South Korean Ships Instead of Trainer Aircraft

[Adir-M]

Representatives from the South Korean government and Hyundai shipyards recently visited Israel and offered to construct new surface vessels for the navy

Despite South Korea’s loss in the competition for supplying an advanced trainer aircraft to the Israeli Air Force, which caused considerable disappointment in Seoul, South Korea is offering to procure new surface vessels for the Israeli Navy via Hyundai shipyards. South Korean representatives have already visited Israel and met with the Ministry of Defense to discuss a possible deal.
While there is no budget to construct the vessels, the Israeli Navy needs missile boats that are more advanced and larger than the Saar 5 model currently in use. According to a source involved with the issue, the contacts are preliminary, but ongoing.
Iran’s increased activity in the Mediterranean has compelled the navy to procure additional combat vessels. Until several months ago, it seemed that there was a good chance that Israel Shipyards in Haifa would become the manufacturer for advanced missile boats. While the government has yet to approve large investments for the shipyards, at one point, it seemed that the situation changed and that the chance for an investment was close.
The Ministry of Defense first looked into procuring LCS vessels from the US, but their price skyrokceted, so the idea was abandoned. A later possibility was for Germany to construct vessels; however, this plan also fell through, as Germany was unwilling to fund part of the deal.
Israel Shipyards proposed a program in which it would absorb hundreds of employees while investing in a new manufacturing layout that would allow the company to construct Saar 5.5 vessels, with a displacement of 2,100 tons.
The idea to have Israel Shipyards enter the field of advanced vessels for naval forces relied on projections of an increased global demand and that the navy would seek the procurement of an additional 100 combat vessels within the next decade. These estimates represent an enormous market, and according to experts, it would be enough for Israel Shipyards to accept orders for 10 such vessels to cover the necessary investments for attaining the capability needed to manufacture them.
The Israeli Ministry of Defense even approached the treasury with a request to assist Israel Shipyards with financial aid to turn the company into a central manufacturer of medium-sized combat vessels. However, at present, this plan is stuck.
Representatives from the South Korean government and Hyundai Shipyards arrived in Israel to offer the navy surface vessels with a displacement of 1,300 tons. As is, Seoul is aware that Israel is only interested in the skeleton of the vessel, since various Israeli defense industries would install Israeli-made systems onboard, including radar and missiles.
The discovery of gas and oil fields in the Mediterranean off Israel’s coast also increased the need for new surface vessels. This is a complicated task, primarily because of the considerable threats posed by Hezbollah and other terror organizations seeking to hurt Israeli facilities at sea.

The Saar 5 missile boat (Photo: Itai Cohen, “BaMahane”)

 

[Korean]

This doesn't do to rebuild the burned bridges with the ROK. The Korean shipbuilding industry is already world-class and there is no state support for deals like this, don't expect any 150% offset deals like the ones offered for the T-50 deal, and the ban on Israeli weapons in competitive bidding is still in place, even more damaging considering the fact that Korea is the world's no. 2 arms importer and Israel is shut out of this massive market.

Israel clearly didn't understand what they were doing when they picked the M-346 over the T-50, as the T-50 sales to Israel was of the highest priority because of the need to build a sales history before the USAF T-X bidding, and Israel did do a significant damage to Korea with the M-346 selection, so the retribution in the form of a ban on Israeli companies is unavoidable.

 

[Adir-M]

South Korean representatives have already visited Israel and met with the Ministry of Defense to discuss a possible deal.

You should stop dreaming. South Korea military industry is quite good but it's far from being perfect. With this attitude you will lose more then you will gain. In my opinion israel should start develop it's own ship industry that will suit to our navy needs . We have done that before with sa'ar 4 missile ships and we definitely can do it agine.

http://www.israel-shipyards.com/

 

[PteX]

This doesn't do to rebuild the burned bridges with the ROK. The Korean shipbuilding industry is already world-class and there is no state support for deals like this, don't expect any 150% offset deals like the ones offered for the T-50 deal, and the ban on Israeli weapons in competitive bidding is still in place, even more damaging considering the fact that Korea is the world's no. 2 arms importer and Israel is shut out of this massive market.

Israel clearly didn't understand what they were doing when they picked the M-346 over the T-50, as the T-50 sales to Israel was of the highest priority because of the need to build a sales history before the USAF T-X bidding, and Israel did do a significant damage to Korea with the M-346 selection, so the retribution in the form of a ban on Israeli companies is unavoidable.

One does not think "Oh, No! Anyone but South Korea..." when thinking about enemies to fear.

I like Korean girls though.

 

[Adir-M]

I like Korean girls though.

me-2

 

[Audio]

Israel clearly didn't understand what they were doing when they picked the M-346 over the T-50, as the T-50 sales to Israel was of the highest priority because of the need to build a sales history before the USAF T-X bidding, and Israel did do a significant damage to Korea with the M-346 selection, so the retribution in the form of a ban on Israeli companies is unavoidable.

I thought it was about Italy actually signing a contract for Gulfstream AWACS, while Korea only indicated it would buy Israeli equipment but never put anything in writing.
I could be wrong though.

 

[Korean]

You should stop dreaming. South Korea military industry is quite good but it's far from being perfect.

There is why there is a massive state support to close deals on aviation industry, but not for naval industry.

With this attitude you will lose more then you will gain.

At least there is nothing more to lose in dealing with Israelis; it is only Israeli contractors that stand to be shut out of billions of dollars worth deals. Just remember that the very people who evaluates bids are the very same people who were desperately trying to sell T-50 to Israel, so you can figure out how they will treat Israeli bids from now on.

BTW, this Israeli naval ship deal is not even a news in Korea as no media is reporting it, and no one's discussing it. Basically it is an insignificant deal for the Korean government, which is redirecting its efforts on closing the T/FA-50 deals with Iraq and UAE instead, and the state support goes to these countries instead.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

why would anyone pick the inferior T-50 over the proven M-346?

That's the extent of Korean aerospace experience anyhow - a simple trainer plane. They're still stuck on assembling US models with imported parts. Korea, as noted, is the 2nd largest arms importer in the world. They are nowhere near the level where they can export anything.

Here's the facts: Israel can get whatever it wants from the US. If it can't get that, it can make it itself. Why would it get anything from Korea, which is just 2nd hand US stuff?

 

[Korean]

why would anyone pick the inferior T-50 over the proven M-346?

Because it's faster and flies higher than M-346. It can fire real weapons too, unlike M-346.

They're still stuck on assembling US models with imported parts.

T-50 was engineered by the Ching Kuo team. It's actually more of Taiwanese than American. Lockheed Martin's role was design validation and the supply of avionics, not the airframe engineering.

But doesn't matter, the current version is Block 2 completely redesigned over by the local industry with double the payload capacity, it is to original T-50 what the F-15E is to the F-15C/D. It will come within 90% of an F-16 Block 52's flying profile with the upgraded F414 engine.

Korea, as noted, is the 2nd largest arms importer in the world.

Mostly parts, rarely the whole thing.

Here's the facts: Israel can get whatever it wants from the US.

Israel didn't get F-22 and F/A-117. The can't get the latest bunkerbusters either.

If it can't get that, it can make it itself.

Assuming Israel has money. They are actually short on cash.

Why would it get anything from Korea

Israeli defense industry lobbied for T-50 over M-346.

 

[Adir-M]

It can fire real weapons

Israel air force didn't look for light attack jet.

The can't get the latest bunkerbusters either.

Obama administration 'supplied bunker-busting bombs to Israel'
source:Obama administration 'supplied bunker-busting bombs to Israel' | World news | guardian.co.uk

Israel didn't get F-22 and F/A-117.

U.S.A did'nt consider to sold f-22 even to UK. Israel purch the f-35.

Assuming Israel has money. They are actually short on cash.

We have respected defence budget.

israeli defense industry lobbied for T-50 over M-346.

Israel Air Force recommends buying training jets from Italy witch is more important then israeli defense industry


Singapore chooses Italy's M-346 Trainer Jet,S. Korea fails to export T-50 trainer jets to Singapore.
source:Source: Singapore chooses Italy's M-346 Trainer Jet | Defense News | defensenews.com

UAE chooses M-346 as advanced lead-in fighter trainer
source:http://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...6-as-advanced-lead-in-fighter-trainer-323077/

 

[Korean]

Israel air force didn't look for light attack jet.

T-50's flight envelop is superior to M-346's.

U.S.A did'nt consider to sold f-22 even to UK. Israel purch the f-35.

UnfairAndBiased was arguging that Israel could get any arsenal in the US military inventory excluding nuclear missiles.

We have respected defence budget.

Even the M-346 deal has run into money trouble. Doubt Mounts Over Italian-Israeli Trainer Deal | Defense News | defensenews.com

Israel Air Force recommends buying training jets from Italy witch is more important then israeli defense industry

And good luck selling arms to bankrupt Italy.

Singapore chooses Italy's M-346 Trainer Jet

Cheaper, not better.

UAE chooses M-346 as advanced lead-in fighter trainer

The UAE deal is back to square one, because of Alenia Aermacchi's inability to come up with an armed version. This is why UAE is now on the Korean government's next target. The Korean government agency is planning to close two more deals(one is Iraq with its F/A-50 inquiry, the other is either UAE or Poland) before the 350 unit USAF T-X contest.

 

[Adir-M]

And good luck selling arms to bankrupt Italy.

As part of the deal, Italy committed to defense procurement from Israel, which includes the procurement of two IAI-produced early warning aircraft.
Israel Defense | Agreement for Procuring the IAF

 

[Adir-M]

 

[Korean]

There is simply no comparison between aerodynamic performance of T-50 and M-346.

 

[breeze]

There is no such thing as South Korean technology, everything technological about South Korea is based off of, taken or stolen from the US. Why would Israel choose an inferior Korean T-50 over the proven M-346? It just doesn't make any sense.