Stimson Center: Pakistani/Indian experts discuss future conflict in Kashmir

[Xestan]

Hello folks,

I wish I could put conditions to who can actually give opinion about this talk but I think the length of the session will filter out trolls and people with low intellect.

Stimson Center, as some of you might know recently completed its 30 years and had this 3 day thing where experts from over the world were invited. This particular talk was very interesting.

Some of military related related aspect of the Kashmir situation; I'll just summarise.

Brig (R) Feroz Hassan Khan is of the view that since three cabinet Minister in India, especially FM has talked about invasion of AJK, it is basically a military strategy coming into effect.

As per his experience from serving at Siachen and LoC, he says even if the whole Indian Army comes down, making inroads into AJK is close to impossible, but what can certainly happen is that the Indian Army as it enjoys higher ground could take pieces of land with each battle and then keep pushing the line of control, as what happened after 71 war.

He also predicts that the IB will be rather hot in coming months, from Sialkot to all the way down to the Arabian Sea.

Unfortunately the discussion never went on to the Military aspect any further than this.

What do you think Pakistan's response could be in such a scenario, keeping in view we do not want to escalate and keep it under conventional umbrella. Is it possible to defend against Indian Army's thrust at LoC?

https://www.stimson.org/content/com...outhern-asia-conflicts-challenges-and-choices

Featuring:

Prof. Feroz Hassan Khan, Naval Postgraduate School

Suhasini Haidar, Diplomatic Editor, The Hindu Newspaper

Nasim Zehra, author of From Kargil to the Coup: Events that Shook Pakistan

Vice Admiral (ret.) Vijay Shankar, Distinguished Fellow, Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies

Rabia Akhtar, Member of Pakistan Prime Minister's Advisory Council on Foreign Affairs; Assistant Professor and Director of the Centre for Security, Strategy and Policy Research, University of Lahore.

Suhasini Haidar, Indian journalist and analyst.

 

[pakpride00090]

It will turn nuclear. Conventional forces in short term can hold off but not in long term.

 

[loanranger]

ThankGod Christine Fair was not here.

 

[El Sidd]

Pakistan has first use policy for nuclear deterrence.

I cannot make it simpler for someone to get where we are going

 

[rak_987]

Sick of these thinktank sh*thole where indians talk openly while our liberandus from Pakistan talk peace and harmony while not about Pak interests. TV hostAamer Liaquat Hussain is a moron but he'll do better than these liberandus who only undermine and talk in ameek manner in front of randians.

 

[pakpride00090]

Sick of these thinktank sh*thole where indians talk openly while our liberandus from Pakistan talk peace and harmony while not about Pak interests. TV hostAamer Liaquat Hussain is a moron but he'll do better than these liberandus who only undermine and talk in ameek manner in front of randians.

Self-hate combined with cowardice and inferiority complex = Pakistani Liberals.

 

[Xestan]

Sick of these thinktank sh*thole where indians talk openly while our liberandus from Pakistan talk peace and harmony while not about Pak interests. TV hostAamer Liaquat Hussain is a moron but he'll do better than these liberandus who only undermine and talk in ameek manner in front of randians.

The people representing Pakistan in this panel are some of the finest intellectuals you have from this country. It wasn't a debate, if Indians are being petty, doesn't mean you have to be too. Blind nationalism is the death of logic.

 

[rak_987]

The people representing Pakistan in this panel are some of the finest intellectuals you have from this country. It wasn't a debate, if Indians are being petty, doesn't mean you have to be too. Blind nationalism is the death of logic.

And propagation of self-hating pseudo-intellectuals only devastates national interests. What have these liberandus achieved in last 15 years to support Pakistan narrative? Tell me one place where these jokers have successfully defended or tried to defend Pakistan's core interests. Firstly I don't know half of these people in the panel, Naseem Zahra is a talk show host who is indoctrinated by same US thinktanks. She was on scholarrship/fellowship for a US thinktank some years back has done nothing to advance Pakistan narrative.

You liberandus and your self-hating agenda has only helped our enemies who bark a lie while these **** liberals keep their head down not able to rebut half of their lies.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Hello folks,

I wish I could put conditions to who can actually give opinion about this talk but I think the length of the session will filter out trolls and people with low intellect.

Stimson Center, as some of you might know recently completed its 30 years and had this 3 day thing where experts from over the world were invited. This particular talk was very interesting.

Some of military related related aspect of the Kashmir situation; I'll just summarise.

Brig (R) Feroz Hassan Khan is of the view that since three cabinet Minister in India, especially FM has talked about invasion of AJK, it is basically a military strategy coming into effect.

As per his experience from serving at Siachen and LoC, he says even if the whole Indian Army comes down, making inroads into AJK is close to impossible, but what can certainly happen is that the Indian Army as it enjoys higher ground could take pieces of land with each battle and then keep pushing the line of control, as what happened after 71 war.

He also predicts that the IB will be rather hot in coming months, from Sialkot to all the way down to the Arabian Sea.

Unfortunately the discussion never went on to the Military aspect any further than this.

What do you think Pakistan's response could be in such a scenario, keeping in view we do not want to escalate and keep it under conventional umbrella. Is it possible to defend against Indian Army's thrust at LoC?

https://www.stimson.org/content/com...outhern-asia-conflicts-challenges-and-choices

Featuring:

Prof. Feroz Hassan Khan, Naval Postgraduate School

Suhasini Haidar, Diplomatic Editor, The Hindu Newspaper

Nasim Zehra, author of From Kargil to the Coup: Events that Shook Pakistan

Vice Admiral (ret.) Vijay Shankar, Distinguished Fellow, Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies

Rabia Akhtar, Member of Pakistan Prime Minister's Advisory Council on Foreign Affairs; Assistant Professor and Director of the Centre for Security, Strategy and Policy Research, University of Lahore.

Suhasini Haidar, Indian journalist and analyst.

REALITY is that india can do NOTHING to Pakistan. IF they could, they would have done so by now. Especially in light of their rhetoric. The fact that we are having this conversation is testament to how weak, powerless and incapable india is of taking on the Pakistani military even though they are more than 7× bigger than Pakistan........

 

[Xestan]

And propagation of self-hating pseudo-intellectuals only devastates national interests. What have these liberandus achieved in last 15 years to support Pakistan narrative? Tell me one place where these jokers have successfully defended or tried to defend Pakistan's core interests. Firstly I don't know half of these people in the panel, Naseem Zahra is a talk show host who is indoctrinated by same US thinktanks. She was on scholarrship/fellowship for a US thinktank some years back has done nothing to advance Pakistan narrative.

You liberandus and your self-hating agenda has only helped our enemies who bark a lie while these **** liberals keep their head down not able to rebut half of their lies.

Nasim Zehra has actually done a great service to this nation by her book on Kargil where she exposed one of the greatest blunders of our military history, it gives you the opportunity to mend your way. No greater service to the nation than to present the truth.

Secondly, about the narrative, if you'd had heard the whole talk, they talked about Kashmir and even countered Indians' arguments about Kashmiri militants with that of Mukti Bahini. So, these are the people who can actually present your narrative, while not losing their cool. And the world only listens to these kind of people, not the idiot nationalists who can cry out loud without any logic.

 

[rak_987]

Nasim Zehra has actually done a great service to this nation by her book on Kargil where she exposed one of the greatest blunders of our military history, it gives you the opportunity to mend your way. No greater service to the nation than to present the truth.

Secondly, about the narrative, if you'd had heard the whole talk, they talked about Kashmir and even countered Indians' arguments about Kashmiri militants with that of Mukti Bahini. So, these are the people who can actually present your narrative, while not losing their cool. And the world only listens to these kind of people, not the idiot nationalists who can cry out loud without any logic.

HAhahaha

miitary blunders, civilian blunders, or yeh PAkistan ke interests ko defend karenge.

Liberandu dalaals are listened from one side of the ear and forgotten very easily. Yes there personal interests are served bu tthese beghairat dalaals damage the community interests by giving our enemies points to score.
Psychologically demoralize the natin, does she address how Pakistan still has 5353 peak in Tiger Hill, Kargil which actually gives Pakistan advatage overlooking the Srinagar LEh highway? She would not even mention it,this is her auqaat. These are paid dalaals to hit Pakistani institutions. Liberandus are the biggest chu**** who feel these thinktanks listen to them. They use them like condom and flush them. Pakistani opinion is more important for them and liberandus auqaat is'nt that much they can influence Pakistani opinion.

 

[Psychic]

As per his experience from serving at Siachen and LoC, he says even if the whole Indian Army comes down, making inroads into AJK is close to impossible, but what can certainly happen is that the Indian Army as it enjoys higher ground could take pieces of land with each battle and then keep pushing the line of control, as what happened after 71 war.

We also have many options to make them suffer---including the option of proxies---this general will have a rude awakening just like IAF.

but what can certainly happen is that the Indian Army as it enjoys higher ground could take pieces of land with each battle

Both sides can play this game. We can also set Hafiz and Azhar lose.

India violated the Simla agreement shortly after signing it as her forces crossed the LOC and established five posts at a depth of 3km in Chorbet La.
Pakistan army also conducted similar operations for instance the Dalunang (1988) and Chummik (1989) operations to occupy peaks across the LOC. In the Dalunang operation, led by then FCNA commander Brigadier Aziz Khan, 23 posts were established across the LOC, which Pakistan still controls to this day.

That was back then when Pakistan was not that strong; now, he will get the same treatment which IAF got.

 

[Xestan]

HAhahaha

miitary blunders, civilian blunders, or yeh PAkistan ke interests ko defend karenge.

Liberandu dalaals are listened from one side of the ear and forgotten very easily. Yes there personal interests are served bu tthese beghairat dalaals damage the community interests by giving our enemies points to score.
Psychologically demoralize the natin, does she address how Pakistan still has 5353 peak in Tiger Hill, Kargil which actually gives Pakistan advatage overlooking the Srinagar LEh highway? She would not even mention it,this is her auqaat. These are paid dalaals to hit Pakistani institutions. Liberandus are the biggest chu**** who feel these thinktanks listen to them. They use them like condom and flush them. Pakistani opinion is more important for them and liberandus auqaat is'nt that much they can influence Pakistani opinion.

I have just reported this post because someone who believes having Point 5353 in control is a huge achievement and covers up for the strategic and tactical blunder at Kargil cannot understand these intellectual points. If you get time, go read Lt. Gen. (R) Tariq Khan's review of the same book, since your kind is always brushing the shoes of the Army.

We also have many options to make them suffer---including the option of proxies---this general will have a rude awakening just like IAF.

Both sides can play this game. We can also set Hafiz and Azhar lose.

India violated the Simla agreement shortly after signing it as her forces crossed the LOC and established five posts at a depth of 3km in Chorbet La.
Pakistan army also conducted similar operations for instance the Dalunang (1988) and Chummik (1989) operations to occupy peaks across the LOC. In the Dalunang operation, led by then FCNA commander Brigadier Aziz Khan, 23 posts were established across the LOC, which Pakistan still controls to this day.

That was back then when Pakistan was not that strong; now, he will get the same treatment which IAF got.

Indian Army has the capability to surprise us and they have done it on many occasions, for example, 65 and Kargil. Simla agreement was torn into pieces in actual terms when Siachen happened. It stands void. But fact of the matter is, as Brig. Feroz rightly mentioned, Indians do have the higher ground at LoC. I wanted to discuss the technical grounds here.

 

[SIPRA]

Under the current psychological scenario, both in Pakistan and India, if India tries to carry out any misadventure, whether in AJK or along the IB; it would lead to very disastrous consequences for the whole of the subcontinent. This conflict would most probably go out of control and, I think, that India fully realizes it. The restraint, shown by India as well as Pakistan, during 26/27 Feb conflict, clearly indicates this.

 

[Nancy]

REALITY is that india can do NOTHING to Pakistan. IF they could, they would have done so by now. Especially in light of their rhetoric. The fact that we are having this conversation is testament to how weak, powerless and incapable india is of taking on the Pakistani military even though they are more than 7× bigger than Pakistan........

They did Balakot and IOK annex very recently. That is why this thread.

Under the current psychological scenario, both in Pakistan and India, if India tries to carry out any misadventure, whether in AJK or along the IB; it would lead to very disastrous consequences for the whole of the subcontinent. This conflict would most probably go out of control and, I think, that India fully realizes it. The restraint, shown by India as well as Pakistan, during 26/27 Feb conflict, clearly indicates this.

I dont think so. Nuclear bluff is called many time. Other countries dont care as bluff was called already.

I think ISI need to predict the time very accurately. If timing slips Indian might take large piece of Azad Kashmir, then White house will call for truce. But too late for Pakistan. This is what happened in IOK annex.