Solving Pakistan Navy's Ship Problem

[Penguin]

What is so different in between them that you say apple and oranges? also is Type-54A is better to fulfill the needs of PN?

Compiled from various sources
Type 056 = 1,300 tons Standard; 1,440 tons Full Load
F22P = 2,500 tons standard; 3,144 ton full load
C28A = 2,880 tons standard; over 3,000 but (well) under 4,000 tons full load
Type 054 = ? tons standard, 4,300 tons full load
Type 054A = 3,600 tons standard, at least 4,050 tons full load

The 054/A is a far larger ship (25% or so).

 

[Luftwaffe]

Than u want to relay on just F 22 frigate to save us from indian talwar class destroyers we need bigger ships with more fire power dont relay on one system

Again It all comes down to two things procurement budget and requirements.

I don't think Pakistan would go for Corvettes but if Fund available Turkish either TF-100 MILGEM Frigates, Chinese Type 54A/B Frigates and more FACs could be the most likely possibility. I think all rumors of Ada Class MILGEM should be put to rest as no credible Information is available and no wikipedia should not be believed in this regards.

I would like to know however about F-22P any upgrades planned along with the additional 4 F-22P.

 

[ni8mare]

Than u want to relay on just F 22 frigate to save us from indian talwar class destroyers we need bigger ships with more fire power dont relay on one system

talwar class is frigate not destroyer ....delhi . ....kolkata class are destroyer

 

[Abingdonboy]

Than u want to relay on just F 22 frigate to save us from indian talwar class destroyers we need bigger ships with more fire power dont relay on one system

Talwar Class are only 4,000 ton Frigates NOT destroyers.

 

[Super Falcon]

Ok sorry sorry for mistake my appologies talwar or whatever do you think PN has something other than F 22 most of our navy has junk system nothing new same for army and airforcw
Army other than AK everything is of 80 era
Airforce other than jf 17 again we bought them in 80s
Navy other than agosta and F 22 everthing is been begged junk from other navies last 30 years we bought 5 to 8 new systems

 

[Penguin]

It should be noted that with the introduction of the P17 Shivalik class ships, the difference between frigate and destroyer has begun to blur as far as size and displacement are concerned. Key criteria should be intended role and capabilities of sensors/weapons. Shivalik is more ASW oriented, Kolkata is more AAW oriented. Talwar is a development of the Russian Krivak frigate, modelled on the design of the P17.

IN Destroyers

Rajput / Kashin clas
Displacement:4,974 tonnes full load
Length:147 m (482 ft)
Beam:15.8 m (52 ft)
Draught:5 m (16 ft)

P15
Displacement:6,200 tonnes (full)
Length:163 m (535 ft)
Beam:17.4 m (57 ft)
Draught:6.5 m (21 ft)

P15A
Displacement: 7,500 tons
Length:163 meters
Beam: 17.4 meters

IN Frigates

Nilgiri class
Displacement:2,682 tons (standard)
2,962 tons (full load)
Length:113 m
Beam:13 m
Draught:4.3 m

P-16/16A
Displacement:
Standard:3,600 tonnes
Full load: 3,850 tonnes
Length:126.4 m (414 ft 8 in)
Beam:14.5 m (47 ft 7 in)
Draught:4.5 m (14 ft 9 in)

Talwar class 11356
Displacement:
Standard: 3,850 tonnes
Full load: 4,035 tonnes
Length:124.8 metres
Beam:15.2 metres
Draught:4.2 metres

P17
Displacement:6,200 tonnes (6,100 long tons; 6,800 short tons) full load
Length:142.5 m (468 ft)
Beam:16.9 m (55 ft)
Draught:4.5 m (15 ft)

 

[Abingdonboy]

It should be noted that with the introduction of the P17 Shivalik class ships, the difference between frigate and destroyer has begun to blur as far as size and displacement are concerned. Key criteria should be intended role and capabilities of sensors/weapons. Shivalik is more ASW oriented, Kolkata is more AAW oriented. Talwar is a development of the Russian Krivak frigate, modelled on the design of the P17.

IN Destroyers

Rajput / Kashin clas
Displacement:4,974 tonnes full load
Length:147 m (482 ft)
Beam:15.8 m (52 ft)
Draught:5 m (16 ft)

P15
Displacement:6,200 tonnes (full)
Length:163 m (535 ft)
Beam:17.4 m (57 ft)
Draught:6.5 m (21 ft)

P15A
Displacement: 7,500 tons
Length:163 meters
Beam: 17.4 meters

IN Frigates

Nilgiri class
Displacement:2,682 tons (standard)
2,962 tons (full load)
Length:113 m
Beam:13 m
Draught:4.3 m

P-16/16A
Displacement:
Standard:3,600 tonnes
Full load: 3,850 tonnes
Length:126.4 m (414 ft 8 in)
Beam:14.5 m (47 ft 7 in)
Draught:4.5 m (14 ft 9 in)

Talwar class 11356
Displacement:
Standard: 3,850 tonnes
Full load: 4,035 tonnes
Length:124.8 metres
Beam:15.2 metres
Draught:4.2 metres

P17
Displacement:6,200 tonnes (6,100 long tons; 6,800 short tons) full load
Length:142.5 m (468 ft)
Beam:16.9 m (55 ft)
Draught:4.5 m (15 ft)

Nice assessment and my thoughts are similar. However I am wondering how the P-17A fits into this as it will have improved AAW capabilities over the P-17s (new VSR and the EL/M-2248 MF-STAR) bringing it practically on terms with the P-15A. The final sensor/weapon suites of the P-15B remain unclear as of now.

 

[Penguin]

Nice assessment and my thoughts are similar. However I am wondering how the P-17A fits into this as it will have improved AAW capabilities over the P-17s (new VSR and the EL/M-2248 MF-STAR) bringing it practically on terms with the P-15A. The final sensor/weapon suites of the P-15B remain unclear as of now.

Perhaps a move to a single base design, with 2-3 variants, would be a smart move (e.g. Spruance, Kidd, Ticonderoga) . Then again, consider the soviets operated the Udaloy anti-submarine ship and the Sovremenny anti-surface and AAW destroyer side by side...

Udaloy
Displacement:6,930 tons standard, 7,570 tons full load
Length:163 m
Beam:19.3 m
Draught:6.2 m

Sovremenny
Displacement:


6,200 tons standard, 7,940 tons full load
Length:156 m
Beam:17.3 m
Draught:6.5 m

 

[Penguin]

 

[Penguin]

Then what is the use of having built 1 F22P 'at home'?


Please compare the 3rd ship from the left (C28A, a further development on the F22P, for Algeria, with Western CMS and radar) and with the first ship (056), which is HALF the tonnage. This limits its sensor and weapons capability, aviation as well as its sea keeping and endurance.

Details and a near-definitive model of the C28A first emerged during the DSA show. According to CSTC officials, the ship is about 120 m in length, with a beam of 14.4 m, a draft of 3.87 m, a standard displacement of about 2,880 tons, and a full-load displacement of more than 3,000 tons.
Chinese sources suggest it is an evolution of Pakistan's F-22P on the basis that Algerian naval teams visited Pakistan to see that frigate's operations first-hand. The C28A also appears to borrow design elements from the Type 054A frigate of the Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy.
The C-28A's combat system is largely Chinese with the exception of the Thales Smart-S Mk 2, associated multifunction operator consoles (MOC)/Tacticos cluster, Link Y datalinks, and associated consoles. Four or so MOC for the Smart-S are integrated with a CSTC-supplied combat management system (CMS).
Weapons include a single 76 mm gun - the export variant of which is known as NG-16-1 - two quad launchers for C-802 or C-802A anti-ship missiles mounted transversely amidships, an octuple FM-90N launcher for short-range HQ-7 surface-to-air missiles, two 30 mm Type 730B close-in weapons systems (CIWS) similar to the ones on the F-22P, two triple-tube torpedo launchers that fire through an opening in the hull, and four 24-barreled decoy launchers.
As well as the Smart-S Mk 2, sensors include two navigation radars - an I-band (X-band) set and an E/F-band (S-band) set - that are thought to be Kelvin Hughes SharpEye radars. The C28A also has a radome for what is likely to be a Type 364 radar, two fire control radars (FCR) from the Type 47 family, and what looks like a Type 343G FCR with a combined radar and electro-optic system that is identical to the sets mounted on the F-22P.
The electronic warfare (EW) suite appears to be similar to the F-22P's. Speculation that its sonar will be of Chinese origin has yet to be confirmed.
The propulsion system consists of four MTU diesels. In a departure from existing designs, there is no funnel stack. Instead, the diesels exhaust near the waterline as they do on MEKO-type frigates to minimise infrared signatures. Top speed is expected to be around 30 kts. The hull has two sets of fin stabilisers as well as bilge keels.
The ship has hangars for boats and a helicopter. The latter will presumably be able to accommodate one of the AgustaWestland AW-159 Wildcat helicopters in service with the Algerian Navy.
First Algerian C28A corvette launched in China - IHS Jane's 360