Sukmawati Sukarnoputri, daughter of former Indonesia president, converts to Hinduism from Islam

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Not sure where & how did you see me confusing religion with cultural or social practices.

Keeping word jugglery aside, lets just agree/disagree on two points:
Is God infinite? Yes. I think you would agree.
Can something infinite be 'defined' precisely? No. I hope you agree.

It's not word jugglery. God has 99 descriptive attributes in the Quran. For example, God is Almighty and the Exalted. There can be more, the Infinite in power, the One not limited by space and time. The point for believers, however, is not only God's descriptions, but also submission in faith and worship. For that we must understand who we are worshiping and why. He is the God who created us, to whom we will return and who will Judge us.

 

[terry5]

I thought it was illah before quraan..

The word Allah has been used by Arabic people of different religions since pre-Islamic times.[8] The origin of the title Allah goes back before Muhammad, who found that the Meccans worshipped a supreme deity whom they called Allah. Along with Allah, however, they also worshipped a host of lesser gods and “daughters of Allah.”[9] Later it has been used as a term for God by Muslims (both Arab and non-Arab) and even Arab Christians[10]after the term "al-ilāh" and "Allah" were used interchangeably in Classical Arabic by the majority of Arabs who had become Muslims. It is also often, albeit not exclusively, used in this way by Bábists, Baháʼís, Mandaeans, Indonesian and MalteseChristians, and Sephardi Jews.[11][12][13][14] Similar usage by Christians and Sikhs in West Malaysia has recently led to political and legal controversies.[15][16][17][18]

 

[terry5]

Allah swt is not everywhere .

“Allah, it is He Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them in six days. Then He rose over (istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). You (mankind) have none, besides Him, as a Wali (protector or helper) or an intercessor. Will you not then remember (or receive admonition)?” [32:4]

“Surely, your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six days and then rose over (istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty), disposing the affair of all things.” [10:3]



“To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it (i.e. the goodly words are not accepted by Allah unless and until they are followed by good deeds).” [35:10]

“He is the First (nothing is before Him) and the Last (nothing is after Him), the Most High (nothing is above Him) and the Most Near (nothing is nearer than Him).” [57:3]

“Have you not seen that Allah knows whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is on the earth? There is no najwa (secret counsel) of three but He is their fourth (with His Knowledge, while He Himself is over the Throne, over the seventh heaven), — nor of five but He is their sixth (with His Knowledge), — nor of less than that or more but He is with them (with His Knowledge) wheresoever they may be.” [58:7]

 

[Indos]

Allah swt is not everywhere .

“Allah, it is He Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them in six days. Then He rose over (istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). You (mankind) have none, besides Him, as a Wali (protector or helper) or an intercessor. Will you not then remember (or receive admonition)?” [32:4]

“Surely, your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six days and then rose over (istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty), disposing the affair of all things.” [10:3]



“To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it (i.e. the goodly words are not accepted by Allah unless and until they are followed by good deeds).” [35:10]

“He is the First (nothing is before Him) and the Last (nothing is after Him), the Most High (nothing is above Him) and the Most Near (nothing is nearer than Him).” [57:3]

“Have you not seen that Allah knows whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is on the earth? There is no najwa (secret counsel) of three but He is their fourth (with His Knowledge, while He Himself is over the Throne, over the seventh heaven), — nor of five but He is their sixth (with His Knowledge), — nor of less than that or more but He is with them (with His Knowledge) wheresoever they may be.” [58:7]

Yup, this is basically Wahabi interpretation that Allah is above us, any way. This kind of interpretation is using physical thing as basis, while Allah is not physical and He cannot be seen.

How about interpreting His throne with some thing beyond physical, something which is related to Ruh. Human physically the same, living on earth but the soul is rather sit in different level. We are talking Ruh, metaphysic, not physical. This is why in Isra Mi'raj, prophet Muhammad can met many prophet before meeting ALLAH in Sidratul Muntaha, how can prophet Muhammad met prophet Ibrahim and other prophet pysically as all are already death ? It is because prophet Muhammad met their Ruh and Isra Miraj is basically happening while prophet Muhammad is sleeping.

 

[Sage]

Apostasy on its own is not punishable by man's laws. Quran 4-137 Indeed, those who have believed then disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then increased in disbelief - never will Allah forgive them, nor will He guide them to a way.

What people don't want is Islamophobic incitement, abuse and lies. But, there must be millions of disbelievers in the Muslim world. Better to let them freely say they don't believe than have misunderstandings about someone or have them ruin the reputation of the religion from inside.

Khalifa e Rashid Hazrat Abu Bakar Saddique was more prudent than me and you ...He orderd a pitch battle against such murtads...let them not live and make a mockery of Islam.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Khalifa e Rashid Hazrat Abu Bakar Saddique was more prudent than me and you ...He orderd a pitch battle against such murtads...let them not live and make a mockery of Islam.

He was the head of state over 1400 years ago. He took actions based on his context. Quran is the ultimate believer's guide till the Day of Judgement. Apostasy by itself is clearly not punishable. Nobody can come in between a person and his Creator (this is Shirk). Belief in Allah is directly between the person and his Creator, not a negotiation with others. It is willing submission.

 

[terry5]

Yup, this is basically Wahabi interpretation that Allah is above us, any way. This kind of interpretation is using physical thing as basis, while Allah is not physical and He cannot be seen.

How about interpreting His throne with some thing beyond physical, something which is related to Ruh. Human physically the same, living on earth but the soul is rather sit in different level. We are talking Ruh, metaphysic, not physical. This is why in Isra Mi'raj, prophet Muhammad can met many prophet before meeting ALLAH in Sidratul Muntaha, how can prophet Muhammad met prophet Ibrahim and other prophet pysically as all are already death ? It is because prophet Muhammad met their Ruh and Isra Miraj is basically happening while prophet Muhammad is sleeping.

It’s from Quran itself


The Throne of Allah is above Water

“And it is He who created the heavens and the earth in six days – and His Throne had been upon water…” (Quran 11:7) The Prophet ﷺ was asked, “ Where was Allah before He created His creation?’ He said: “He was above the clouds, below which was air, and above which was air and water. Then He created His Throne above the water.” (Sunan Ibn Majah)

Allah swt is above he’s throne above the heavens he’s conscious is everywhere



Hadiths

Abdullah bin Amr reported that the Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wasallam) said: "Be merciful to those on earth, so that the One above the heavens will be merciful to you.
Are you saying Allah swt is everywhere ? He is not

think of all the bad things dirty things forbidden things in this world . Murders , rapes abuse oppression etc etc

how can God be everywhere ,

 

[El Sidd]

Wow Maharani means “Great queen” in Tamil

Can she claim Indian lands now?

 

[Sage]

He was the head of state over 1400 years ago. He took actions based on his context. Quran is the ultimate believer's guide till the Day of Judgement. Apostasy by itself is clearly not punishable. Nobody can come in between a person and his Creator (this is Shirk). Belief in Allah is directly between the person and his Creator, not a negotiation with others. It is willing submission.

So you mean to say that the principles of Islam are to be accepted as changed after 1400 years and that What Syedena Abu Bakar did was on his own context and had nothing to do to Islam? Shariah can surely come in between Allah and a person in such circumstances.

 

[Indos]

It’s from Quran itself


The Throne of Allah is above Water


Allah swt is above he’s throne above the heavens he’s conscious is everywhere



Hadiths

Abdullah bin Amr reported that the Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wasallam) said: "Be merciful to those on earth, so that the One above the heavens will be merciful to you.
Are you saying Allah swt is everywhere ? He is not

think of all the bad things dirty things forbidden things in this world . Murders , rapes abuse oppression etc etc

how can God be everywhere ,

Ok then above water still shows Allah can be close with human since Human live above water, but I need to see the Arabic of that water first as some time it is not easy to translate the words as many words in Quran verse cannot just be translated literally and there is some time different between English translator

Any way what is actually above phisically ? The earth is round and it rotates, even Sun also rotate. Above in this matter as I said (based on my understanding ) is above within Ruh level, people with bad behavior has lower rank Ruh and he cannot be near his God

This is showing Allah is every where. but I need to stress that Allah is not physical, He can only be touch/seen by our Ruh.

Quran

Qaf verse : 16

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

So you mean to say that the principles of Islam are to be accepted as changed after 1400 years and that What Syedena Abu Bakar did was on his own context and had nothing to do to Islam? Shariah can surely come in between Allah and a person in such circumstances.

Was he flipping pages of Sharia which began to be written 100 years later? Or was he acting as the head of state on what he thought was the best action against rebel tribes and imposters to protect his community? Wikipedia, Ridda wars: "The Ridda Wars (Arabic: حُرُوب ٱلرِّدَّة‎), or Apostasy Wars, were a series of military campaigns launched by the Caliph Abu Bakr against rebel Arabian tribes during 632 and 633, just after the death of the Islamic Prophet Muhammad.[1] Many rebels followed either Musaylimah, Tulayha, Sajjah, Laqit ibn Malik or Aswad Ansi, all of whom claimed to be prophets. Some rebels said that they had submitted to Muhammad as the prophet of Allah, but owed nothing to Abu Bakr. The rebel tribes were defeated and forced back into the control of the caliphate. A detailed reconstruction of the events is complicated by the frequently contradictory and tendentious accounts found in primary sources.[2]"

 

[Irfan Baloch]

In the world's most populous Muslim nation, Indonesia's founding father and first president, Sukarno's daughter converted into Hinduism from Islam

View attachment 788380
Photo: Reuters


In the world's most populous Muslim nation, Indonesia's founding father and first president, Sukarno's daughter on Tuesday converted into Hinduism from Islam.

Sukmawati Sukarnoputri, 69, converted into Hinduism in a ritual called 'Sudhi Wadani' as the ceremony happened at the Sukarno Centre Heritage Area in Bali's Buleleng Regency.

The main religion followed in Bali is Hinduism, however, it is different from the Hindu religion practised in India. Sukmawati's grandmother Ida Ayu Nyoman Rai Srimben, who is Balinese, played a major role in influencing the 69-year-old's decision to convert to Hinduism.

Sukmawati's lawyer, while informing about Sukmawati’s decision, said that the 69-year-old has extensive knowledge of all rituals of Hindu theology as well as doctrines.

A friend of Sukmawati's, who told the South China Morning Post that her relatives gave their blessings for the conversion, said that process was a “demonstration of courage”. The friend said that the conversion demonstrates a shining example of the Sukarno family’s “religious tolerance”.


The 69-year-old had been interested in the Hindu religion for the last 20 years and has read the Ramayana and the Mahabharata, the two great Indian epics, the friend said.

Sukmawati's parents played a major role in the independence of Indonesia from the Dutch and Sukarno, her father, became the first president of the nation after Indonesia was declared independent in 1945. He served for 22 years and was deposed in 1967.

In 2018, the 69-year-old had called herself a “proud Muslim” after she was accused of blasphemy for reciting a poem at a fashion event that purportedly insulted the hijab and call to prayer.

Sukmawati Sukarnoputri, daughter of former Indonesia president, converts to Hinduism from Islam

In the world's most populous Muslim nation, Indonesia's founding father and first president, Sukarno's daughter converted into Hinduism from Islam

www.dnaindia.com

لَكُمْ دِيْنُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِيْنِ
her choice to choose her group of people to be judged and seen here and afterlife (if she still believes in one)

she should claim some money from Indian RSS. they are offering cash to people who convert to Hinduism.

 

[Sage]

Was he flipping pages of Sharia which began to be written 100 years later? Or was he acting as the head of state on what he thought was the best action against rebel tribes and imposters to protect his community? Wikipedia, Ridda wars: "The Ridda Wars (Arabic: حُرُوب ٱلرِّدَّة‎), or Apostasy Wars, were a series of military campaigns launched by the Caliph Abu Bakr against rebel Arabian tribes during 632 and 633, just after the death of the Islamic Prophet Muhammad.[1] Many rebels followed either Musaylimah, Tulayha, Sajjah, Laqit ibn Malik or Aswad Ansi, all of whom claimed to be prophets. Some rebels said that they had submitted to Muhammad as the prophet of Allah, but owed nothing to Abu Bakr. The rebel tribes were defeated and forced back into the control of the caliphate. A detailed reconstruction of the events is complicated by the frequently contradictory and tendentious accounts found in primary sources.[2]"
[/QUO
Flipping pages of Shria ...? Hazrat Abu Bakar did not have to do that...He was the closest companion of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH and he knew very well what was the decree in such circumstances ...the war was not against one person ...the war was against many tribes who reverted right after the death of Prophet Muhammad PBUH ...what you copied and pasted from the wikipedia is nothing new for me. And yes...these wars against the Fitana e Irtidad are well documented ....there are no contradictions attached to it. What exactly you want to say is still unclear.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

...

The point is there is no death sentence for apostasy.

 

[Sage]

The point is there is no death sentence for apostasy.

A person who has committed apostasy is to be given a 3 day warning by the state ...if he repents, his repentance be accepted...if not and if he leaves for good for some foreign land...he may not be hunted down...but if he/she continues apostasy on the same land even after a 3 day warning ...he/she be put to death.

The point is there is no death sentence for apostasy.