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Actually my comments were not in the light of Taliban, for western like Steve even covering the hairs is abnormal and Taliban-ish. They have totally different society, and us muslims can not modify our societies on western patten. In France, they are snatching scarfs from heads of muslim women but are totally fine with showing cleavage and legs in winter season. There should always be the limits, only in stone age there were no compulsions and rules, if Darwin is to be believed.There is an agreed upon convention which is used to judge whether an act is considered another acceptable or unacceptable act protected by civil liberties or whether it is seemingly acceptable or seemingly acceptable and defies others' civil liberties or does not fall under the protection of it's own.
So the basic rule of thumb for freedom is usually. As long as your actions are your own and do not impact me, have it, where my nose starts, your freedom ends.
Now the limits and lines we draw depends upon the society. If tomorrow, we had a vote in Britain where people overwhelmingly voted for being allowed to fornicate in public, and allowed to walk nude on public property. If there was a majority support, it would be done.
If you were to raise the idea under the taliban, you'd be killed.
See the difference is not whether one culture allows one thing or not, it's whether it's own people have the right to decide whether they feel it should be allowed or not, even if it is not acceptable to their person and wouldn't do it themselves.
Actually my comments were not in the light of Taliban, for western like Steve even covering the hairs is abnormal and Taliban-ish. They have totally different society, and us muslims can not modify our societies on western patten. In France, they are snatching scarfs from heads of muslim women but are totally fine with showing cleavage and legs in winter season. There should always be the limits, only in stone age there were no compulsions and rules, if Darwin is to be believed.
Few decades ago they were punishing gays, nowadays they are promoting gays even on UN level.........they are not good and solid models to follow, tomorrow they may all decide that lets legalize the marriage with animals like donkeys and dogs
The situation is getting strange they even are protecting Hazaras from ISIS attacksAL KHOR, Qatar—When the Taliban governed Afghanistan, their repression of women was renowned: They shut down girls’ schools, kept women out of the workplace and forced them to wear face-covering, head-to-toe burqas.
Now they are delivering a different message: If we return to power, we won’t roll back the progress Afghan women have made in the interim.
Delegates who attended a meeting with Taliban representatives in the Gulf emirate of Qatar this past weekend described a softer stance by the group on women’s rights. They said the Taliban pledged to support women’s access to school and university, as well as their right to work outside the home—even in male-dominated professions like engineering.
They also said women’s participation in politics would be allowed, and that their right to inherit, as well as to choose their own husband, would be safeguarded.
The Taliban addressed women’s rights as part of two days of informal discussions with activists and people close to the Kabul government aimed at facilitating reconciliation between Afghanistan’s warring parties.
Since the Taliban’s fall from power in 2001, the condition of Afghan women has improved, but the gains remain fragile and repressive views on women are still widespread throughout the country—including among people close to the U.S.-backed government.
‘It’s not enough for [the Taliban] to say they wouldn’t roll back rights: We need to know what that means’
—Heather Barr, a senior researcher on women’s rights with Human Rights Watch
And a political solution to the Afghan conflict is still far away. The Taliban are still refusing to formally speak to the Kabul administration, and the war continues in Afghanistan, with both sides, as well as civilians, suffering high casualties.
After the Qatar talks, participants said they were surprised by the apparent willingness of the Taliban delegation to compromise politically on a number of issues. The three Afghan women who took part in the discussion said they were pleased by the Taliban’s apparent opening on women’s rights, even as they challenged them on their stance.
“I told them: Under your regime, you made us to wear clothes that forced us to see the world through tiny holes,” said Malalai Shinwari, a former Afghan member of parliament, recalling how she was forced to wear the all-covering burqa. “They said they won’t make the same mistakes that they made in the past. They said they would accept the rights we have today.”
The plight of Afghan women was a rallying cry in support of the U.S.-led toppling of the Taliban regime in 2001.
Much skepticism remains about whether the Taliban would genuinely change. Memories of life under their rule are still fresh, and Taliban insurgents continue to routinely shut down girls’ schools and target women teachers, politicians and activists.
“My worry is that the Taliban have a very different understanding of women’s right to education and political participation, and that it is based on their view that women are inherently inferior to men,” said Shaharzad Akbar, a Kabul-based activist.
Nevertheless, the meeting in Qatar has allayed some concerns that women would be excluded from possible peace talks, and that the hard-won gains of the past years would be sacrificed for the sake of a deal.
“This should get rid of the excuse that women shouldn’t participate at the negotiating table because the Taliban wouldn’t come if they sat at it,” said Heather Barr, a senior researcher on women’s rights with Human Rights Watch. “But it’s not enough for them to say they wouldn’t roll back rights: We need to know what that means.”
For instance, Ms. Barr says, while the movement in recent years has relaxed its position on girls’ education, it has also insisted schools be completely gender segregated.
In an official statement released after the conference, the Taliban said the movement “is committed to all the rights of women” but also said that “their human dignity and Islamic values [should not be] jeopardized.”
Participants of the Qatar meeting—which was organized by the Pugwash Council, an organization that works on conflict resolution—described the event as a first step in the right direction, and expressed hope it could eventually pave the way to formal peace negotiations.
While the Kabul government didn’t send an official delegation to Qatar, two members of Afghanistan’s top negotiating body and several people close to the country’s political leadership attended the event.
Sher Muhammad Abbas Stanikzai, the head of the eight-member Taliban delegation, outlined their position on women’s rights in a speech, attendees said. Taliban representatives also held informal discussions with women participants during tea breaks and meals, and were open to suggestions to hold more discussions on the issue in the future.
Among the women delegates was 24-year-old Lina Shinwari. She was six when the Taliban came to power and shut down her school. After the Taliban’s ouster, girls’ schools reopened and Ms. Shinwari was able to complete her education. She is now a criminal lawyer, and she takes up cases that no one else wants: She defends suspected Taliban insurgents.
“It was good to hear them speak about women’s rights within an Islamic framework,” she said. “It made me happy.”
—Ehsanullah Amiri contributed to this article.
Taliban Pledge to Amend Their Hard-Line Stance on Women’s Rights - WSJ
Ideology-wise Taliban are against Shiaism, but unlike ISI, their movement is not centered around killing Shias. When Mazar Shareef massacre occurred and Irani counsalte was attacked, and they were questioned........they put the blame on their Pakistani comrades of sipah-e-sahaba, that they themselves never intended to commit such excessive-ness against their 'countrymen'. The very hardcore Salafi , like those in ISIS, criticize Afghan Taliban for being "Nationalistic" or 'watan-parast'. The thing is, Afghan Taliban looks for their interests and have never gave up on regional and tribal politics. In Kurram, when Shia Turis were besieged by TTP, Haqqani network came in between as mediator and convinced TTP to lift the siege (Turis were literally starving to death) , they needed the Parachinar route of Turis to move between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Ghazni is mixed province so they wont antagonize Hazaras and would try to win their cooperation. Hazaras too realize that , in this choas, when Afghan security forces cant defend them, its better to try also new options. Its not that Taliban-Hazara coalitioncolaition has never happened before, they formed alliance against Ahamd Shah Masood to oust him from Kabul. In Mazara Shareef Hazara warlord Mohaqiq and Taliban made a treaty, but the former betrayed Taliban when was asked to lay down weapons and killed 3000 Taliban in the streets of city in surprise attack.The situation is getting strange they even are protecting Hazaras from ISIS attacks
Talibarn are illiterate drug addicts they will not make senseThe situation is getting strange they even are protecting Hazaras from ISIS attacks
Your thoughts just show why Pakistan is failing to still deal with the situationTalibarn are illiterate drug addicts they will not make sense
When was the last time taliban made any sense?Your thoughts just show why Pakistan is failing to still deal with the situation
What amendments will they make? Cover only half the face? You can speak but make sure you do it quietly?
What do u want? Afghan women to walk naked in markets? Of course there are limitations on both sex what to wear and how to wear according to Islam. But it is true they were much strict to their women in their old days.
I agree with the above poster, the life style of you British and Americans is very different, for example we do not have nude beaches. Our women and men properly cover themselves and do not roam around in public wearing bikini and underwear. Dont expect Afghanistan to become like nang-dahrang, madar pidar azad America
Reminds me of this satire from 5 years back:
UnNews:Moderate Taliban will only cut off one hand - Uncyclopedia, the content-free encyclopedia
"Much strict"? What a polite (and wrong) way to put it. The way women became slaves wasn't about strictness or laxity, it was criminal and evil. Professional women, even ones who held advanced degrees (including PHDs) were forced to begging or prostitution to support themselves, because they were forbidden from working. A woman who didn't have a husband (for whatever reason) had no choice, but to do either of the above, or kill herself.
Many people here are sugarcoating their crimes when they use such soft language, and imply that it is a difference in degree of right and wrong. No, it is not that they should not have gone that far - a mile or an inch, the journey was evil.
So if you don't expect "your women" to roam around naked, then what are you worried about? As another poster above said, let them decide what they want to wear. It's such a fallacious and slippery slope argument that you are putting, that giving women the right to choose their attire (or the right to study and earn a living) will lead to women walking naked in public.
By the way, your dig at America is completely misplaced. The USA is much more restrictive in such freedoms than many other parts of the world. Public nudity is much more common in Europe, and even Latin American countries like Brazil. The USA is in fact behind the "western world" in its attitude towards nudity.
This is precisely the kind of disingenous, faulty, slippery slope argument that I mentioned earlier. What has public fornication got to do with the topic at hand?Do people have the freedom to fornicate in public in west? i mean people there can say that there should be no compulsion, they should be given choice of fornicating in parks, restaurants etc.
Absolutely. But that is not the issue at hand here. The topic is not about whether Afghanistan should allow public nudity - it is about whether women can study and work. As I explained in my previous post, stop trying to be disingenous and taking the discussion to ludicrously different topics. It is clear that what you really want to say is that women should not have equal rights. BTW, men are allowed to show their faces in public - how many of them walk naked, as a consequence? None? Then stop pretending that it is in any way related.Ghustakhi maaf -- but what is wrong with public nudity -- clearly if people have the right to choose what to wear then they should have the right to wear nothing ? No?