Su-30MKI - Super Sukhoi Upgrade Program.

PARIKRAMA · Aug 16, 2016

@waz @WAJsal @WebMaster

Pls merge this thread with the super sukhoi sticky thread.

@ashok321
Pls post super sukhoi related news in the sticky thread only.

All Indian members
Pls do nt open new threads on this topic. The coming time upto annual India Russia summit will see more news.. the ASQRs are more or less ready and next phase of localisation of the upgrades will be part of the agenda along with the financial part.

Pls keep it in sticky so that all can access relevant data and discussion at one place.

Thanks in advance ..

#hydra# · Aug 17, 2016

kaykay said:
No I am not saying about changing of engine but just uprating the current ones....

Thrust uprating will cause engine life reduction.

ashok321 · Aug 19, 2016

Russia, India discuss modernization of Su-30 aircraft

http://rbth.com/news/2016/08/18/russia-india-discuss-modernization-of-su-30-aircraft_622079

Moscow and New Delhi may work out an agreement on modernizing the Indian Air Force’s Sukhoi Su-30MKI multirole fighters before year-end, The Hindu reported on August 17.

According to the newspaper, the parties made considerable headway with their upgrade talks last month, when a Russian delegation came to New Delhi to discuss the military-technical cooperation.

“The consultations took place last month, and good progress was made. We hope for the deal to be made soon,” The Hindu quoted an official who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

The upgrade will equip the fighter jets with sophisticated avionics, radar and weapons and reduce their radar signature.

According to preliminary estimates, the upgrade of up to 200 Su-30MKIs may cost $8 billion.

The upgrade will be handled by India’s state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.

The Su-30MKI multirole fighter was developed to meet the requirements of the Indian Air Force.

sathya · Aug 19, 2016

^^^^ rafale arm wt seem low! I think it's more than8000 kgs or 16000 pounds

GuardianRED · Aug 23, 2016

PARIKRAMA · Aug 23, 2016

@GuardianRED - Nice find..
Enjoy this as well..

kaykay · Aug 24, 2016

Whoa!!! They maintained 100% serviceability for all platforms for 4 weeks during red flag exercise? It means in case of war, it can be done too.

Abingdonboy · Aug 24, 2016

kaykay said:
Whoa!!! They maintained 100% serviceability for all platforms for 4 weeks during red flag exercise? It means in case of war, it can be done too.

Where there is a will, there is a way!

A major contributing factor is that the MKI is basically fully indegenised 8 years down the line (from Red Flag 08) meaning India can do most (if not all) support activities in house wheras not too long ago it was dependant on the Russians and we all know how reliable they can be (they seem to fail at to deliver as stipulated in every single service contract).

ashok321 · Aug 30, 2016

HAL may put in Rs 2,000 crore for Sukhoi 30 spares hub

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...sukhoi-30-spares-hub/articleshow/53919425.cms

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is working on a pact with the air force and the Russian government to set up a spares hub for Sukhoi 30 fighters in India.

ashok321 · Sep 1, 2016

Russia's Sukhoi Super 30: The Outlook for India’s Ultra-Advanced Flanker Upgrade

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...he-outlook-indias-ultra-advanced-17535?page=2

The Su-30MKI program still remains unprecedented in terms of the time it took to implement. Most of the Indian aerospace programs are very slow. They include, for example, the Mirage 2000 and MiG-29 upgrades. Such upgrades, however, appear to be the best way for the IAF to bolster its fighting ability, especially in view of the budget constraints and the ongoing paralysis of the tender procedures that prevent the IAF from increasing the number of its squadrons to 45. Upgrading the existing planes obviates the need for increasing the already excessive number of various plane models in service with the IAF. Upgrade programs are also cheaper than buying new planes, and they are fully in line with the government’s Make in India policy.

The languid pace of decision-making on the IAF upgrade programs may be a reflection of India’s fundamental cultural patterns and of the additional red tape introduced by the DPP mechanism. Back in the 2000s, the IAF had a clear superiority over the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) by every possible measure, and it compensated for the Chinese Air Force’s greater numbers by superior technology (thanks primarily to the rapid implementation of the Su-30MKI program). Slow and deliberate decision-making therefore did not pose any major military-political risks, and it did help to keep costs under control. With the existing balance of military power and technology at the time, there was no pressing need for the Indian MoD to rush the procurement of new planes or the upgrades of the existing ones, so its relaxed approach was entirely rational.

Now, however, the situation is completely different. Pakistan has received up-to-date versions of America’s F-16 fighters and dozens of the Chinese-Pakistani FC-1 planes. What was once India’s complete dominance over the Pakistani Air Force has become a mere superiority. In fact, Pakistan may well achieve near-parity over time if it receives J-10 fighters from China (as well as the J-31, the quasi-5thgeneration fighter now being developed by the Chinese). Such near-parity between the IAF and the PAF would be completely unprecedented.

The power balance with the Chinese Air Force is an even greater worry for India. In the 1990s and early 2000s China bought 76 Su-27SK/UBK fighters and 100Su-30MKK/MK2 fighters from Russia. It quickly built another 105 Su-27SKplanes under Russian license, and then launched production of its own clones of these planes without bothering with the license. All of these planes represented early 1980s technology – but now China is about to start receiving the latest Russian Su-35 fighters. It is also working on its own quasi-5th generation fighter programs. As a result, the Chinese Air Force will catch up with the Indian Air Force in terms of technology, while also maintaining its impressive numerical superiority. India’s old defense procurement model, in which seven to 10 years is required merely to prepare a contract, has therefore become obsolete and unsustainable.

There is a pressing need for speeding up the Su-30MKI program in order to restore the Indian Air Force’s technological superiority over the Chinese. Essentially, India needs to pull off the same trick it did in the mid-1990s, when it responded to China’s mass procurement of Su-27/30 fighters with the originalSu-30MKI program. Two decades on, India needs to respond to China’s Su-35 and J-31 jets with the Sukhoi Super 30.

Upgrade options

The choice of the specific upgrade option will represent some kind of compromise between the price tag, the time frame, and the capability of the upgraded plane. In theory, this leaves a broad variety of technological solutions on the table. The most conservative solution - which is also the cheapest and quickest – would be to roll out to the entire Su-30MKI fleet the improvements already incorporated in the latest versions of the plane. The Su-30MKI is the oldest member of the family that also includes the Malaysian Su-30MKM (the 2007 model), and the Russian Su-30SM (the 2011 model). A conservative upgrade option would include a limited number of additional self-defense systems (similar to the ones used in the Malaysian model), as well as the numerous new missiles and smart bombs that are now being developed as part of the Russian 2020 State Armament Program for the Su-30SM. The conservative approach would essentially bring the Su-30MKI up to the Su-30SM level.

Meanwhile, the most radical upgrade option would be to develop an equivalent of America’s Silent Eagle fighter. This option would include replacing most of the plane’s systems. Most importantly, its passive phased array radar would be replaced with an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. Changes would also be made to the plane’s airframe to reduce its radar cross-section. The obvious drawback of this option is the high cost and the long time it would take to implement.

Finally, the most realistic option that would deliver great returns in terms of the plane’s capability without costing too much or taking too much time sits somewhere in the middle. It includes a deep upgrade of the plane’s N-011M Bars radar and integration of the latest Russian and Indian-made electronics, optics and infrared systems without modifications to the airframe.

It would also make sense to implement the Su-30MKI upgrade program in several batches of 50-55 planes, with each successive batch incorporating more complex technology. Such an approach was mentioned as a possibility by Yuri Beliy, chief of the NIIP Tikhomirov company, the developer of the Bars radar. Speaking in an interview, Beliy said that the first phase of the program could include upgrading the Bars radar to give it a greater range, higher resolution, better jamming resistance, and support for new weapons systems. At a later phase, the Bars radar could be equipped with an active phased array. The planes upgraded in the first batch could later be brought to the technical standard of the latest batches without any major difficulties.

The approach would make it possible to start the program quickly (thereby securing orders for India’s HAL and other local suppliers). It would improve the IAF’s capability in an evolutionary way, and it would be easier on the IAF pilots, who will not have to deal with a quantum leap in the complexity of the upgraded plane’s systems. Such a phased strategy worked well in 2002-2004, when Russia delivered the first 32 Su-30MKI planes. The fighters were supplied in three batches of 10, 12 and 10. Each successive batch included some improvements that were later incorporated in the previous batches, so all 32 planes were eventually brought to the same standard.

When the Su-30MKI specifications were being drawn up, the Indian military came up with an extremely well-balanced set of requirements for the new plane. Those requirements were at the cutting edge of – but not beyond – the Russian defense industry’s capability at the time, and could be implemented at a reasonable cost and within reasonable deadlines. It is to be hoped that a similarly well-balanced solution will be found for the Sukhoi Super 30 program.

Konstantin Makienko is deputy director of the Centre for the Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST) in Moscow

SR-91 · Sep 1, 2016

ashok321 said:
Russia's Sukhoi Super 30: The Outlook for India’s Ultra-Advanced Flanker Upgrade

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...he-outlook-indias-ultra-advanced-17535?page=2

The Su-30MKI program still remains unprecedented in terms of the time it took to implement. Most of the Indian aerospace programs are very slow. They include, for example, the Mirage 2000 and MiG-29 upgrades. Such upgrades, however, appear to be the best way for the IAF to bolster its fighting ability, especially in view of the budget constraints and the ongoing paralysis of the tender procedures that prevent the IAF from increasing the number of its squadrons to 45. Upgrading the existing planes obviates the need for increasing the already excessive number of various plane models in service with the IAF. Upgrade programs are also cheaper than buying new planes, and they are fully in line with the government’s Make in India policy.

The languid pace of decision-making on the IAF upgrade programs may be a reflection of India’s fundamental cultural patterns and of the additional red tape introduced by the DPP mechanism. Back in the 2000s, the IAF had a clear superiority over the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) by every possible measure, and it compensated for the Chinese Air Force’s greater numbers by superior technology (thanks primarily to the rapid implementation of the Su-30MKI program). Slow and deliberate decision-making therefore did not pose any major military-political risks, and it did help to keep costs under control. With the existing balance of military power and technology at the time, there was no pressing need for the Indian MoD to rush the procurement of new planes or the upgrades of the existing ones, so its relaxed approach was entirely rational.

Now, however, the situation is completely different. Pakistan has received up-to-date versions of America’s F-16 fighters and dozens of the Chinese-Pakistani FC-1 planes. What was once India’s complete dominance over the Pakistani Air Force has become a mere superiority. In fact, Pakistan may well achieve near-parity over time if it receives J-10 fighters from China (as well as the J-31, the quasi-5thgeneration fighter now being developed by the Chinese). Such near-parity between the IAF and the PAF would be completely unprecedented.

The power balance with the Chinese Air Force is an even greater worry for India. In the 1990s and early 2000s China bought 76 Su-27SK/UBK fighters and 100Su-30MKK/MK2 fighters from Russia. It quickly built another 105 Su-27SKplanes under Russian license, and then launched production of its own clones of these planes without bothering with the license. All of these planes represented early 1980s technology – but now China is about to start receiving the latest Russian Su-35 fighters. It is also working on its own quasi-5th generation fighter programs. As a result, the Chinese Air Force will catch up with the Indian Air Force in terms of technology, while also maintaining its impressive numerical superiority. India’s old defense procurement model, in which seven to 10 years is required merely to prepare a contract, has therefore become obsolete and unsustainable.

There is a pressing need for speeding up the Su-30MKI program in order to restore the Indian Air Force’s technological superiority over the Chinese. Essentially, India needs to pull off the same trick it did in the mid-1990s, when it responded to China’s mass procurement of Su-27/30 fighters with the originalSu-30MKI program. Two decades on, India needs to respond to China’s Su-35 and J-31 jets with the Sukhoi Super 30.

Upgrade options

The choice of the specific upgrade option will represent some kind of compromise between the price tag, the time frame, and the capability of the upgraded plane. In theory, this leaves a broad variety of technological solutions on the table. The most conservative solution - which is also the cheapest and quickest – would be to roll out to the entire Su-30MKI fleet the improvements already incorporated in the latest versions of the plane. The Su-30MKI is the oldest member of the family that also includes the Malaysian Su-30MKM (the 2007 model), and the Russian Su-30SM (the 2011 model). A conservative upgrade option would include a limited number of additional self-defense systems (similar to the ones used in the Malaysian model), as well as the numerous new missiles and smart bombs that are now being developed as part of the Russian 2020 State Armament Program for the Su-30SM. The conservative approach would essentially bring the Su-30MKI up to the Su-30SM level.

Meanwhile, the most radical upgrade option would be to develop an equivalent of America’s Silent Eagle fighter. This option would include replacing most of the plane’s systems. Most importantly, its passive phased array radar would be replaced with an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. Changes would also be made to the plane’s airframe to reduce its radar cross-section. The obvious drawback of this option is the high cost and the long time it would take to implement.

Finally, the most realistic option that would deliver great returns in terms of the plane’s capability without costing too much or taking too much time sits somewhere in the middle. It includes a deep upgrade of the plane’s N-011M Bars radar and integration of the latest Russian and Indian-made electronics, optics and infrared systems without modifications to the airframe.

It would also make sense to implement the Su-30MKI upgrade program in several batches of 50-55 planes, with each successive batch incorporating more complex technology. Such an approach was mentioned as a possibility by Yuri Beliy, chief of the NIIP Tikhomirov company, the developer of the Bars radar. Speaking in an interview, Beliy said that the first phase of the program could include upgrading the Bars radar to give it a greater range, higher resolution, better jamming resistance, and support for new weapons systems. At a later phase, the Bars radar could be equipped with an active phased array. The planes upgraded in the first batch could later be brought to the technical standard of the latest batches without any major difficulties.

The approach would make it possible to start the program quickly (thereby securing orders for India’s HAL and other local suppliers). It would improve the IAF’s capability in an evolutionary way, and it would be easier on the IAF pilots, who will not have to deal with a quantum leap in the complexity of the upgraded plane’s systems. Such a phased strategy worked well in 2002-2004, when Russia delivered the first 32 Su-30MKI planes. The fighters were supplied in three batches of 10, 12 and 10. Each successive batch included some improvements that were later incorporated in the previous batches, so all 32 planes were eventually brought to the same standard.

When the Su-30MKI specifications were being drawn up, the Indian military came up with an extremely well-balanced set of requirements for the new plane. Those requirements were at the cutting edge of – but not beyond – the Russian defense industry’s capability at the time, and could be implemented at a reasonable cost and within reasonable deadlines. It is to be hoped that a similarly well-balanced solution will be found for the Sukhoi Super 30 program.

Konstantin Makienko is deputy director of the Centre for the Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST) in Moscow

Nice read!!!!

IAF needs to start making smart decisions based on long term requirements. Implement this upgrade in batches as stated, would be beneficial and faster.

Super SU-30MKI and Rafales are more than enough to counter China and Pakistan. But if China decides to deploy newly acquired SU-35 on or close Indian border, India to gain advantage, should buy 2 squadrons of newly built PAKFA.

Even if they don't deploy SU-35s, India should still buy PAKFA and fly them for a couple years to know what changes it requires. IAF pilots will gain additional experience flying a new jet. FGFA will have only avionics changed, structure and flying characteristics will won't change. FGFA is definitely coming, so why not gain the experience faster. These 2 squadrons can later be upgraded to FGFA standard.

R!CK · Sep 1, 2016

SR-91 said:
Nice read!!!!

IAF needs to start making smart decisions based on long term requirements. Implement this upgrade in batches as stated, would be beneficial and faster.

Super SU-30MKI and Rafales are more than enough to counter China and Pakistan. But if China decides to deploy newly acquired SU-35 on or close Indian border, India to gain advantage, should buy 2 squadrons of newly built PAKFA.

Even if they don't deploy SU-35s, India should still buy PAKFA and fly them for a couple years to know what changes it requires. IAF pilots will gain additional experience flying a new jet. FGFA will have only avionics changed, structure and flying characteristics will won't change. FGFA is definitely coming, so why not gain the experience faster. These 2 squadrons can later be upgraded to FGFA standard.

Interesting proposal, and you have a point. But 2 squadrons could be a big number. Maybe something like 12 units and it could help understand what the jets lack and need further improvement on. All this only after we sign the agreement for joint research so Russians don't think we are stuck with no choice. But highly unlikely to have IAF follow such a pattern.

Good Day!