Should Pakistan Replace C-130 With IL-76?

[Chhatrapati]

Aren’t they make one for India.

No... Their production line is shut. We bought the final ones

 

[Meliodas]

Pakistan has operated the C-130 Hercules for over 55 years many of these airframes are very old and have alot of flying hours. It has proven itself as a workhorse and is in services with many countries of the world even today, further there are newer versions of this old design still being produced.

The IL-76 makes perfect sense as a replacement for the C-130 namely for the following reasons:

• The IL-76 is already in service the PAF in tanker form
• The IL-76 is a proven design and a workhorse, yet it is larger than the C-130
• The US is not a reliable arms supplier as evident historically and we must reduce our dependence and purchases from the US.
• The IL-76 purchase/replacement of the C-130 will help build on the much improving Russia-Pakistan relations
• The IL-76 is in service with many countries around the world and so obtaining spares will not be difficult.
• The IL-76 is a relatively cheaper transport aircraft given the number produced and available
• The exisiting C-130 aircraft in service are very old and in need of replacement.

We have a requirement of approximately 20 IL-76 to replace the 18 odd C-130 that we currently have in service.

To give you an indication the cost, The Russian airforce ordered 39 IL-76MD-90A for approximately $4.5 billion, so for 20 we can expect just over $2billion.

You can see the latest version that Russia is building and selling here:

No for IL yes for replacement

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Il-76 is basically garbage with high maintenance. If Pakistan goes for a really expensive big transporter, Y-20 is the choice to go.

 

[Beast]

20 A400 atlases would cost less. The KC390 would be a better fit but probably costs a lot.
The Russians are not reliable either. There was a shortage of IL76s a few years back. Even the Chinese couldn't get hold of airframes.

Wrong weight class to replace the c130

A400M is super expensive. Not worth it.

Maintenance nightmare.
What we need is something along the lines of CN-295. It is cheap, easy to maintain, short turnaround time, parts readily accessible and has great operational capability in any part of the world. Be it deserts, high altitude plateaus, unpaved runways you name it.

Y-9, the payload for it is 25tons, much higher than 19.3 tons of C-130J.

 

[Aasimkhan]

IL76 and Y20 are too big for our needs,

A400M is super expensive. Not worth it.

Y-9, the payload for it is 25tons, much higher than 19.3 tons of C-130J.

IL76 and Y20 are too big for our needs and our geography is such that we do not need them. We should have Y9s and in numbers, may be 50 odd will be good

 

[Beast]

IL76 and Y20 are too big for our needs,

IL76 and Y20 are too big for our needs and our geography is such that we do not need them. We should have Y9s and in numbers, may be 50 odd will be good

Precisely, PAF has operated a few ZDK-03 AWACS. They are basically Y-9 modified as AWACS. Maintenance and familiarity are there.

So far zero accident and doing well.

 

[Zhukov]

Different classes. Different roles.
Cant compare or replace.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Shaanxi Y-9 fulfill our requirement perfectly. Y-20 is an overkill. Majority of our airports won't be able to accommodate this plane anyway.

We have seen C17 being landing in Rawalpindi Nur Khan airbase many times and our airbase can accommodate Y20 with ease

Also if PAF can operate IL78 we can easily operate Y20... Here's a size comparison

 

[Basel]

Pakistan has operated the C-130 Hercules for over 55 years many of these airframes are very old and have alot of flying hours. It has proven itself as a workhorse and is in services with many countries of the world even today, further there are newer versions of this old design still being produced.

The IL-76 makes perfect sense as a replacement for the C-130 namely for the following reasons:

• The IL-76 is already in service the PAF in tanker form
• The IL-76 is a proven design and a workhorse, yet it is larger than the C-130
• The US is not a reliable arms supplier as evident historically and we must reduce our dependence and purchases from the US.
• The IL-76 purchase/replacement of the C-130 will help build on the much improving Russia-Pakistan relations
• The IL-76 is in service with many countries around the world and so obtaining spares will not be difficult.
• The IL-76 is a relatively cheaper transport aircraft given the number produced and available
• The exisiting C-130 aircraft in service are very old and in need of replacement.

We have a requirement of approximately 20 IL-76 to replace the 18 odd C-130 that we currently have in service.

To give you an indication the cost, The Russian airforce ordered 39 IL-76MD-90A for approximately $4.5 billion, so for 20 we can expect just over $2billion.

You can see the latest version that Russia is building and selling here:

PAF operated IL-78MRTTs which were purchased from Ukraine, and those have their issues, and will be upgraded soon.

If PAF is looking to replace C-130s then Ukraine can be good partner as they have An-70/72 planes available and JV on new bird may be possible too.

 

[Zibago]

PAF C-130s received new wings, airframe rebuilds and plenty of other upgrades over the years, they are perfectly fine to fly for a while more until PAF properly considers a replacement.

But we cannot replace them with something like a Y20, and IL76 Or even an A400M. They are all in a different and larger weight class. C130J would still be the most ideal option given training and logistics costs would stay down, but there are other options we can consider when the time comes.

Y9 is a more realistic option given that US isnt a reliable partner anymore

 

[Ali_Baba]

The simple answer is no - the IL-76 is an obsolete design that has no further growth potential - it is an end of life design. PAF is only operating the IL-76 because it had no choice when it make that purchase. If PAF wanted to get something in the category of IL-76 then they would now go for the Y-20.

Given the usecase of these transports - procurements costs, running costs and maintenance costs are a massive factor as they are in use multiple times a day.

Y20 makes sense if we can get fuel efficient and reliable engines on them - which currently would be western ( China is not there yet ). Or it would need to be a western design for the plane. Transport planes are not toxic interms of selling to a user that a fighter jet is - but the relationship with the USA means that Pakistan "must not" take a risk on a new C130 for the next 30-40 years given how USA treats Pakistan.

I know the Turks are starting to work in this space - so maybe they will have a solution, but i am convinced that the replacement of the PAF IL-76 wont be Russian IL-76. The A400M is very expensive to purchase given it is a European product.

The Republic of Kazakhstan orders two Airbus A400Ms

The Republic of Kazakhstan has placed an order for two Airbus A400M aircraft and becomes the ninth operator together with Germany, France, United Kingdom, Spain, Turkey, Belgium, Malaysia and Luxembourg.

www.airbus.com

The purchase price of PLA is USD 80 million(500 million CNY). The export quotation is 110-160 million US dollars.

$160 for export is a significant uptick for a unit price when consider that $80million for the PLA "also" has a profit margin embedded into it .. that goes beyond "profiteering as a markup - dont you think".

Buyer beware seems to be the motto I guess when buying from China ???? .....

 

[MH.Yang]

$160 for export is a significant uptick for a unit price when consider that $80million for the PLA "also" has a profit margin embedded into it .. that goes beyond "profiteering as a markup - dont you think".

Buyer beware seems to be the motto I guess when buying from China ???? .....

The purchase price of C17, US military is US $150 million and that of India is US $580 million. The performance of Y20 is similar to that of C17, so $160 million is not expensive. And Pakistan is sure to get the best price.

 

[Trailer23]

Why doesn't PAF consider Y20?

Because like the J-20, the Y-20 is not available for International Market. Not sure if Pakistan fits in the same category.

...and maintaining and operating a large transport aircraft like the Y-20 is also very expensive.

More expensive than the Il-78 that we're currently operating... ?

The KC390 would be a better fit but probably costs a lot.

More than the C-27J Spartan from Leonardo?

Yes, my mistake.
So what about Y9? It is at the same level as C130.

Its nowhere near the Hercules. And i'm sorry to say this but the Y-9 is quite possibly the ugliest Aircraft i've ever seen in my life.

Il-76 is basically garbage with high maintenance. If Pakistan goes for a really expensive big transporter, Y-20 is the choice to go.

Here we are talking about replacing an Aircraft the PAF will not replace.

What we should be doing is replacing that garbage Il-78 for A2A Refueling & (if) the Y-20 is ever an option, we outta consider that. I doubt it'll be a fuel guzzler like that Ruski prehistoric radioshack dinosaur-age crap.

PAF operated IL-78MRTTs which were purchased from Ukraine, and those have their issues, and will be upgraded soon.

Upgraded - to what, if you don't mind me asking...

"You cut the ears off a mule, don't make him a Horse"
-Ethan Hawke from Magnificent Seven​

The performance of Y20 is similar to that of C17, so $160 million is not expensive. And Pakistan is sure to get the best price.

Hook us up . We'll take 'em - in a heartbeat.

 

[CriticalThought]

OP has asked a completely wrong question. Instead of asking whether we need to replace C-130s, we need to ask "Do we need to supplant C-130s?" And the answer is yes. We have a need to drop heavy ordnances in large numbers from a long range against enemy troops, equipment, and ships. There are certain other things about which I don't want to talk.

 

[RealNapster]

We have seen C17 being landing in Rawalpindi Nur Khan airbase many times and our airbase can accommodate Y20 with ease

View attachment 781025

Also if PAF can operate IL78 we can easily operate Y20... Here's a size comparison

View attachment 781028

Yes. But can we say that for all of our major airstrips (military bases and Civilian airports) ??