7 / 7

This is the great advantage but it makes me feel that it can do deep strike penetration in Indian territory then the point of @abdulbarijan demilishes.

Dont worry SU 35 is baap of SU 30 in all aspects

And compare it with rafale u see the difference

What are the advantages pls?

 

[batmannow]

if SU35s are something we considering why not consider the GRIPPEN used versions. they are swedish easily integrated with EREIYE.

and one damn good fighter with quick turn around and easy to maintain compared to the dual engine Sukhois

Gripens are sanction pornes , any single word coming out.of any hot shot american official against the selling to Pakistan & seeds will close their eyes ?

 

[zebra7]

Gripens are sanction pornes , any single word coming out.of any hot shot american official against the selling to Pakistan & seeds will close their eyes ?

Are you sure for the SU35 ? Is there any official report for the SU 35 going to China confirmed ?

Gripens are sanction pornes , any single word coming out.of any hot shot american official against the selling to Pakistan & seeds will close their eyes ?

Are you sure for the SU35 ? Is there any official report for the SU 35 going to China confirmed ?

 

[Dr Gupta]

Sure all the peace loving peoples like you think like that & even I'm.Pakistan we always think it as a dream to come true but your dear moodi sarkar is in other.mind set ?
But let's not , go there if INDIA , PAKISTAN , IRAN , CHINA , & RUSSIA stand together at least in Asia we don't need UN to help or decide Palestine & Kashmir issues ?
& we can dictate our own mutual interests ?

Modi invited everyone in South Asia for his swearing in ceromony but everyone knows it is the Pak army that control's the foreign policy not NS. Doval needs to speak to the ISI and military as they hold the key.