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Shia cleric jailed for blasphemy in Indonesia

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did muhammad say tht abu shld be successor?no.whom would u prefer to succeed you if you were a king?your son in law or your friend?muhammad loved his daughter so much tht he didnt even allow ali to have a second wife.

Prophet Muhammad did not say anything about the successor- thats the whole point-
If he wanted to he dould have named Ali himself-
Unless you find me some thing where he made Ali Caliph you assumption is completely wrong about Ali-

Btw
You have started to talk nonsense now-
Which part of me saying that

Islam is against such family successions you do not understand?-

Or find me some thing in Islam where it is written you have to name your son or family members as your successor in power-

This is Islam we talking about not some kingdom-
 
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the thing is ur viewing muhammad as a prophet who is an embodiment of morals and ethics but for me he was simply a normal human being with all the traits of 14th century bedouin.so you are assuming he did not mention his successor but i found it illogical and highly unlikely.he was 63 yrs old when he died(pretty old according to his time) and its highly doubtful tht he didnt mention his successor.anyway my point is if abu bakr loved muhammad he wld have appointed ali as successor(bcoz he was fatimas husban
 
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umar was well known for his barbarity.if i had read correctly,he even swore that he would kill muhammad and make him into pieces before he became a muslim.he had a reputation tht he was very violent.i see no reason in not believing that umar acted greedily,selfishly and violently after mohamads death.apart from sunni sources all the non muslim sources and scholars on net more or less agree with the shia version of events(including me).
 
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why shouldnt they abuse those followers who conspired against prophets daughter and son in law after his death?muhammad loved his daughter so much and i am pretty sure he would have kicked them had he been alive.actually i find it surprising how sunnis are backing up those traitors
It's a lie they fabricated on Omar (RA), it's no coincidence for Shia to hate Omar as he is the one who ordered to invade Persia and the reason Persians converted to Islam afterthen. Another thing, how could Omar break Zahraa's arm and he had close and intimate relation with her husband Ali? Furthermore, Omar married Zahraa's sister Um Kulthom who happens to be Mohammed's daughter. Eventually, those dumb people who accuse Omar of breaking Zahraa's arm imply that her husband, Ali, is a coward as he didn't defend his wife's honor from Omar, while the truth is that he was known of his exceptional bravery and he would never have had allowed this to happen. Therefore it's a lie, actually their religion is full of such lies and contradictions. For us Muslims, we love Ali RA as much as we love Omar RA.
In Quran there is no where written that the abusers of Suhabas- Khulfa e Rashideen or the Prophet relatives are to be considered as "Kaffir"-

In my point of view they are only "Sinners"- just like the rest of us-

It's a lie bro.



umar was well known for his barbarity.if i had read correctly,he even swore that he would kill muhammad and make him into pieces before he became a muslim.he had a reputation tht he was very violent.i see no reason in not believing that umar acted greedily,selfishly and violently after mohamads death.apart from sunni sources all the non muslim sources and scholars on net more or less agree with the shia version of events(including me).

Watch your mouth dirty stinky Hindu. We don't care of what you believe. Go convert to Shia.
 
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United Nations on Imam Ali Ibn Abi Talib

The United Nations has advised Arab countries to take Imam Ali bin Abi Talib (AS) as an example in establishing a regime based on justice and democracy and encouraging knowledge.

The UNDP in its 2002 Arab Human Development Report, distributed around the world, listed six sayings of Imam Ali (AS) about ideal governance.

They include consultation between the ruler and the ruled, speaking out against corruption and other wrong doings, ensuring justice to all, and achieving domestic development.

The UNDP said most regional countries are still far behind other nations in democracy, wide political representation, women's participation, development and knowledge.

Imam Ali bin Abi Talib (AS)'s sayings:

The UNDP quoted the following sayings of Imam Ali (AS) in its 2002 Arab Human Development Report:

1. "He who has appointed himself an Imam (ruler) of the people must begin by teaching himself before teaching others. His teaching of others must be first by setting an example rather than with his words, for he who begins by teaching and educating himself is more worthy of respect than he who teaches and educates others."

2. "Your concern with developing the land should be greater than your concern for collecting taxes, for the latter can only be obtained by developing; whereas he who seeks revenue without development destroys the country and the people."

3. "Seek the company of the learned and the wise in search of solving the problems of your country and the righteousness of your people."

4. "No good can come out in keeping silent to the government or in speaking out of ignorance."

5. "The righteous are men of virtue, whose logic is straightforward, whose dress is unostentatious, whose path is modest, whose actions are many and who are undeterred by difficulties."

6. "Choose the best among your people to administer justice among them. Choose someone who does not easily give up, who is unruffled by enmities, someone who will not persist in wrong doings, who will not hesitate to pursue right once he knows it, someone whose heart knows no greed, who will not be satisfied with a minimum of explanation without seeking the maximum of understanding, who will be the most steadfast when doubt is cast, who will be the least impatient in correcting the opponent, the most patient in pursuing the truth, the most stern in meting out judgment, someone who is unaffected by flattery and not swayed by temptation and these are but few."

George Jurdaq is a Christian scholar and researcher who became fascinated with the inspirational and educational guidelines of Imam Ali (A.S.) for building the individual as well as societies. Because of his extreme liking and admiration he was motivated for undertaking a thorough research; the fruits of these painstaking efforts was the outcome of a precious and novel book titled: "Imam Ali - the Voice of Justice for Humanity" (al-Imam Ali Soot-al-Adalateh al-Insaneych).
George Jurdaq's innovation consists of comparison of "International Declaration for Human Rights" with the famous historical letter written to Malik al-Ashtar*1 (his governor designate to to Egypt); after carefully reviewing the "International Declarations for Human Rights" item by item, compares them with the words of Imam Ali (A.S.), and then with logical reasoning proves the superiority of basics and principles of human and social rights presented by Imam Ali (A.S.) 1,400 years ago. After analyzing, comparing, and appraising, George Jurdaq explains the four basic differences, and through the undeniable realities lifts the curtain from the false and demagogic faces of world arrogance.
"The matter explained in the earlier paragraph beyond any doubt, would make the readers thoroughly aware about the
human rights as proclaimed by Imam Ali (A.S.), and which were clearly, explicitly without any doubt, and complexities explained by him. By bringing these matters here, our aim was to make our readers acquainted, and thus relieving them for looking into these matters in some other texts. But in order to explain the importance and greatness of Imam Ali's(A.S.) views regarding human rights as well as to introduce his exaltedness about the principles and laws in a complete, explicit, and comprehensive manner; it was found necessary to quote the most important points regarding "International Declarations for Human Rights" so that the readers themselves could appreciate the differences between them.
But if we have to speak some short words in this field, it must be pointed out that in principle it would be very difficult
to find any difference between the school of Imam Ali (A.S.) and the "International Declaration of Human Rights". Of course considering the differences of time, slight differences in the contents and details are inevitable, but overall from the
point of view of base and criteria, there exist no single clause in the "International Declaration for Human Rights" issued by
the United Nations, for which an exact and similar clause does not exist in the charter issued by Imam Ali (A.S.). Apart
from this in the charter and principles issued by Imam Ali (A.S.), one may discover things superior and higher than the matters incorporated into the International Charter of Human Rights."

About the important differences between these two George Jurdaq writes as follows:

"If there exists any genuine difference between these two international laws, in my opinion it consists in their implementation, which could be defined into four items as follows:
1. The first difference is that the International Declaration for Human Rights has been prepared by the joint efforts of thousands of learned intellectuals selected by a majority or representatives of all the governments, while the text and legal principles of Alvite constitution have been the outcome of a single exalted personality named Imam Ali ibn abu Talib(A.S.).
2. The second difference is that Imam Ali (A.S.) has issued his declaration of human right at least ten centuries ahead of
the "International Declaration for Human Rights" issued by the United Nations.
3. The third difference is that the authors of the International Declaration for human Rights or more correctly the collectors of relevant material and principles from various resources, regarding the task accomplished by them, or the task which they wanted to accomplish, filled the whole world by overemphasizing the greatness of their task and exaggerating their self-praise to the extent that human conscience and intellectual taste became disgusted with all that vain boasting.
Because of their egotism and arrogance they exhausted the people and forced them to praise for thousands and more heavy obligations which they have placed upon the shoulders of the people and nations.
While, on the other hand Imam Ali (A.S.) acted with courtesy and humility towards the masses of the people and the Creator of the worlds, and never aspired for superiority and greatness, rather sincerely asked for the pardon from the masses and God Almighty for his negligence and omissions in discharging of his obligations.
4. The fourth most important difference is that most of these governments who played key role in the preparation of this declaration or were the pioneers in its official recognition; are the same who deprive human beings from their rights defined in that charter, dispatch soldiers and armaments to distant corners of the world for the complete annihilation of this charter. On the contrary as far as Imam Ali (A.S.) was concerned, every step he took forward, every place he delivered a sermon, and everywhere he raised his lightning sword, he sheared off the curtains of despotism, annihilated various colors and manifestations of egotism and exploitation, uprooted the evils of tyranny and oppression, leveled the ground so that one could walk comfortably without being encountered with obstacles, and ultimately defending the rights and freedom of human beings left this world is a martyr. While a thousand times or more during his life he had risked his life in the battlefields and almost got martyred for defending his cherished ideals?"
Regarding his research efforts about the all round and Divine like personality of the Amir al-Mu `minin (Commander of the Faithful) Imam Ali (A.S.), George Jurdaq comments:

"Since I am a Christian by faith no one could accuse me of being sentimental or prejudiced in my admiration of Imam Ali(A.S.)."
The book "Imam Ali the Voice of Justice for Humanity" initially consisted of one volume which was presented by George Jurdaq to Ayatullah Brujirdi, which later on after completion had been published into five volumes.


no matter what they call us, or accept us as muslim or not after prophet he was and still is our only leader.
 
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@BLACKEAGLE
what if shia version is true?you will be questioned on the day of judgement about ur support of killers of muhammads daughter and his grand sons.bear that in mind.
no matter what sunnis say all the non muslims who read islamic history believe shias version of history bcoz that sounds rational and logical
 
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I must also add that i dont believe that muhammad had imposed any divinity to ali as claimed by shias.the good thing about muhammad is he never said tht he had any supernatural powers or he was divine.he mentioned again and again in quran tht he was just a normal human being like others when people asked him to perform miracles(of course since he couldnt and to escape).the one thing any non muslim can appreciate abt muhammad is he never placed himself equal to allah
 
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@BLACKEAGLE
what if shia version is true?you will be questioned on the day of judgement about ur support of killers of muhammads daughter and his grand sons.bear that in mind.
no matter what sunnis say all the non muslims who read islamic history believe shias version of history bcoz that sounds rational and logical

No they are not true, That's what I'm 100% sure of. BTW, talk with respect about Islamic figures.
 
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later muslims made up hadees and wrote some cocck and bull stories attributing to muhammad but if one reads quran muhammad again and again wrote tht he was a mere human(i dont believe quran is the word of god).so he could not have said tht ali had some divine powers
 
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@Peykan

Imam Ali is our imam, we revere him. We are his people not you. If anyone has the right to talk in his name it's us not Persians nor Hindus.
 
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later muslims made up hadees and wrote some cocck and bull stories attributing to muhammad but if one reads quran muhammad again and again wrote tht he was a mere human(i dont believe quran is the word of god).so he could not have said tht ali had some divine powers

Yes Hindu, why don't you teach us our religion? Just phuck off.
 
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blackeagle
this is the month of ramzan and you are calling me names and using vulgar words.is this what you learnt from islam?is this the advancement you made in your spiritual path?is religion only a tool for you to show off ur ego and dominate others or is it something to make yourself reach nearer to that supreme power and make urself a good human being?your actions speak louder than ur words
 
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@Peykan

Imam Ali is our imam, we revere him. We are his people not you. If anyone has the right to talk in his name it's us not Persians nor Hindus.

tell me you agree with Imam Ali or hazrate Ayeshe? because as you know... u can not be in two sides in same time.
and i am not Persian.
 
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tell me you agree with Imam Ali or hazrate Ayeshe? because as you know... u can not be in two sides in same time.

We love both. After all who are us to take sides in an event that happened 1400 years ago.

@BLACKEAGLE
what if shia version is true?you will be questioned on the day of judgement about ur support of killers of muhammads daughter and his grand sons.bear that in mind.
no matter what sunnis say all the non muslims who read islamic history believe shias version of history bcoz that sounds rational and logical

First we think what we believe about Hazrat Umar(RZ) is true. He was the companion of the Prophet(SAW) and a righteous caliph. We have more than enough reasons for that. Won't share with you since you are not a Muslim.
 
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