State of teaching (and recording) military history (MH) in Pakistan

[Ticker]

It is easy to say about 3 dominant ethnicities of Pakistan that both Indians and Pakistanis share the same soil,


1. Sindhis share the Sindh soil both Indians and Pakistanis. Thus their histories are same as their geography.
2. Urdu Speaking share UP and Bihar and old Hyderabad Deccan. Thus their histories are same as their geography.
3. Punjabis share the soil of Punjab. Thus both Indians and Pakistanis share the Punjabi history and geography.

These three constitute almost 160+ million people of Pakistan out of a total of 200 millions.


Pashtuns though do not have direct share of modern day India. However most of the cities of KPK have a long history with Indians as far as Kolkatta. All thanks to the Grand Trunk Road (GT Road).


So when I talk about sharing histories, you gotta understand the proper reference,

The parts we share, we should be proud,

and the parts where we are unique, we should be proud.


Just remember that Europeans share a history even though they can still maintain their distinct identities.

Every Gora is not an Englishman

And

Every Brown is not an Indian.

Only uneducated people would equate all goras or all browns or all blacks or all ...........



peace

Old India is not New India which got independence in 1947. I as a Pakistani do not share any history with New India.

Have you ever even been to India or are you just an Indian movie fan.

Or are you a senior citizen around 80 years old who is home-sick.

There is no harm in having good relations with all our neighbours including India. Infact we must make endeavours to have good relations with India as well.

But not at the cost of handing over my identity as a Pakistani and replacing it with a common pseudo-Indian identity that does not exist. What frivolity!

If you are so fond of your Indian identity, you may like to settle in India - taakay tumhein apni auqat ka pata lag sakay.

 

[FaujHistorian]

......
But not at the cost of handing over my identity as a Pakistani and replacing it with a common pseudo-Indian identity .

that's a strange statement. Did you read my post?

Only uneducated and illiterate people would make such statements.

As humans we all share some basic characteristics. Does that snatch our identity?

Heck even brothers born to the same mom dad have unique identity.

Then why on earth you will be so complexed about Pakistani identity.

An Indian Punjabi doesn't have the capacity to "replace" Pakistani identity in Multan
An Indian Sindhi doesn't have the capacity to "replace" Pakistani identity of a guy born in Sakhar.
An Indian Bihari doesn't have the capacity to "replace" Pakistani identity of a guy born in Karachi to Bihari forefathers.


We all can be proud Pakistanis and still admire our commonality with other human beings.

And that my dear dear poster, will not, cannot replace Pakistani identity. Ever!


peace

 

[Ticker]

that's a strange statement. Did you read my post?

Only uneducated and illiterate people would make such statements.

As humans we all share some basic characteristics. Does that snatch our identity?

Heck even brothers born to the same mom dad have unique identity.

Then why on earth you will be so complexed about Pakistani identity.

An Indian Punjabi doesn't have the capacity to "replace" Pakistani identity in Multan
An Indian Sindhi doesn't have the capacity to "replace" Pakistani identity of a guy born in Sakhar.
An Indian Bihari doesn't have the capacity to "replace" Pakistani identity of a guy born in Karachi to Bihari forefathers.


We all can be proud Pakistanis and still admire our commonality with other human beings.

And that my dear dear poster, will not, cannot replace Pakistani identity. Ever!


peace

Yes I am uneducated and illiterate, but I am still a Pakistani.

Yeah, all humans on this earth belong to community of human beings, where some are more equal than others.

Bad luck, you were not placed on earth with Adam to become part of one such community. Read that history, it may surprise you even.

I am only a Pakistani and this is the only identity I have.

You started with Pakistan - India commonality of identity and has now expanded it to the whole world. Which is your next destination - Mars!

 

[Wickerman]

Yes I am uneducated and illiterate, but I am still a Pakistani.

Yeah, all humans on this earth belong to community of human beings, where some are more equal than others.

Bad luck, you were not placed on earth with Adam to become part of one such community. Read that history, it may surprise you even.

I am only a Pakistani and this is the only identity I have.

You started with Pakistan - India commonality of identity and has now expanded it to the whole world. Which is your next destination - Mars!

I think you missed his whole point. Dont get me wrong. I was born decades after independence. I consider myself Indian. Only Indian. Not Pakistani by any means. I also do not believe that today, our cultures are the same ON A BROAD LEVEL.

But there ARE some commonalities. For instance, in the type of food we have eaten traditionally and still do (rotis, curry, sabzi, kebabs, biryanis etc), the languages we speak (Hindi, Punjabi, Urdu etc), the religions that we follow (Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam etc). These are also cultural aspects.

There are also aspects of history that we undoubtedly SHARE. Its reality, its the truth. Whoever lives in Pakistan today, weren't imported from mars. Some of them lived in India. Similarly, whoever lives in India today weren't imported from mars. Some of them lived in Pakistan. Case in point, I have 2 friends from Delhi. One of them is a Punjabi. His father was 2 years old, when his grandmother carried him from Pakistan, and came to Delhi. I have another friend, and he is Sindhi. His grandmother was 8 months pregnant with his father, when she had to walk all the way from Pakistan to India. Where do you think the histories of these people lie? In India?! Like Chennai for example?! No! Its in Pakistan, somewhere.

There were also families that were broken in the partition. Some of them, vehemently chose to remain in their respective cities, because those were their homes. Sometimes, husbands left their wives and left for the other country. Sometimes wives made that decision.

So 65 years ago, our histories split. But the world is an old place. Its just that we are young countries. This also means, we shared the same history until about 65 years ago. Thats what FaujH means when he says, there are commonalities and that we are "sons of the soil". Here he doesnt mean a Pakistani is an Indian, he means to say that many Pakistanis have roots in India. And many Indians in Pakistan.

I am damn sure FaujH is a proud Pakistani, just like I am a proud Indian. Its not the identity of TODAY he is talking about. He is talking about the shared history a few generations earlier. That shared history is there to stay, for time immemorial. No one can reverse it.

 

[Ticker]

I think you missed his whole point. Dont get me wrong. I was born decades after independence. I consider myself Indian. Only Indian. Not Pakistani by any means. I also do not believe that today, our cultures are the same ON A BROAD LEVEL.

But there ARE some commonalities. For instance, in the type of food we have eaten traditionally and still do (rotis, curry, sabzi, kebabs, biryanis etc), the languages we speak (Hindi, Punjabi, Urdu etc), the religions that we follow (Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam etc). These are also cultural aspects.

There are also aspects of history that we undoubtedly SHARE. Its reality, its the truth. Whoever lives in Pakistan today, weren't imported from mars. Some of them lived in India. Similarly, whoever lives in India today weren't imported from mars. Some of them lived in Pakistan. Case in point, I have 2 friends from Delhi. One of them is a Punjabi. His father was 2 years old, when his grandmother carried him from Pakistan, and came to Delhi. I have another friend, and he is Sindhi. His grandmother was 8 months pregnant with his father, when she had to walk all the way from Pakistan to India. Where do you think the histories of these people lie? In India?! Like Chennai for example?! No! Its in Pakistan, somewhere.

There were also families that were broken in the partition. Some of them, vehemently chose to remain in their respective cities, because those were their homes. Sometimes, husbands left their wives and left for the other country. Sometimes wives made that decision.

So 65 years ago, our histories split. But the world is an old place. Its just that we are young countries. This also means, we shared the same history until about 65 years ago. Thats what FaujH means when he says, there are commonalities and that we are "sons of the soil". Here he doesnt mean a Pakistani is an Indian, he means to say that many Pakistanis have roots in India. And many Indians in Pakistan.

I am damn sure FaujH is a proud Pakistani, just like I am a proud Indian. Its not the identity of TODAY he is talking about. He is talking about the shared history a few generations earlier. That shared history is there to stay, for time immemorial. No one can reverse it.

I respect your viewpoint, and your endeavour to explain what you thought, he meant.

It all started when he connoted that "we (people of Pak-India) are sons of the same soil".

We are not. That's what I said. We belong to two different countries and two different nations and how can we be sons of the same soil.

Surprisingly, you as an Indian understands his viewpoint and I as a Pakistani and his countryman, do not.

This is indicative of his inclination.

 

[SamantK]

This is indicative of his inclination.

No it is indicative of you narrow minded and bigoted POV..

 

[FaujHistorian]

I respect your viewpoint, and your endeavour to explain what you thought, he meant.

It all started when he connoted that "we (people of Pak-India) are sons of the same soil".

We are not. That's what I said. We belong to two different countries and two different nations and how can we be sons of the same soil.

Surprisingly, you as an Indian understands his viewpoint and I as a Pakistani and his countryman, do not.

This is indicative of his inclination.

Ticker Yar,

Who made you the self-styled Mullah who determines the "inclinations" of other people?

Do you carry a stamp of Pakistani Identity in your pocket? if so who gave you that stamp? Must be a Mullah sitting in a darkened hujra.

I am sorry to say that you have not contributed much to the military history, and continue posting willy nilly on minor side issues who have nothing to do with military or history.


If you want to cr@p on threads and do the Pakistani-Mullah vs. Indian Mullah fights, please find some other thread.

This is pathetic that you are constantly trolling and picking fights where there are none.


Take a hike or come back with something that contributes to the thread being discussed.

If you do not know, post a question.

If you know then share that view point about MH please.,


Thank you

 

[Ticker]

No it is indicative of you narrow minded and bigoted POV..

So are you a son of Pakistani soil and therefore a Pakistani.

 

[SamantK]

So are you a son of Pakistani soil and, is therefore a Pakistani.

I'm from India which is part of the Indian sub-continent, which Pakistan is a part too.. Capish?

 

[Wickerman]

It all started when he connoted that "we (people of Pak-India) are sons of the same soil".

We are not. That's what I said. We belong to two different countries and two different nations and how can we be sons of the same soil.

Surprisingly, you as an Indian understands his viewpoint and I as a Pakistani and his countryman, do not.

This is indicative of his inclination.

I explained to you what the "we are sons of the soil" phrase meant. It isnt about TODAY. It is about history. That history cant be denied. Cuz it actually happened!!

Yes you are Pakistani. You are NOT Indian. I dont expect you to have Indian identity, or consider India as your country or have any patriotism or attachment towards it. The feeling is mutual.

Now lets move beyond that shall we?

I as an Indian understand his viewpoint but you dont? Its not that you dont, you are just being difficult for the heck of it probably because in your mind you dont like the fact that both countries had a shared history in the past. So you wanna reject it, but you cant counter facts. So you just wanna distort the meaning of a sentence. Maybe the relations between both countries have been ruined so much, that you feel this way. And you want every Pakistani dude to be anti-Indian to be accepted as a fellow country man by you. If that is the case I understand. But thats your problem, your bigotry. You probably have a chip on your shoulder.

BTW just for your information, apart from the flag you fly, how would I know you are Pakistani? If I met you in lets say New York, YOU would have to tell me that you are from Pakistan. Since I am from South India, I wouldnt have a clue whether you are from Pakistan or North west India. So this whole useless argument about another person's inclination is BS.

 

[INDIC]

It is easy to say about 3 dominant ethnicities of Pakistan that both Indians and Pakistanis share the same soil,


1. Sindhis share the Sindh soil both Indians and Pakistanis. Thus their histories are same as their geography.
2. Urdu Speaking share UP and Bihar and old Hyderabad Deccan. Thus their histories are same as their geography.
3. Punjabis share the soil of Punjab. Thus both Indians and Pakistanis share the Punjabi history and geography.

These three constitute almost 160+ million people of Pakistan out of a total of 200 millions.


Pashtuns though do not have direct share of modern day India. However most of the cities of KPK have a long history with Indians as far as Kolkatta. All thanks to the Grand Trunk Road (GT Road).


So when I talk about sharing histories, you gotta understand the proper reference,

The parts we share, we should be proud,

and the parts where we are unique, we should be proud.


Just remember that Europeans share a history even though they can still maintain their distinct identities.

Every Gora is not an Englishman

And

Every Brown is not an Indian.

Only uneducated people would equate all goras or all browns or all blacks or all ...........



peace

I never expected such thing coming from a Pakistani. Few people used comment like this, "I am related only Indian Punjabis", Other guys told me," I am related only to people of UP".

Ticker once told his ancestors has contributions in development of Urdu language in North India.

 

[Ticker]

Ticker Yar,

Who made you the self-styled Mullah who determines the "inclinations" of other people?

Do you carry a stamp of Pakistani Identity in your pocket? if so who gave you that stamp? Must be a Mullah sitting in a darkened hujra.

I am sorry to say that you have not contributed much to the military history, and continue posting willy nilly on minor side issues who have nothing to do with military or history.


If you want to cr@p on threads and do the Pakistani-Mullah vs. Indian Mullah fights, please find some other thread.

This is pathetic that you are constantly trolling and picking fights where there are none.


Take a hike or come back with something that contributes to the thread being discussed.

If you do not know, post a question.

If you know then share that view point about MH please.,


Thank you

ha ha ha .......

Why is it that when a Pakistani disagrees with you, he is straightaway branded as a Mulla by you. Is it that you want some sort of recognition from the so-called modernist elites or libertarians, or what. Or is it that you want to become more of a libertarian than the libertarian elite itself.

I have a right to express my viewpoint - you don't like it, please don't respond.

I also have a right to challenge your viewpoint, however frivolous it may be, as you have a right to respond to mine.

I am not a listener here, particularly when you issue your bellicose fatwas and challenge Pakistani identity.

And I don't hear jingle bells from a tin horn.

I never expected such thing coming from a Pakistani. Few people used comment like this, "I am related only Indian Punjabis", Other guys told me," I am related only to people of UP".

Ticker once told his ancestors has contributions in development of Urdu language in North India.

Ahhhh .... I do have a short memory. Did I.

 

[Ticker]

I'm from India which is part of the Indian sub-continent, which Pakistan is a part too.. Capish?

Thank you for your answer. That is exactly what I was trying to tell the FaujiH Fatwa Giver.

 

[SamantK]

Thank you for your answer. That is exactly what I was trying to tell the FaujiH Fatwa Giver.

Yes and he was talking about the Indian sub continent which was united under British and was called British India and I think FaujiH was talking about that history..

 

[Wickerman]

Ahhhh .... I do have a short memory

Of course you do You forgot history