Six supporters of hardline Indonesian cleric killed in shootout

[striver44]

@Place Of Space

Chinese Indonesian Muslim girl prefer getting married with native Indonesian Muslim

Isyana Sarasvati with his native Indonesian husband

View attachment 695228

Isyana is chinese???

 

[Indos]

Isyana is chinese???

Actually I dont know for sure

There is no information regarding that thing and she always said she comes from Bandung (Sundanese), but the feature look like Chinese.

This is white skin native Indonesian for example

This is Isyana Sarasvati

 

[striver44]

Actually I dont know for sure

There is no information regarding that thing and she always said she comes from Bandung (Sundanese), but the feature look like Chinese.

This is white skin native Indonesian for example

View attachment 695252

This is Isyana Sarasvati

she's clearly not chinese.

 

[Indos]

she's clearly not chinese.

That doesnt matter I can bring my own family story here, my older brother married with Chinese Indonesian Muslim (she even previously almost marry Chinese mainland girl directly from China when he works in Erricson in China, the girl is Human Resource Manager).

My oldest brother also has romantic story with Chinese Indonesian but failed due to religious differences. As I said this rivalry only happen in man's world

 

[Whizzack]

It's about time! The state really need to rein in such groups... The police has previously been reluctant to confront them... but it seems their patience has finally run out...

The FPI call themselves the Islamic Defenders Front and claims to be protecting Indonesian Muslims... not sure what they are protecting from considering Indonesia is already the most populous Muslim majority country in the world... Many of their acts are more like those of vigilante groups, creating tensions, and at times operate as if they are above the law... though they would also do charity work from time to time to win heart and minds...

Their leader, a cleric, claims to be the descendant of the Prophet and styled himself as the "Great Imam" of the Muslim ummah in Indonesia... At times it seems as if he's trying to emulate the style of the late Imam Khomeini of Iran, even though he's a Sunni himself..

 

[EasyNow]

Indonesia has got some major problems coming it's way.

You can never be too religious in a religious society. People compete with each other and views that are extreme today, become more acceptable. Sharia punishments, lashing, amputations, have growing support.

The more insidious change to come is growing intolerance of other religions, other sects and finally of other imams - even in the same village.

Once the minorities are marginalised, these societies always turn on themselves as poverty and alienation from other countries increases.

Small group in Indonesia, very small, only comprised of Betawi ethnic living in certain region in Jakarta who follow Habib Riziq. Even me as a famous hard core Islamist in this PDF doesnt support that group, FPI can endanger Islamist group goal by acting like an emotional girl in Indonesian politics.

They just violate many regulation, including Covid 19 measures, doing large gathering, rejecting to get Covid test, rejecting any government policy without seeing whether the policy is right or not like Omnibus Law.

Habib Rizieq is not a leader in 212 movement, 212 movement is supported by Giant Islamic organization like Muhammadiyah that likely become the inspiration of Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt as Muhammadiyah emerge much earlier than MB. MUI also supported 212 movement, even NU.

The writer has zero knowledge about Indonesian politics.

Who puts a cap on how much Islam Muhammadiya will deliver? Aren't they just an early stage version of FPI?

Also you mention they soldiers claim to fight for Islam not the state - how is that a good thing? They are paid to protect the country, not serve a wider community.

 

[NiceDay]

@Place Of Space

Chinese Indonesian Muslim girl prefer getting married with native Indonesian Muslim

Isyana Sarasvati with his native Indonesian husband

View attachment 695228

Everyone is free to choose their partner, but if one day Dilireba Dilmurat is dating with Han Chinese, I hope your compartiot doesn't spread propaganda about Uyghur being assimilated.

 

[Indos]

Indonesia has got some major problems coming it's way.

You can never be too religious in a religious society. People compete with each other and views that are extreme today, become more acceptable. Sharia punishments, lashing, amputations, have growing support.

The more insidious change to come is growing intolerance of other religions, other sects and finally of other imams - even in the same village.

Once the minorities are marginalised, these societies always turn on themselves as poverty and alienation from other countries increases.


Who puts a cap on how much Islam Muhammadiya will deliver? Aren't they just an early stage version of FPI?

Also you mention they soldiers claim to fight for Islam not the state - how is that a good thing? They are paid to protect the country, not serve a wider community.

Early stages ??? Muhammadiyah is formed in 1912 and the teaching is still similar until now. The first Indonesia Armed Force General, Sudirman, is Muhammadiyah activist and the organization keep giving its best people to serve the nation since then.

Indonesia itself is originated from Syarikat Islam movement during Dutch occupation, so Indonesia and Islam cannot be separated. Indonesia is later become a compromise between Islamist and Nationalist leaders.

The soldiers also said they will fight for the state, but he said later after fighting (rought translation) for religion comes earlier. Actually, serving Islam doesnt mean we are against the state, as helping people, keeping freedom of religion, doing business or working, nurturing family and others are part of Islam as well.

Pancasila, our national ideology, has first principle that said Indonesia as a state bases on worshiping one and the only God. It is clear that we should put God above any thing. If you put state above God it means you have make a state as another God which means you have made the biggest sin in Islam and the sin cannot be forgiven unless you repent.

Talking about politics. The key is accepting differences and let democracy solve the dispute. By doing that, nation will be saved from civil war and the economy will still grow. Solving dispute through war, oppresing, jailing, and killing another opposing group will lead to disaster like happening in Syria, Yemen, Libya, Afghanistan and others, and that is a primitive way in running a country.

I know your country of origin Bangladesh hasnt yet reach the stage where Islamist and Secular can live and develop the nation together with fair competition between them. Rather than criticizing Indonesia, better you guys see us as a good model for your future nation.

Actually there are also other group like Nationalist Religious that exist in our country, so our democracy is not like Republic and Democrat fight like happening in USA, Indonesia democracy is better and there are parties that can change side if the other group has better program. So it is not surprising if Jokowi administration also has several Islamist party backing in the parliament.

FPI mentality is like happening in Egyptian/Thailand democracy where they cannot play base on the rule of the game (democracy). They dont want to obey state rule anymore despite Jokowi has won the election and become a legitimate ruler. This happen when Habib Rizieq come back to Indonesia. What he does since his come back is de-legitimazing the state like breaking Covid measure and other stuff.

 

[Place Of Space]

That doesnt matter I can bring my own family story here, my older brother married with Chinese Indonesian Muslim (she even previously almost marry Chinese mainland girl directly from China when he works in Erricson in China, the girl is Human Resource Manager).

My oldest brother also has romantic story with Chinese Indonesian but failed due to religious differences. As I said this rivalry only happen in man's world

How many brothers you have? Your mom must do a lot contribution to your family.

 

[jamahir]

Communist IMO is intended to secular PDI-P party which is lead by Soekarno family, you know Soekarno is accused as pro Communist by historian and Islamist. Many also believe communist follower, despite very small, has infiltrated PDI-P. We can see Youtube video that tried to mislead the history by saying Indonesia communist party never killed those Armed Force General in 1966. It shows they do exist, but I believe Communist calling in Indonesia is more intended to mock PDI-P supporter.

Hmm, I got some info from your post.

 

[NiceDay]

That is massacre of Muslim according to your standard.

no, they are not his favorite, they are wahhabi wannabe while he is a turkish wannabe (before edorgan became hostile to western countries)

 

[Indos]

How many brothers you have? Your mom must do a lot contribution to your family.

Indonesian in the old days do have many kids, but nowadays only 2-3 kids. I have brothers and sisters. Thats all what I can say. Yup, in Islam, we regard mother three times more than father.

 

[Indos]

Everyone is free to choose their partner, but if one day Dilireba Dilmurat is dating with Han Chinese, I hope your compartiot doesn't spread propaganda about Uyghur being assimilated.
View attachment 695287

Pretty lady, I dont have any say about her life but I hope she marry Muslim man, whether Han/Uigyur/others so that she can protect her faith. Muslim women is not allowed to marry except for Muslim men.

 

[Place Of Space]

Indonesian in the old days do have many kids, but nowadays only 2-3 kids. I have brothers and sisters. Thats all what I can say. Yup, in Islam, we regard mother three times more than father.

That's interesting. All not person regard mother more than father. You are a good son.

 

[EasyNow]

Early stages ??? Muhammadiyah is formed in 1912 and the teaching is still similar until now. The first Indonesia Armed Force General, Sudirman, is Muhammadiyah activist and the organization keep giving its best people to serve the nation since then.

Indonesia itself is originated from Syarikat Islam movement during Dutch occupation, so Indonesia and Islam cannot be separated. Indonesia is later become a compromise between Islamist and Nationalist leaders.

The soldiers also said they will fight for the state, but he said later after fighting (rought translation) for religion comes earlier. Actually, serving Islam doesnt mean we are against the state, as helping people, keeping freedom of religion, doing business or working, nurturing family and others are part of Islam as well.

Pancasila, our national ideology, has first principle that said Indonesia as a state bases on worshiping one and the only God. It is clear that we should put God above any thing. If you put state above God it means you have make a state as another God which means you have made the biggest sin in Islam and the sin cannot be forgiven unless you repent.

Talking about politics. The key is accepting differences and let democracy solve the dispute. By doing that, nation will be saved from civil war and the economy will still grow. Solving dispute through war, oppresing, jailing, and killing another opposing group will lead to disaster like happening in Syria, Yemen, Libya, Afghanistan and others, and that is a primitive way in running a country.

I know your country of origin Bangladesh hasnt yet reach the stage where Islamist and Secular can live and develop the nation together with fair competition between them. Rather than criticizing Indonesia, better you guys see us as a good model for your future nation.

Actually there are also other group like Nationalist Religious that exist in our country, so our democracy is not like Republic and Democrat fight like happening in USA, Indonesia democracy is better and there are parties that can change side if the other group has better program. So it is not surprising if Jokowi administration also has several Islamist party backing in the parliament.

FPI mentality is like happening in Egyptian/Thailand democracy where they cannot play base on the rule of the game (democracy). They dont want to obey state rule anymore despite Jokowi has won the election and become a legitimate ruler. This happen when Habib Rizieq come back to Indonesia. What he does since his come back is de-legitimazing the state like breaking Covid measure and other stuff.

Early stage does not mean young. I know Muhammadiya is old but it has not reached maturity. It is still vying for mass influence and control, once it has that, it can only get more strict. One can already see this, Muhammadiya is getting more conservative over the years.

once religion is involved in politics its an inevitable race to the bottom. Any Islamic party that says they are not pushing for full Islamic law, will be replaced by someone filling that space.

FPI is extreme like you said, but so is Pakistan's TLP in most people eyes. They gathered during covid, they celebrate murderers and just this month they almost shut the whole country down again. They are the sharp end of a wedge that has taken large swathes of your society behind closed doors.

I'm afraid you are the last generation of Indonesian Muslims, who with all good intentions are welcoming in the Islamic titans. Once they are set in place will start the real battle for Indonesia and normal people will just be fodder.