Simulation Analysis: IAF MIG-29UPG VS SUKHOI-30MKI BVR & DOGFIGHT

[cerberus]

The MiG-29 is one of the IAF's premier Air Defense fighters. Whilst always appreciated for its raw performance, the MiG-29 was not acquired in bulk or series produced in India. Among the primary reasons were the inability of MiG-MAPO to properly support the IAF during its initial service and their continued reluctance to share design data later (design data since the IAF intended to use for optimizing its operation in Indian conditions). Plus there were the spares parts issues caused by the fall of the Soviet Union.

The IAF ultimately, both on its own and with HALs help, started making a lot of the spares locally, and also took over a lot of the maintenance actions. IAF BRDs and their MiG capabilities

Its quite evident that the MiG-29 as such is a very lethal platform. With modern avionics, it can take on & defeat current generation aircraft, including the Block 50 F-16, when properly flown.

Its primary "deficits" were in terms of its older avionics and limited fuel capacity.

The IAF upgrade, which is to SMT level and beyond, addresses these issues.

Original IAF MiG-29s are believed to have received limited upgrades already, including local Tarang RWRs plus improvements to the radar to the N019ME standard.

Avionics

- New databus 1553B standard to incorporate newer avionics

- New mission computers, navigation system (RLG-INS w/GPS + possible Glonass module - Sagem's Sigma95N), Stores Management System, new VRS (Video Recording System) plus DMG (Display Map Generator). VRS and DMG likely to be sourced from Israel or locally.

-Glass cockpit with new HUD, two MFDs, HOTAS

-Zhuk ME MultiFunction radar with A2A/A2G modes; new IFF; Zhuk variant for IAF is Zhuk M2E, with an improved signal processor over Indian Navy MiG-29Ks which received the Zhuk M1E (source:AWST Sharper Eyes for India's MiGs) The improved processor would allow for improved raid assessment, and NCTR (non cooperative target recognition).

NIPP OLS-UE (as on latest MiG-35 and MiG-29K). Has a TV channel. Also has an advanced IR matrix for increased range. For the MiG-35, MiG notes "The IRST system with infra-red, TV and laser sighting equipment has been developed using the space technologies which were not applied previously in aviation. The system distinctive features are the increased range, detection, tracking, identification and lock-on of air, ground/surface targets in the forward and rear hemispheres, at day and night measuring the distance with laser range-finder as well as the formation of target designation and laser illumination of ground targets. The IRST system and new helmet-mounted target designation system are integrated into the armament control system." The IAF SMT upgrade does not have the fuselage mounted pod, so it cannot track ground targets (IAF will use the Litening instead) but rest applies, for the forward facing IRST.

-D-29 EW suite: Developed by DRDO with inhouse high accuracy DF RWR fit which cues AESA jammers. Latter codeveloped with Elettronica. DARE developed a high performance EW system with a scalable, modular architecture. The system can receive signals from multiple channels, process them in an Indian developed signal processing suite, and then devise appropriate jamming countermeasures to be initiated by jammers linked to the output channels. The LCA & MiG-27 Upgrade, both feature conventional Transmitter based jammers but the MiG-29 has an AESA fit developed with Elettronica. This system combines high grade coverage with high ERP (Emitted Radiated Power) for effective countermeasures.

-Improved chaff & flares system: Likely to be the locally developed system by Bharat Dynamics Ltd.

-V/UHF radio fit + IAF datalink. Radios likely to be Software Defined Radios developed by HAL

-VOR/ILS/TACAN from HAL

RAM for both external and internal systems (e.g. likely RAM for radar backend behind antenna array), and cockpit glass improvements (radar reflective coating) likely

• Indian Navy MiG-29K's feature both cockpit glass improvements, shaping improvements (serrated edges near radome), and internal RAM (see Russian Stealth you can touch

IAF MIG-29UPG with TOPSIGHT-I HMDS

ADVANTAGES

1. Mig-29 upg Have Low RCS Compared to MKI & Odinary Mig-29(Key in BVR
2. UPG have better Jamming Capabilities with Virgilius Family Jammers This very same suite is now on board on Eurofighter EF-2000. In fact, Virgilius was originally developed for the EF-2000's IADS suite. Apart from the SPECTRA, this the only AESA-based airborne internal directional jamming system available for export.
3. Mig-29 upg is Mounted with Samtel Thales DASH HMDS Topsight

 

[cerberus]

The Sukhoi Su-30MKI[3] (NATO reporting name: Flanker-H) is a twinjetMultiroleAir superiority fighterdeveloped by Russia's Sukhoi and built under licence by India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for theIndian Air Force (IAF). A variant of the Sukhoi Su-30, it is a heavy, all-weather, long-range fighter.
The displays include a customised version of the Israeli Elbit Su 967 head-up display (HUD) consisting of bi-cubic phase conjugatedholographic displays and seven multifunction liquid-crystal displays, six 127 mm × 127 mm and one 152 mm × 152 mm.

Russia vigourously promoted the Su-30. It has made regular airshow appearances after its debut at Paris AirShow 1999. However, initially the displayed aircrat was a Su-27UB which only carried a wide variety of air to ground misles (which it could not launch). The weapons were KAB-500KR TV guided bomb, Kh-29T and Kh-59M. At that moment there was no Su-30M nor Su-30MK, only the Su-27PUs were renamed as Su-30 (probably for marketing purposes). The real prototype of Su-30MK was converted from a Su-27PU in 1996. The modification included enlarged fins, the addtion of 2 underwing pylons (now to 8) and the carnard foreplanes similar to those of the Su-35 (or Su-27M).

he crew are provided with zero-zero NPP Zvezda K-36DM ejection seats. The rear seat is raised for better visibility. The cockpit is provided with containers to store food and water reserves, a waste disposal system and extra oxygen bottles. The K-36DM ejection seat is inclined at 30°, to help the pilot resist aircraft accelerations in air combat.


The forward-facing NIIP N011M Bars (Panther) is a powerful integrated passive electronically scanned array radar. The N011M is a digital multi-mode dual frequency band radar.The N011M can function in air-to-air and air-to-land/sea mode simultaneously while being tied into a high-precision laser-inertial or GPS navigation system. It is equipped with a modern digital weapons control system as well as anti-jamming features. N011M has a 400 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere.[48] The radar can track 15 air targets and engage 4 simultaneously.[48] These targets can even include cruise missiles and motionless helicopters.

OLS-30 laser-optical Infra-red search and track includes a day and night FLIR capability and is used in conjunction with the helmet mounted sighting system. The OLS-30 is a combined IRST/LR device using a cooled, broad waveband sensor. Detection range is up to 90 km, while the laser ranger is effective to 3.5 km. Targets are displayed on the same LCD display as the radar. Israeli LITENINGtargeting pod is used to target laser guided munitions.

Sukhoi Su-30MKI has electronic counter-measure systems. The RWR system is of Indian design, developed by India's DRDO, called Tarang, (Wave in English). It has direction finding capability and is known to have a programmable threat library. The RWR is derived from work done on an earlier system for India's MiG-23BNsknown as the Tranquil, which is now superseded by the more advanced Tarang series. Elta EL/M-8222 a self-protection jammer developed by Israel Aircraft Industries is the MKI's standard EW pod, which the Israeli Air Force uses on its F-15s.
Elta EL/M-8222 Self-Protection Pod mounted on Under wing pylon

ADVANTAGES

1. SUKHOI MKI Engines 2D TVC nozzles which Gives it Edge in Dogfights and Higher TWR
2. MKI is armed with OLS-30 is a combined IRST/LR device using a cooled, broad waveband sensor. Detection range is up to 90 km, Which is more than -NIPP OLS-UE of Mig-29 UPG
3. It has Better Payload and Larger Radius of Action

 

[MST]

Mig 29 UPG looks like a fat baby. One generation old brother of F 35.

 

[banvanaxl]

The Sukhoi Su-30MKI[3] (NATO reporting name: Flanker-H) is a twinjetMultiroleAir superiority fighterdeveloped by Russia's Sukhoi and built under licence by India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for theIndian Air Force (IAF). A variant of the Sukhoi Su-30, it is a heavy, all-weather, long-range fighter.
The displays include a customised version of the Israeli Elbit Su 967 head-up display (HUD) consisting of bi-cubic phase conjugatedholographic displays and seven multifunction liquid-crystal displays, six 127 mm × 127 mm and one 152 mm × 152 mm.

Russia vigourously promoted the Su-30. It has made regular airshow appearances after its debut at Paris AirShow 1999. However, initially the displayed aircrat was a Su-27UB which only carried a wide variety of air to ground misles (which it could not launch). The weapons were KAB-500KR TV guided bomb, Kh-29T and Kh-59M. At that moment there was no Su-30M nor Su-30MK, only the Su-27PUs were renamed as Su-30 (probably for marketing purposes). The real prototype of Su-30MK was converted from a Su-27PU in 1996. The modification included enlarged fins, the addtion of 2 underwing pylons (now to 8) and the carnard foreplanes similar to those of the Su-35 (or Su-27M).

he crew are provided with zero-zero NPP Zvezda K-36DM ejection seats. The rear seat is raised for better visibility. The cockpit is provided with containers to store food and water reserves, a waste disposal system and extra oxygen bottles. The K-36DM ejection seat is inclined at 30°, to help the pilot resist aircraft accelerations in air combat.


The forward-facing NIIP N011M Bars (Panther) is a powerful integrated passive electronically scanned array radar. The N011M is a digital multi-mode dual frequency band radar.The N011M can function in air-to-air and air-to-land/sea mode simultaneously while being tied into a high-precision laser-inertial or GPS navigation system. It is equipped with a modern digital weapons control system as well as anti-jamming features. N011M has a 400 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere.[48] The radar can track 15 air targets and engage 4 simultaneously.[48] These targets can even include cruise missiles and motionless helicopters.

OLS-30 laser-optical Infra-red search and track includes a day and night FLIR capability and is used in conjunction with the helmet mounted sighting system. The OLS-30 is a combined IRST/LR device using a cooled, broad waveband sensor. Detection range is up to 90 km, while the laser ranger is effective to 3.5 km. Targets are displayed on the same LCD display as the radar. Israeli LITENINGtargeting pod is used to target laser guided munitions.

Sukhoi Su-30MKI has electronic counter-measure systems. The RWR system is of Indian design, developed by India's DRDO, called Tarang, (Wave in English). It has direction finding capability and is known to have a programmable threat library. The RWR is derived from work done on an earlier system for India's MiG-23BNsknown as the Tranquil, which is now superseded by the more advanced Tarang series. Elta EL/M-8222 a self-protection jammer developed by Israel Aircraft Industries is the MKI's standard EW pod, which the Israeli Air Force uses on its F-15s.
Elta EL/M-8222 Self-Protection Pod mounted on Under wing pylon

ADVANTAGES

1. SUKHOI MKI Engines 2D TVC nozzles which Gives it Edge in Dogfights and Higher TWR
2. MKI is armed with OLS-30 is a combined IRST/LR device using a cooled, broad waveband sensor. Detection range is up to 90 km, Which is more than -NIPP OLS-UE of Mig-29 UPG
3. It has Better Payload and Larger Radius of Action

Mate you cant just copy paste wiki and call it "Analysis"

Pray what exactly did you "analyse"?

 

[cerberus]

Mate you cant just copy paste wiki and call it "Analysis"

Pray what exactly did you "analyse"?

The poll is there for your answer

I just place data and advantages of each aircraft over other

 

[Abingdonboy]

MiG-29UPG pictured (on the left) at Adampur Air Force base (was opened up for civilians during 83rd Air Force Raising day):

 

[black-hawk_101]

I think SU-30 MKI, MiG-29s, Jaguars and M-2000s are better. But IAF should add more power by reaching their numbers like:
300 SU-30 MKIs
100 MiG-29s (acquire some used ones with upgrades from Russia)
100+ M-2000s (acquire some used ones with upgrades from France)
150+ Jaguars are good and enough to support Army and Navy a in a close air support roles.

Also, I am sure that IAF is planning to acquire at least:
100 Rafaels
100 EF-2000s

 

[GURU DUTT]

I think SU-30 MKI, MiG-29s, Jaguars and M-2000s are better. But IAF should add more power by reaching their numbers like:
300 SU-30 MKIs
100 MiG-29s (acquire some used ones with upgrades from Russia)
100+ M-2000s (acquire some used ones with upgrades from France)
150+ Jaguars are good and enough to support Army and Navy a in a close air support roles.

Also, I am sure that IAF is planning to acquire at least:
100 Rafaels
100 EF-2000s

sirji we have already ordered

272 MKIs and 42 later so that makes 314 MKIs

IAF has 63 Mig29s now under upgrade programme and navy has orderred 45 so its already 107 mig29s

IAF has already in access of 170 jaguars currentlli under upgrade

we have onli 51 M2Ks now under upgrade

as for new MMRCA onli 36 rafales are bieng ordered from where you got this that IAF will have 100 rafales and why on earth will IAF go for eourofighters when it has rafales

mamoo kehna kya chahte ho

 

[black-hawk_101]

sirji we have already ordered

272 MKIs and 42 later so that makes 314 MKIs

IAF has 63 Mig29s now under upgrade programme and navy has orderred 45 so its already 107 mig29s

IAF has already in access of 170 jaguars currentlli under upgrade

we have onli 51 M2Ks now under upgrade

as for new MMRCA onli 36 rafales are bieng ordered from where you got this that IAF will have 100 rafales and why on earth will IAF go for eourofighters when it has rafales

mamoo kehna kya chahte ho

I still think IAF needs its own MiG-29s to 100 and M-2000s to 100 as well.

 

[GURU DUTT]

I still think IAF needs its own MiG-29s to 100 and M-2000s to 100 as well.

well why do you care

one day weather its mig29 or M2K or The MKI or tejas or rafale are going to be used against your nation so why are you even thinking about your enemy having more of them

is that milk dushmani

 

[Omega007]

well why do you care

one day weather its mig29 or M2K or The MKI or tejas or rafale are going to be used against your nation so why are you even thinking about your enemy having more of them

is that milk dushmani

That was rude man!!

 

[GURU DUTT]

That was rude man!!

but sometime it is important to be rude to shoo off trollers

 

[navtrek]

but sometime it is important to be rude to shoo off trollers

But there weren’t trolling. In fact they were just posting their views on what could be a good number.

 

[GURU DUTT]

That was rude man!!

Ok Sir i opologise for rudeness to @black-hawk_101

as for the topic i guess upgraded Mig29 is better than current MKI specs

 

[Omega007]

Ok Sir i opologise for rudeness to @black-hawk_101

That's more like it my brother.

as for the topic i guess upgraded Mig29 is better than current MKI specs

In terms of electronic warfare capabilities - yes.But I seriously hope that the Mig 29s be retrofitted with Uttam AESA once it becomes operational.