Selex ES radar & other technology on JF-17?

[cloud4000]

When will JF-17 Block I aircraft will be upgraded now that Block 3 specs are locked down?

 

[CriticalThought]

Hi,

Thank you very much for your post---.

For the very reasons that you mentioned---this was not a suitable endeavor for Paf----. We have been constantly AT WAR with our neighbor since 1965.

We cannopt afford to test and build and go thru the growing pains of a new product---. Just like Israel---realized it---and stopped in mid stride---regarding its Lavi project.

To procure the right aircraft---it was to be done in a timely manner---the moment the sanctions came off---.

My issues are with the DRAMA that the pakistan air force generals created and a lackadaisical attitude for a must need.

The planning that we have to do---has to be relative---has to be in relation to what the enemy has---.

I mean to say that the JF17 is just not built to screw ourselves---we have to copulate with the enemy one of these days---.

Now if the Paf had gone for at least 24 Rafales in 2002-03 and gottent he EW package in a timely manner---you could say---that is the best potent package available.

OK. Let's say PAF went for 24 Rafaels in 2002-03 and acquired the EW package. In 2016, France has signed a commercial offset deal with India, wherein the Rafael will be produced there. They will know every single detail of the EW package. Alhamdulillah we stayed clear of this pot hole. We are still not safe though. There is every reason to believe that production of F-16s will be shifted to India as well and they will come to know every single weakness in our F-16s. If anything, we need to replace them before India gets its hands on this info.

 

[_NOBODY_]

Hi,

Thank you very much for your post---.

For the very reasons that you mentioned---this was not a suitable endeavor for Paf----. We have been constantly AT WAR with our neighbor since 1965.

We cannopt afford to test and build and go thru the growing pains of a new product---. Just like Israel---realized it---and stopped in mid stride---regarding its Lavi project.

To procure the right aircraft---it was to be done in a timely manner---the moment the sanctions came off---.

My issues are with the DRAMA that the pakistan air force generals created and a lackadaisical attitude for a must need.

The planning that we have to do---has to be relative---has to be in relation to what the enemy has---.

I mean to say that the JF17 is just not built to screw ourselves---we have to copulate with the enemy one of these days---.

Now if the Paf had gone for at least 24 Rafales in 2002-03 and gottent he EW package in a timely manner---you could say---that is the best potent package available.

Well we can't change history so the focus should be on the future. Right now we must make sure that our JF-17 should become good as Gripen NG. There are still options like Selex ES, Leonardo Finmeccanica and BAE etc for JF-17.
Fifth generation fighters won't be available to us for some time as J-31 won't be ready anytime soon and TFX is just a model and it will remain just a model for sometime. The fact is that PAF has to fill the gap until fifth generation fighters are available to us. The only options are Typhoon and Su-35. @MastanKhan JH-7 shouldn't be purchased by PAF as we don't just need deep penetration capability but something to counter Rafale as well. My personal choice would be Typhoon as purchasing it would allow us to get our hands on lethal equipments for JF-17 from vendors like Leonardo Finmeccanica, Selex ES and BAE etc much more easily. Funds must be arranged for Typhoon as it can offer much much more than what Su-35 can ever offer. More importantly our enemies know everything about the Flankers. Eurofighter is also desperate for selling Typhoons and we should take advantage of this desperation.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Dear Sir you are comparing Israel with Pak which is ridiculous, u should have more info being a Us citizen, Israel has become practically father of USA as every institution of USA is controlled/managed by Jews.

On the other hand Pak has no such illegitimate child to finance it's plans believe me or not I have personally people who at limited level have developed such techs in Pakistan in few bugs which are produced by spending Millions in developed world.

PAF is going to build a aviation city which will have all sort of institutions from educational to R&D based, complete supply chain. We could have got better gadgets on JF17 if our so called allies are honest with us. But unfortunately apart from China none is in same league. Even so called brotherly Muslim countries are also trying to push Pak for their own sectarian motives. We have to rely on our limited resources which are just like a small blanket being pushed by a tall person to cover entire body.

PAF has to get resources from Govt no matter how many modern jets are flown by our chief in the end we will get only that for which we can pay.



Sir, which gadgets you are expecting in block 3

The PAF said AESA radar and HMD/S.

 

[araz]

May I ask why thunder didn't plan Aesa, Hobs, Hmds, irst in the block 1 ?
i am sure you could have got it from various sources..

Simple.
Options were not available to hand. The need was urgent so PAF decided to get the plane up and running and look at senhancements as they came on line. You can see this in alp the planes and the fancy western word is upgrade.

Both of you respectable Gentlemen have put very valid points forward. I appreciate both your inputs.

Buying off the shelf has it's merit, but is a short term solution, leaving you vulnerable to sanctions. I am of the opinion that PAF took the right decision with the JF17.

Developing your own industrial base is the best way to go. JF17 has it's issues, but they are being ironed out as we speak.

Once it's mature, developing a medium to heavy fighter, or maintaining one, will not be an issue. There is a very valid reason why the avionics in Israeli F16's are domestically made, not because they are superior to American ones, but to prevent sanctions, or delays in deliveries. The flexibility, and independence provided by JF17 is hard to deny. A good step in the right direction.

The other positive point is that the technological edge PAC/PAF will eventually get, will enable PAF to get the latest cutting edge technology or aircraft. Turkey is a very good example, they started with simple assembly, moving to manufacturing of some parts, and then to developing their own AESA radar. Now for the TFX, they can induct the latest tech, independently or jointly as per their choosing.

I agree that it was the best possible plane to start the aviation industry with. Low cost low risk simple to manufacture and most importantly upgradable as and when technology becomes available. Plug and play architecture, small and cost effective therefore if you lose some in an adventure it wont hurt as bad as losing an expensive platform.
A

 

[CHI RULES]

Hi,

Nothing stopped pakistan from playing the Israeli " HAND " except for your ' own ' deceitful mindset.

You had the U S on a platter---by its ballz in 2001---and you fools cut off your own nose to spite your face

We got USA by ballz only in Zia's era when we got F16s after that we got shit only scrap of

 

[MastanKhan]

OK. Let's say PAF went for 24 Rafaels in 2002-03 and acquired the EW package. In 2016, France has signed a commercial offset deal with India, wherein the Rafael will be produced there. They will know every single detail of the EW package. Alhamdulillah we stayed clear of this pot hole. We are still not safe though. There is every reason to believe that production of F-16s will be shifted to India as well and they will come to know every single weakness in our F-16s. If anything, we need to replace them before India gets its hands on this info.

Hi,

India would not have gone for the Rafale---. If you did not know that much---pity on you---.

Don't bring the blessings of allah on your blunders---.

We got USA by ballz only in Zia's era when we got F16s after that we got shit only scrap of

Hi,

You had the americans during Mushy's era as well---but then the Pakistanis chose to side with the terrorists for 13 years---.

And if you did not know that much---then pity on you as well---.

It is so shameful that how you pakistani kids cherish your failures and incompetences---and then to top it off----you tell more lies and exegerrate more.

Well we can't change history so the focus should be on the future. Right now we must make sure that our JF-17 should become good as Gripen NG. There are still options like Selex ES, Leonardo Finmeccanica and BAE etc for JF-17.
Fifth generation fighters won't be available to us for some time as J-31 won't be ready anytime soon and TFX is just a model and it will remain just a model for sometime. The fact is that PAF has to fill the gap until fifth generation fighters are available to us. The only options are Typhoon and Su-35. @MastanKhan JH-7 shouldn't be purchased by PAF as we don't just need deep penetration capability but something to counter Rafale as well. My personal choice would be Typhoon as purchasing it would allow us to get our hands on lethal equipments for JF-17 from vendors like Leonardo Finmeccanica, Selex ES and BAE etc much more easily. Funds must be arranged for Typhoon as it can offer much much more than what Su-35 can ever offer. More importantly our enemies know everything about the Flankers. Eurofighter is also desperate for selling Typhoons and we should take advantage of this desperation.

Hi,

When I talk with you people---I don't share ' my thinking '---. I like to bring historical precedence when it is about weapons and wars.

Because all the armies that talked about their greatness got smashed into smithereens by the very opponent they thought that they could decimate.

The only reason the allied forces were able to defeat germany was to strike deep into germany---.

May I ask why thunder didn't plan Aesa, Hobs, Hmds, irst in the block 1 ?
i am sure you could have got it from various sources..

Hi,

The JF 17 aircraft was a badly planned endeavor---. This program had no outside OVER SIGHT on it---. It was built by an air force---.

You know why the air forces of the world don't build their own aircraft---because they are wrong 9 times out of 10 about what the need is---.

That is why---the decision to buy a potent system should stay with the civilians with input from air force---. The civilian govt must decide what force does the nation needs to project thru its fighter aircraft force---.

The JF17 is a victim of Sab Theek Ho Jai Ga mentality---( atypical pakistani mentality---everything will be okay )---.

Not installing the IRST was a blunder---because next door---the J10 was hgetting one---.

Due to compromise in the design size---they have found out that they don't have a place to mount a FIXED IRST on the body of the aircraft---the nose cone is too small for a good sized aesa radar---the hard point are two few---basically the aircraft is about 20---25% smaller that the optimal size---.

As I had mentioned earlier many a times----they had a perfect operational example in front of them---the Japanese F2---.

The they also had the example of the J20 and the J31---both these aircraft built and made into testing platrforms for all the EW package even before the appropriate engine was available---. What that meant was---the moment the chinese best engine is ready---they would mount it on the aircraft and in the meantime---the aircraft design and integration would be completed---.

But again---the Paf played blind---and then look at the young pakistani here---lying their hearts out to make the JF17 look like what it is not---.

We had the ability and capability of producing a more competent air frame---but this Yessir---Theek Hai Sir---Aap Theek Kehtay Hein---mindset with out a civilian over sight---from an excellent project---it came down to between a good and a very good project---.

The kiss ar-se mentality of the Paf let this program from becoming extra ordinary to ordinary---.

Once the Pakistanis learn---that you don't have to go back to ZERO meters when you join a Relay race---you start from the position from where you are handed the baton---.

not just that you gave China acsess to there cutting edge tech which you never had courage to own but western nations know it and now dont trust your nation and have found a better alternative

Hi,

We did not have to give any cutting edge tech---the western nations themselves sold it to them and the israelis designed it for them---.

We did not have any cutting edge tech---. Some western nation sold them those VERY expensive machines to tool the compressor blades for the ws10 engine---it was not pakistan---.

 

[CHI RULES]

Hi,

India would not have gone for the Rafale---. If you did not know that much---pity on you---.

Don't bring the blessings of allah on your blunders---.



Hi,

You had the americans during Mushy's era as well---but then the Pakistanis chose to side with the terrorists for 13 years---.

And if you did not know that much---then pity on you as well---.

It is so shameful that how you pakistani kids cherish your failures and incompetences---and then to top it off----you tell more lies and exegerrate more.




Hi,

When I talk with you people---I don't share ' my thinking '---. I like to bring historical precedence when it is about weapons and wars.

Because all the armies that talked about their greatness got smashed into smithereens by the very opponent they thought that they could decimate.

The only reason the allied forces were able to defeat germany was to strike deep into germany---.



Hi,

The JF 17 aircraft was a badly planned endeavor---. This program had no outside OVER SIGHT on it---. It was built by an air force---.

You know why the air forces of the world don't build their own aircraft---because they are wrong 9 times out of 10 about what the need is---.

That is why---the decision to buy a potent system should stay with the civilians with input from air force---. The civilian govt must decide what force does the nation needs to project thru its fighter aircraft force---.

The JF17 is a victim of Sab Theek Ho Jai Ga mentality---( atypical pakistani mentality---everything will be okay )---.

Not installing the IRST was a blunder---because next door---the J10 was hgetting one---.

Due to compromise in the design size---they have found out that they don't have a place to mount a FIXED IRST on the body of the aircraft---the nose cone is too small for a good sized aesa radar---the hard point are two few---basically the aircraft is about 20---25% smaller that the optimal size---.

As I had mentioned earlier many a times----they had a perfect operational example in front of them---the Japanese F2---.

The they also had the example of the J20 and the J31---both these aircraft built and made into testing platrforms for all the EW package even before the appropriate engine was available---. What that meant was---the moment the chinese best engine is ready---they would mount it on the aircraft and in the meantime---the aircraft design and integration would be completed---.

But again---the Paf played blind---and then look at the young pakistani here---lying their hearts out to make the JF17 look like what it is not---.

We had the ability and capability of producing a more competent air frame---but this Yessir---Theek Hai Sir---Aap Theek Kehtay Hein---mindset with out a civilian over sight---from an excellent project---it came down to between a good and a very good project---.

The kiss ar-se mentality of the Paf let this program from becoming extra ordinary to ordinary---.

Once the Pakistanis learn---that you don't have to go back to ZERO meters when you join a Relay race---you start from the position from where you are handed the baton---.



Hi,

We did not have to give any cutting edge tech---the western nations themselves sold it to them and the israelis designed it for them---.

We did not have any cutting edge tech---. Some western nation sold them those VERY expensive machines to tool the compressor blades for the ws10 engine---it was not pakistan---.

Dear Sir, perhaps u did n't know that PA chiefs more or less came after informal approvals of many powers, including USA ( as many predict). Our Army leadership in Mushy era was itself divided in pro and anti western blocks.Now facts show and as per accounts of some Musharaf's own subordinates was perhaps acting like a puppet for USA.

We were much suppressed rather then being in commanding position, drones were roaming freely and Jacobbabad Airbase was and still is more or less in control of US military officials. At least at start of Musharaf's take over I was much nearer to army circles ( u assumed wrongly abt me). I have seen with my own eyes foreigners in informal clothes with physique of Superman in Islamabad during that era.Even many died during bombing of Holiday Inn in Islamabad.

Pak was threatened and given no choice along with a westernized ruler like Musharaf. I am agreed that we have got shit and scrapped material since then however even that was made useful by our pros.

Hi,

India would not have gone for the Rafale---. If you did not know that much---pity on you---.

Don't bring the blessings of allah on your blunders---.



Hi,

You had the americans during Mushy's era as well---but then the Pakistanis chose to side with the terrorists for 13 years---.

And if you did not know that much---then pity on you as well---.

It is so shameful that how you pakistani kids cherish your failures and incompetences---and then to top it off----you tell more lies and exegerrate more.




Hi,

When I talk with you people---I don't share ' my thinking '---. I like to bring historical precedence when it is about weapons and wars.

Because all the armies that talked about their greatness got smashed into smithereens by the very opponent they thought that they could decimate.

The only reason the allied forces were able to defeat germany was to strike deep into germany---.



Hi,

The JF 17 aircraft was a badly planned endeavor---. This program had no outside OVER SIGHT on it---. It was built by an air force---.

You know why the air forces of the world don't build their own aircraft---because they are wrong 9 times out of 10 about what the need is---.

That is why---the decision to buy a potent system should stay with the civilians with input from air force---. The civilian govt must decide what force does the nation needs to project thru its fighter aircraft force---.

The JF17 is a victim of Sab Theek Ho Jai Ga mentality---( atypical pakistani mentality---everything will be okay )---.

Not installing the IRST was a blunder---because next door---the J10 was hgetting one---.

Due to compromise in the design size---they have found out that they don't have a place to mount a FIXED IRST on the body of the aircraft---the nose cone is too small for a good sized aesa radar---the hard point are two few---basically the aircraft is about 20---25% smaller that the optimal size---.

As I had mentioned earlier many a times----they had a perfect operational example in front of them---the Japanese F2---.

The they also had the example of the J20 and the J31---both these aircraft built and made into testing platrforms for all the EW package even before the appropriate engine was available---. What that meant was---the moment the chinese best engine is ready---they would mount it on the aircraft and in the meantime---the aircraft design and integration would be completed---.

But again---the Paf played blind---and then look at the young pakistani here---lying their hearts out to make the JF17 look like what it is not---.

We had the ability and capability of producing a more competent air frame---but this Yessir---Theek Hai Sir---Aap Theek Kehtay Hein---mindset with out a civilian over sight---from an excellent project---it came down to between a good and a very good project---.

The kiss ar-se mentality of the Paf let this program from becoming extra ordinary to ordinary---.

Once the Pakistanis learn---that you don't have to go back to ZERO meters when you join a Relay race---you start from the position from where you are handed the baton---.



Hi,

We did not have to give any cutting edge tech---the western nations themselves sold it to them and the israelis designed it for them---.

We did not have any cutting edge tech---. Some western nation sold them those VERY expensive machines to tool the compressor blades for the ws10 engine---it was not pakistan---.

Dear Sir, perhaps u did n't know that PA chiefs more or less came after informal approvals of many powers, including USA ( as many predict). Our Army leadership in Mushy era was itself divided in pro and anti western blocks.Now facts show and as per accounts of some Musharaf's own subordinates was perhaps acting like a puppet for USA.

We were much suppressed rather then being in commanding position, drones were roaming freely and Jacobbabad Airbase was and still is more or less in control of US military officials. At least at start of Musharaf's take over I was much nearer to army circles ( u assumed wrongly abt me). I have seen with my own eyes foreigners in informal clothes with physique of Superman in Islamabad during that era.Even many died during bombing of Holiday Inn in Islamabad.

Pak was threatened and given no choice along with a westernized ruler like Musharaf. I am agreed that we have got shit and scrapped material since then however even that was made useful by our pros.

 

[araz]

We got USA by ballz only in Zia's era when we got F16s after that we got shit only scrap of

You need to look at history again. At no time including Zia's time have we had USA BY ITS BALLS. The ball has always been in the other court. It was always US giving you enough to keep you on a tight leash.
A

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

that is the matter,

NO ONE is willing to sell us any thing, ( USA primarily ).

Because we allowed China to check mate them through the land route to Arabian Sea.

The US is prepared to sell F-16, they are not prepared to subsidize them,
which is not surprising considering Pakistan's past behaviour.
Comments about the US made by Pakistanis here on PDF would be enough to
not consider Pakistan a friendly country.

 

[WarFariX]

The US is prepared to sell F-16, they are not prepared to subsidize them,
which is not surprising considering Pakistan's past behaviour.
Comments about the US made by Pakistanis here on PDF would be enough to
not consider Pakistan a friendly country.

Definition of friend plz
the rest i will explain u after u answer my question

 

[CriticalThought]

Hi,

India would not have gone for the Rafale---. If you did not know that much---pity on you---.

This is your personal opinion only. Let me recall some facts here. We have a sizeable number of F-16s in our airforce. There is an insidious side to India's attempts at shifting F-16 production - Pakistan will now be reliant on India for spare parts, and they will know every detail of the F-16, including any weaknesses. If we also had the Rafael, India would definitely go for the same commercial offsets deal to make us dependent on Indian spare parts, and to get detailed knowledge of the Rafael. So yes, Alhamdulillah, disaster avoided.

The reality of the US-Pakistan relationship is that they have different ambitions and world views. Their interests are widely divergent. Around the world, the only nations that get some benefit from the USA can be divided into two types:

1) Those who are willing to sell their very identity and adopt the cultural, social, ideological principals of the US. Yes, Indian 'culture' is being exported to the US, but it is based on the same shamelessness, immodesty, vulgarity, and debauchery that is the hallmark of US society.

2) Those with whom the US has vested interests, such as Saudi Arabia. Pakistan has classically been part of this group, but the fact of the matter is that today it is more of a cactus stuck in the throat which they can't swallow and can't get out either.

To expect anything good to come out of the US/Pakistan relationship is naïveté.

 

[Sinnerman108]

The US is prepared to sell F-16, they are not prepared to subsidize them,
which is not surprising considering Pakistan's past behaviour.
Comments about the US made by Pakistanis here on PDF would be enough to
not consider Pakistan a friendly country.

That is true,
what is also true is that US won't sell anything more advanced than the F-16 even if money want's a problem.

The lines have been drawn in this game, US wants to check China and Russia's approach to Middle east and North Africa. India is going to be a means for that.

Pakistan is counting on getting that access for China and Russia and make money in the process.

 

[CHI RULES]

The US is prepared to sell F-16, they are not prepared to subsidize them,
which is not surprising considering Pakistan's past behaviour.
Comments about the US made by Pakistanis here on PDF would be enough to
not consider Pakistan a friendly country.

It was same as French do i.e u make things so costly that they become out of reach, same happened in Pak case. 80 Million USD for block 52 F16 is much more as compared to capabilities as they not now top notch fighters after introduction of block 60 and Viper upgrade.

I can bet on that in current scenario if Pak is willing to pay for Viper upgrade even then it will be out of reach for us. If we are able to get Trench 2 Euro fighters with some relevant upgrades and having some sort of credit line then it shall far more better option.

As if we can't get latest version then we should acquire more second hand F16s just to strengthen our 2nd tier defense needs and off course to replace legacy fighters like Mirage-III, F7Ps at first and later on Mirage Vs and PGs.

You need to look at history again. At no time including Zia's time have we had USA BY ITS BALLS. The ball has always been in the other court. It was always US giving you enough to keep you on a tight leash.
A

Sir perhaps point should be explained to Mr Mastan Khan as he is calling people of middle ages as kids and just raising false allegations against PAF officials without considering ground realities.

 

[imadul]

Hi,

India would noPAF, ave gone for the Rafale---. If you did not know that much---pity on you---.

Don't bring the blessings of allah on your blunders---.



Hi,

You had the americans during Mushy's era as well---but then the Pakistanis chose to side with the terrorists for 13 years---.

And if you did not know that much---then pity on you as well---.

It is so shameful that how you pakistani kids cherish your failures and incompetences---and then to top it off----you tell more lies and exegerrate more.




Hi,

When I talk with you people---I don't share ' my thinking '---. I like to bring historical precedence when it is about weapons and wars.

Because all the armies that talked about their greatness got smashed into smithereens by the very opponent they thought that they could decimate.

The only reason the allied forces were able to defeat germany was to strike deep into germany---.



Hi,

The JF 17 aircraft was a badly planned endeavor---. This program had no outside OVER SIGHT on it---. It was built by an air force---.

You know why the air forces of the world don't build their own aircraft---because they are wrong 9 times out of 10 about what the need is---.

That is why---the decision to buy a potent system should stay with the civilians with input from air force---. The civilian govt must decide what force does the nation needs to project thru its fighter aircraft force---.

The JF17 is a victim of Sab Theek Ho Jai Ga mentality---( atypical pakistani mentality---everything will be okay )---.

Not installing the IRST was a blunder---because next door---the J10 was hgetting one---.

Due to compromise in the design size---they have found out that they don't have a place to mount a FIXED IRST on the body of the aircraft---the nose cone is too small for a good sized aesa radar---the hard point are two few---basically the aircraft is about 20---25% smaller that the optimal size---.

As I had mentioned earlier many a times----they had a perfect operational example in front of them---the Japanese F2---.

The they also had the example of the J20 and the J31---both these aircraft built and made into testing platrforms for all the EW package even before the appropriate engine was available---. What that meant was---the moment the chinese best engine is ready---they would mount it on the aircraft and in the meantime---the aircraft design and integration would be completed---.

But again---the Paf played blind---and then look at the young pakistani here---lying their hearts out to make the JF17 look like what it is not---.

We had the ability and capability of producing a more competent air frame---but this Yessir---Theek Hai Sir---Aap Theek Kehtay Hein---mindset with out a civilian over sight---from an excellent project---it came down to between a good and a very good project---.

The kiss ar-se mentality of the Paf let this program from becoming extra ordinary to ordinary---.

Once the Pakistanis learn---that you don't have to go back to ZERO meters when you join a Relay race---you start from the position from where you are handed the baton---.



Hi,

We did not have to give any cutting edge tech---the western nations themselves sold it to them and the israelis designed it for them---.

We did not have any cutting edge tech---. Some western nation sold them those VERY expensive machines to tool the compressor blades for the ws10 engine---it was not pakistan---.

I though only bloody civilian that stupid, buy u seem to be an X' PAFi

Hi,

India would not have gone for the Rafale---. If you did not know that much---pity on you---.

Don't bring the blessings of allah on your blunders---.



Hi,

You had the americans during Mushy's era as well---but then the Pakistanis chose to side with the terrorists for 13 years---.

And if you did not know that much---then pity on you as well---.

It is so shameful that how you pakistani kids cherish your failures and incompetences---and then to top it off----you tell more lies and exegerrate more.




Hi,

When I talk with you people---I don't share ' my thinking '---. I like to bring historical precedence when it is about weapons and wars.

Because all the armies that talked about their greatness got smashed into smithereens by the very opponent they thought that they could decimate.

The only reason the allied forces were able to defeat germany was to strike deep into germany---.



Hi,

The JF 17 aircraft was a badly planned endeavor---. This program had no outside OVER SIGHT on it---. It was built by an air force---.

You know why the air forces of the world don't build their own aircraft---because they are wrong 9 times out of 10 about what the need is---.

That is why---the decision to buy a potent system should stay with the civilians with input from air force---. The civilian govt must decide what force does the nation needs to project thru its fighter aircraft force---.

The JF17 is a victim of Sab Theek Ho Jai Ga mentality---( atypical pakistani mentality---everything will be okay )---.

Not installing the IRST was a blunder---because next door---the J10 was hgetting one---.

Due to compromise in the design size---they have found out that they don't have a place to mount a FIXED IRST on the body of the aircraft---the nose cone is too small for a good sized aesa radar---the hard point are two few---basically the aircraft is about 20---25% smaller that the optimal size---.

As I had mentioned earlier many a times----they had a perfect operational example in front of them---the Japanese F2---.

The they also had the example of the J20 and the J31---both these aircraft built and made into testing platrforms for all the EW package even before the appropriate engine was available---. What that meant was---the moment the chinese best engine is ready---they would mount it on the aircraft and in the meantime---the aircraft design and integration would be completed---.

But again---the Paf played blind---and then look at the young pakistani here---lying their hearts out to make the JF17 look like what it is not---.

We had the ability and capability of producing a more competent air frame---but this Yessir---Theek Hai Sir---Aap Theek Kehtay Hein---mindset with out a civilian over sight---from an excellent project---it came down to between a good and a very good project---.

The kiss ar-se mentality of the Paf let this program from becoming extra ordinary to ordinary---.

Once the Pakistanis learn---that you don't have to go back to ZERO meters when you join a Relay race---you start from the position from where you are handed the baton---.



Hi,

We did not have to give any cutting edge tech---the western nations themselves sold it to them and the israelis designed it for them---.

We did not have any cutting edge tech---. Some western nation sold them those VERY expensive machines to tool the compressor blades for the ws10 engine---it was not pakistan---.

Ggg

Hi,

India would not have gone for the Rafale---. If you did not know that much---pity on you---.

Don't bring the blessings of allah on your blunders---.



Hi,

You had the americans during Mushy's era as well---but then the Pakistanis chose to side with the terrorists for 13 years---.

And if you did not know that much---then pity on you as well---.

It is so shameful that how you pakistani kids cherish your failures and incompetences---and then to top it off----you tell more lies and exegerrate more.




Hi,

When I talk with you people---I don't share ' my thinking '---. I like to bring historical precedence when it is about weapons and wars.

Because all the armies that talked about their greatness got smashed into smithereens by the very opponent they thought that they could decimate.

The only reason the allied forces were able to defeat germany was to strike deep into germany---.



Hi,

The JF 17 aircraft was a badly planned endeavor---. This program had no outside OVER SIGHT on it---. It was built by an air force---.

You know why the air forces of the world don't build their own aircraft---because they are wrong 9 times out of 10 about what the need is---.

That is why---the decision to buy a potent system should stay with the civilians with input from air force---. The civilian govt must decide what force does the nation needs to project thru its fighter aircraft force---.

The JF17 is a victim of Sab Theek Ho Jai Ga mentality---( atypical pakistani mentality---everything will be okay )---.

Not installing the IRST was a blunder---because next door---the J10 was hgetting one---.

Due to compromise in the design size---they have found out that they don't have a place to mount a FIXED IRST on the body of the aircraft---the nose cone is too small for a good sized aesa radar---the hard point are two few---basically the aircraft is about 20---25% smaller that the optimal size---.

As I had mentioned earlier many a times----they had a perfect operational example in front of them---the Japanese F2---.

The they also had the example of the J20 and the J31---both these aircraft built and made into testing platrforms for all the EW package even before the appropriate engine was available---. What that meant was---the moment the chinese best engine is ready---they would mount it on the aircraft and in the meantime---the aircraft design and integration would be completed---.

But again---the Paf played blind---and then look at the young pakistani here---lying their hearts out to make the JF17 look like what it is not---.

We had the ability and capability of producing a more competent air frame---but this Yessir---Theek Hai Sir---Aap Theek Kehtay Hein---mindset with out a civilian over sight---from an excellent project---it came down to between a good and a very good project---.

The kiss ar-se mentality of the Paf let this program from becoming extra ordinary to ordinary---.

Once the Pakistanis learn---that you don't have to go back to ZERO meters when you join a Relay race---you start from the position from where you are handed the baton---.



Hi,

We did not have to give any cutting edge tech---the western nations themselves sold it to them and the israelis designed it for them---.

We did not have any cutting edge tech---. Some western nation sold them those VERY expensive machines to tool the compressor blades for the ws10 engine---it was not pakistan---.

Hi,

India would not have gone for the Rafale---. If you did not know that much---pity on you---.

Don't bring the blessings of allah on your blunders---.



Hi,

You had the americans during Mushy's era as well---but then the Pakistanis chose to side with the terrorists for 13 years---.

And if you did not know that much---then pity on you as well---.

It is so shameful that how you pakistani kids cherish your failures and incompetences---and then to top it off----you tell more lies and exegerrate more.




Hi,

When I talk with you people---I don't share ' my thinking '---. I like to bring historical precedence when it is about weapons and wars.

Because all the armies that talked about their greatness got smashed into smithereens by the very opponent they thought that they could decimate.

The only reason the allied forces were able to defeat germany was to strike deep into germany---.



Hi,

The JF 17 aircraft was a badly planned endeavor---. This program had no outside OVER SIGHT on it---. It was built by an air force---.

You know why the air forces of the world don't build their own aircraft---because they are wrong 9 times out of 10 about what the need is---.

That is why---the decision to buy a potent system should stay with the civilians with input from air force---. The civilian govt must decide what force does the nation needs to project thru its fighter aircraft force---.

The JF17 is a victim of Sab Theek Ho Jai Ga mentality---( atypical pakistani mentality---everything will be okay )---.

Not installing the IRST was a blunder---because next door---the J10 was hgetting one---.

Due to compromise in the design size---they have found out that they don't have a place to mount a FIXED IRST on the body of the aircraft---the nose cone is too small for a good sized aesa radar---the hard point are two few---basically the aircraft is about 20---25% smaller that the optimal size---.

As I had mentioned earlier many a times----they had a perfect operational example in front of them---the Japanese F2---.

The they also had the example of the J20 and the J31---both these aircraft built and made into testing platrforms for all the EW package even before the appropriate engine was available---. What that meant was---the moment the chinese best engine is ready---they would mount it on the aircraft and in the meantime---the aircraft design and integration would be completed---.

But again---the Paf played blind---and then look at the young pakistani here---lying their hearts out to make the JF17 look like what it is not---.

We had the ability and capability of producing a more competent air frame---but this Yessir---Theek Hai Sir---Aap Theek Kehtay Hein---mindset with out a civilian over sight---from an excellent project---it came down to between a good and a very good project---.

The kiss ar-se mentality of the Paf let this program from becoming extra ordinary to ordinary---.

Once the Pakistanis learn---that you don't have to go back to ZERO meters when you join a Relay race---you start from the position from where you are handed the baton---.



Hi,

We did not have to give any cutting edge tech---the western nations themselves sold it to them and the israelis designed it for them---.

We did not have any cutting edge tech---. Some western nation sold them those VERY expensive machines to tool the compressor blades for the ws10 engine---it was not pakistan---.

Hi,

India would not have gone for the Rafale---. If you did not know that much---pity on you---.

Don't bring the blessings of allah on your blunders---.



Hi,

You had the americans during Mushy's era as well---but then the Pakistanis chose to side with the terrorists for 13 years---.

And if you did not know that much---then pity on you as well---.

It is so shameful that how you pakistani kids cherish your failures and incompetences---and then to top it off----you tell more lies and exegerrate more.




Hi,

When I talk with you people---I don't share ' my thinking '---. I like to bring historical precedence when it is about weapons and wars.

Because all the armies that talked about their greatness got smashed into smithereens by the very opponent they thought that they could decimate.

The only reason the allied forces were able to defeat germany was to strike deep into germany---.



Hi,

The JF 17 aircraft was a badly planned endeavor---. This program had no outside OVER SIGHT on it---. It was built by an air force---.

You know why the air forces of the world don't build their own aircraft---because they are wrong 9 times out of 10 about what the need is---.

That is why---the decision to buy a potent system should stay with the civilians with input from air force---. The civilian govt must decide what force does the nation needs to project thru its fighter aircraft force---.

The JF17 is a victim of Sab Theek Ho Jai Ga mentality---( atypical pakistani mentality---everything will be okay )---.

Not installing the IRST was a blunder---because next door---the J10 was hgetting one---.

Due to compromise in the design size---they have found out that they don't have a place to mount a FIXED IRST on the body of the aircraft---the nose cone is too small for a good sized aesa radar---the hard point are two few---basically the aircraft is about 20---25% smaller that the optimal size---.

As I had mentioned earlier many a times----they had a perfect operational example in front of them---the Japanese F2---.

The they also had the example of the J20 and the J31---both these aircraft built and made into testing platrforms for all the EW package even before the appropriate engine was available---. What that meant was---the moment the chinese best engine is ready---they would mount it on the aircraft and in the meantime---the aircraft design and integration would be completed---.

But again---the Paf played blind---and then look at the young pakistani here---lying their hearts out to make the JF17 look like what it is not---.

We had the ability and capability of producing a more competent air frame---but this Yessir---Theek Hai Sir---Aap Theek Kehtay Hein---mindset with out a civilian over sight---from an excellent project---it came down to between a good and a very good project---.

The kiss ar-se mentality of the Paf let this program from becoming extra ordinary to ordinary---.

Once the Pakistanis learn---that you don't have to go back to ZERO meters when you join a Relay race---you start from the position from where you are handed the baton---.



Hi,

We did not have to give any cutting edge tech---the western nations themselves sold it to them and the israelis designed it for them---.

We did not have any cutting edge tech---. Some western nation sold them those VERY expensive machines to tool the compressor blades for the ws10 engine---it was not pakistan---.

Dear Sir, perhaps u did n't know that PA chiefs more or less came after informal approvals of many powers, including USA ( as many predict). Our Army leadership in Mushy era was itself divided in pro and anti western blocks.Now facts show and as per accounts of some Musharaf's own subordinates was perhaps acting like a puppet for USA.

We were much suppressed rather then being in commanding position, drones were roaming freely and Jacobbabad Airbase was and still is more or less in control of US military officials. At least at start of Musharaf's take over I was much nearer to army circles ( u assumed wrongly abt me). I have seen with my own eyes foreigners in informal clothes with physique of Superman in Islamabad during that era.Even many died during bombing of Holiday Inn in Islamabad.

Pak was threatened and given no choice along with a westernized ruler like Musharaf. I am agreed that we have got shit and scrapped material since then however even that was made useful by our pros.



Dear Sir, perhaps u did n't know that PA chiefs more or less came after informal approvals of many powers, including USA ( as many predict). Our Army leadership in Mushy era was itself divided in pro and anti western blocks.Now facts show and as per accounts of some Musharaf's own subordinates was perhaps acting like a puppet for USA.

We were much suppressed rather then being in commanding position, drones were roaming freely and Jacobbabad Airbase was and still is more or less in control of US military officials. At least at start of Musharaf's take over I was much nearer to army circles ( u assumed wrongly abt me). I have seen with my own eyes foreigners in informal clothes with physique of Superman in Islamabad during that era.Even many died during bombing of Holiday Inn in Islamabad.

Pak was threatened and given no choice along with a westernized ruler like Musharaf. I am agreed that we have got shit and scrapped material since then however even that was made useful by our pros.

Hi,

India would noPAF, ave gone for the Rafale---. If you did not know that much---pity on you---.

Don't bring the blessings of allah on your blunders---.



Hi,

You had the americans during Mushy's era as well---but then the Pakistanis chose to side with the terrorists for 13 years---.

And if you did not know that much---then pity on you as well---.

It is so shameful that how you pakistani kids cherish your failures and incompetences---and then to top it off----you tell more lies and exegerrate more.




Hi,

When I talk with you people---I don't share ' my thinking '---. I like to bring historical precedence when it is about weapons and wars.

Because all the armies that talked about their greatness got smashed into smithereens by the very opponent they thought that they could decimate.

The only reason the allied forces were able to defeat germany was to strike deep into germany---.



Hi,

The JF 17 aircraft was a badly planned endeavor---. This program had no outside OVER SIGHT on it---. It was built by an air force---.

You know why the air forces of the world don't build their own aircraft---because they are wrong 9 times out of 10 about what the need is---.

That is why---the decision to buy a potent system should stay with the civilians with input from air force---. The civilian govt must decide what force does the nation needs to project thru its fighter aircraft force---.

The JF17 is a victim of Sab Theek Ho Jai Ga mentality---( atypical pakistani mentality---everything will be okay )---.

Not installing the IRST was a blunder---because next door---the J10 was hgetting one---.

Due to compromise in the design size---they have found out that they don't have a place to mount a FIXED IRST on the body of the aircraft---the nose cone is too small for a good sized aesa radar---the hard point are two few---basically the aircraft is about 20---25% smaller that the optimal size---.

As I had mentioned earlier many a times----they had a perfect operational example in front of them---the Japanese F2---.

The they also had the example of the J20 and the J31---both these aircraft built and made into testing platrforms for all the EW package even before the appropriate engine was available---. What that meant was---the moment the chinese best engine is ready---they would mount it on the aircraft and in the meantime---the aircraft design and integration would be completed---.

But again---the Paf played blind---and then look at the young pakistani here---lying their hearts out to make the JF17 look like what it is not---.

We had the ability and capability of producing a more competent air frame---but this Yessir---Theek Hai Sir---Aap Theek Kehtay Hein---mindset with out a civilian over sight---from an excellent project---it came down to between a good and a very good project---.

The kiss ar-se mentality of the Paf let this program from becoming extra ordinary to ordinary---.

Once the Pakistanis learn---that you don't have to go back to ZERO meters when you join a Relay race---you start from the position from where you are handed the baton---.



Hi,

We did not have to give any cutting edge tech---the western nations themselves sold it to them and the israelis designed it for them---.

We did not have any cutting edge tech---. Some western nation sold them those VERY expensive machines to tool the compressor blades for the ws10 engine---it was not pakistan---.

I though only bloody civilian that stupid, buy u seem to be an X' PAFi

Hi,

India would not have gone for the Rafale---. If you did not know that much---pity on you---.

Don't bring the blessings of allah on your blunders---.



Hi,

You had the americans during Mushy's era as well---but then the Pakistanis chose to side with the terrorists for 13 years---.

And if you did not know that much---then pity on you as well---.

It is so shameful that how you pakistani kids cherish your failures and incompetences---and then to top it off----you tell more lies and exegerrate more.




Hi,

When I talk with you people---I don't share ' my thinking '---. I like to bring historical precedence when it is about weapons and wars.

Because all the armies that talked about their greatness got smashed into smithereens by the very opponent they thought that they could decimate.

The only reason the allied forces were able to defeat germany was to strike deep into germany---.



Hi,

The JF 17 aircraft was a badly planned endeavor---. This program had no outside OVER SIGHT on it---. It was built by an air force---.

You know why the air forces of the world don't build their own aircraft---because they are wrong 9 times out of 10 about what the need is---.

That is why---the decision to buy a potent system should stay with the civilians with input from air force---. The civilian govt must decide what force does the nation needs to project thru its fighter aircraft force---.

The JF17 is a victim of Sab Theek Ho Jai Ga mentality---( atypical pakistani mentality---everything will be okay )---.

Not installing the IRST was a blunder---because next door---the J10 was hgetting one---.

Due to compromise in the design size---they have found out that they don't have a place to mount a FIXED IRST on the body of the aircraft---the nose cone is too small for a good sized aesa radar---the hard point are two few---basically the aircraft is about 20---25% smaller that the optimal size---.

As I had mentioned earlier many a times----they had a perfect operational example in front of them---the Japanese F2---.

The they also had the example of the J20 and the J31---both these aircraft built and made into testing platrforms for all the EW package even before the appropriate engine was available---. What that meant was---the moment the chinese best engine is ready---they would mount it on the aircraft and in the meantime---the aircraft design and integration would be completed---.

But again---the Paf played blind---and then look at the young pakistani here---lying their hearts out to make the JF17 look like what it is not---.

We had the ability and capability of producing a more competent air frame---but this Yessir---Theek Hai Sir---Aap Theek Kehtay Hein---mindset with out a civilian over sight---from an excellent project---it came down to between a good and a very good project---.

The kiss ar-se mentality of the Paf let this program from becoming extra ordinary to ordinary---.

Once the Pakistanis learn---that you don't have to go back to ZERO meters when you join a Relay race---you start from the position from where you are handed the baton---.



Hi,

We did not have to give any cutting edge tech---the western nations themselves sold it to them and the israelis designed it for them---.

We did not have any cutting edge tech---. Some western nation sold them those VERY expensive machines to tool the compressor blades for the ws10 engine---it was not pakistan---.

Ggg

Hi,

India would not have gone for the Rafale---. If you did not know that much---pity on you---.

Don't bring the blessings of allah on your blunders---.



Hi,

You had the americans during Mushy's era as well---but then the Pakistanis chose to side with the terrorists for 13 years---.

And if you did not know that much---then pity on you as well---.

It is so shameful that how you pakistani kids cherish your failures and incompetences---and then to top it off----you tell more lies and exegerrate more.




Hi,

When I talk with you people---I don't share ' my thinking '---. I like to bring historical precedence when it is about weapons and wars.

Because all the armies that talked about their greatness got smashed into smithereens by the very opponent they thought that they could decimate.

The only reason the allied forces were able to defeat germany was to strike deep into germany---.



Hi,

The JF 17 aircraft was a badly planned endeavor---. This program had no outside OVER SIGHT on it---. It was built by an air force---.

You know why the air forces of the world don't build their own aircraft---because they are wrong 9 times out of 10 about what the need is---.

That is why---the decision to buy a potent system should stay with the civilians with input from air force---. The civilian govt must decide what force does the nation needs to project thru its fighter aircraft force---.

The JF17 is a victim of Sab Theek Ho Jai Ga mentality---( atypical pakistani mentality---everything will be okay )---.

Not installing the IRST was a blunder---because next door---the J10 was hgetting one---.

Due to compromise in the design size---they have found out that they don't have a place to mount a FIXED IRST on the body of the aircraft---the nose cone is too small for a good sized aesa radar---the hard point are two few---basically the aircraft is about 20---25% smaller that the optimal size---.

As I had mentioned earlier many a times----they had a perfect operational example in front of them---the Japanese F2---.

The they also had the example of the J20 and the J31---both these aircraft built and made into testing platrforms for all the EW package even before the appropriate engine was available---. What that meant was---the moment the chinese best engine is ready---they would mount it on the aircraft and in the meantime---the aircraft design and integration would be completed---.

But again---the Paf played blind---and then look at the young pakistani here---lying their hearts out to make the JF17 look like what it is not---.

We had the ability and capability of producing a more competent air frame---but this Yessir---Theek Hai Sir---Aap Theek Kehtay Hein---mindset with out a civilian over sight---from an excellent project---it came down to between a good and a very good project---.

The kiss ar-se mentality of the Paf let this program from becoming extra ordinary to ordinary---.

Once the Pakistanis learn---that you don't have to go back to ZERO meters when you join a Relay race---you start from the position from where you are handed the baton---.



Hi,

We did not have to give any cutting edge tech---the western nations themselves sold it to them and the israelis designed it for them---.

We did not have any cutting edge tech---. Some western nation sold them those VERY expensive machines to tool the compressor blades for the ws10 engine---it was not pakistan---.

Hi,

India would not have gone for the Rafale---. If you did not know that much---pity on you---.

Don't bring the blessings of allah on your blunders---.



Hi,

You had the americans during Mushy's era as well---but then the Pakistanis chose to side with the terrorists for 13 years---.

And if you did not know that much---then pity on you as well---.

It is so shameful that how you pakistani kids cherish your failures and incompetences---and then to top it off----you tell more lies and exegerrate more.




Hi,

When I talk with you people---I don't share ' my thinking '---. I like to bring historical precedence when it is about weapons and wars.

Because all the armies that talked about their greatness got smashed into smithereens by the very opponent they thought that they could decimate.

The only reason the allied forces were able to defeat germany was to strike deep into germany---.



Hi,

The JF 17 aircraft was a badly planned endeavor---. This program had no outside OVER SIGHT on it---. It was built by an air force---.

You know why the air forces of the world don't build their own aircraft---because they are wrong 9 times out of 10 about what the need is---.

That is why---the decision to buy a potent system should stay with the civilians with input from air force---. The civilian govt must decide what force does the nation needs to project thru its fighter aircraft force---.

The JF17 is a victim of Sab Theek Ho Jai Ga mentality---( atypical pakistani mentality---everything will be okay )---.

Not installing the IRST was a blunder---because next door---the J10 was hgetting one---.

Due to compromise in the design size---they have found out that they don't have a place to mount a FIXED IRST on the body of the aircraft---the nose cone is too small for a good sized aesa radar---the hard point are two few---basically the aircraft is about 20---25% smaller that the optimal size---.

As I had mentioned earlier many a times----they had a perfect operational example in front of them---the Japanese F2---.

The they also had the example of the J20 and the J31---both these aircraft built and made into testing platrforms for all the EW package even before the appropriate engine was available---. What that meant was---the moment the chinese best engine is ready---they would mount it on the aircraft and in the meantime---the aircraft design and integration would be completed---.

But again---the Paf played blind---and then look at the young pakistani here---lying their hearts out to make the JF17 look like what it is not---.

We had the ability and capability of producing a more competent air frame---but this Yessir---Theek Hai Sir---Aap Theek Kehtay Hein---mindset with out a civilian over sight---from an excellent project---it came down to between a good and a very good project---.

The kiss ar-se mentality of the Paf let this program from becoming extra ordinary to ordinary---.

Once the Pakistanis learn---that you don't have to go back to ZERO meters when you join a Relay race---you start from the position from where you are handed the baton---.



Hi,

We did not have to give any cutting edge tech---the western nations themselves sold it to them and the israelis designed it for them---.

We did not have any cutting edge tech---. Some western nation sold them those VERY expensive machines to tool the compressor blades for the ws10 engine---it was not pakistan---.

Hi,

India would not have gone for the Rafale---. If you did not know that much---pity on you---.

Don't bring the blessings of allah on your blunders---.



Hi,

You had the americans during Mushy's era as well---but then the Pakistanis chose to side with the terrorists for 13 years---.

And if you did not know that much---then pity on you as well---.

It is so shameful that how you pakistani kids cherish your failures and incompetences---and then to top it off----you tell more lies and exegerrate more.




Hi,

When I talk with you people---I don't share ' my thinking '---. I like to bring historical precedence when it is about weapons and wars.

Because all the armies that talked about their greatness got smashed into smithereens by the very opponent they thought that they could decimate.

The only reason the allied forces were able to defeat germany was to strike deep into germany---.



Hi,

The JF 17 aircraft was a badly planned endeavor---. This program had no outside OVER SIGHT on it---. It was built by an air force---.

You know why the air forces of the world don't build their own aircraft---because they are wrong 9 times out of 10 about what the need is---.

That is why---the decision to buy a potent system should stay with the civilians with input from air force---. The civilian govt must decide what force does the nation needs to project thru its fighter aircraft force---.

The JF17 is a victim of Sab Theek Ho Jai Ga mentality---( atypical pakistani mentality---everything will be okay )---.

Not installing the IRST was a blunder---because next door---the J10 was hgetting one---.

Due to compromise in the design size---they have found out that they don't have a place to mount a FIXED IRST on the body of the aircraft---the nose cone is too small for a good sized aesa radar---the hard point are two few---basically the aircraft is about 20---25% smaller that the optimal size---.

As I had mentioned earlier many a times----they had a perfect operational example in front of them---the Japanese F2---.

The they also had the example of the J20 and the J31---both these aircraft built and made into testing platrforms for all the EW package even before the appropriate engine was available---. What that meant was---the moment the chinese best engine is ready---they would mount it on the aircraft and in the meantime---the aircraft design and integration would be completed---.

But again---the Paf played blind---and then look at the young pakistani here---lying their hearts out to make the JF17 look like what it is not---.

We had the ability and capability of producing a more competent air frame---but this Yessir---Theek Hai Sir---Aap Theek Kehtay Hein---mindset with out a civilian over sight---from an excellent project---it came down to between a good and a very good project---.

The kiss ar-se mentality of the Paf let this program from becoming extra ordinary to ordinary---.

Once the Pakistanis learn---that you don't have to go back to ZERO meters when you join a Relay race---you start from the position from where you are handed the baton---.



Hi,

We did not have to give any cutting edge tech---the western nations themselves sold it to them and the israelis designed it for them---.

We did not have any cutting edge tech---. Some western nation sold them those VERY expensive machines to tool the compressor blades for the ws10 engine---it was not pakistan---.

Dear Sir, perhaps u did n't know that PA chiefs more or less came after informal approvals of many powers, including USA ( as many predict). Our Army leadership in Mushy era was itself divided in pro and anti western blocks.Now facts show and as per accounts of some Musharaf's own subordinates was perhaps acting like a puppet for USA.

We were much suppressed rather then being in commanding position, drones were roaming freely and Jacobbabad Airbase was and still is more or less in control of US military officials. At least at start of Musharaf's take over I was much nearer to army circles ( u assumed wrongly abt me). I have seen with my own eyes foreigners in informal clothes with physique of Superman in Islamabad during that era.Even many died during bombing of Holiday Inn in Islamabad.

Pak was threatened and given no choice along with a westernized ruler like Musharaf. I am agreed that we have got shit and scrapped material since then however even that was made useful by our pros.



Dear Sir, perhaps u did n't know that PA chiefs more or less came after informal approvals of many powers, including USA ( as many predict). Our Army leadership in Mushy era was itself divided in pro and anti western blocks.Now facts show and as per accounts of some Musharaf's own subordinates was perhaps acting like a puppet for USA.

We were much suppressed rather then being in commanding position, drones were roaming freely and Jacobbabad Airbase was and still is more or less in control of US military officials. At least at start of Musharaf's take over I was much nearer to army circles ( u assumed wrongly abt me). I have seen with my own eyes foreigners in informal clothes with physique of Superman in Islamabad during that era.Even many died during bombing of Holiday Inn in Islamabad.

Pak was threatened and given no choice along with a westernized ruler like Musharaf. I am agreed that we have got shit and scrapped material since then however even that was made useful by our pros.

i would have thought only bloody civilians could be that stupid, you seem to be X' PAF and still quiet reactive, spiteful and incendiary in your comments. in the hind sight every planning looks faulty.
JF-17 is one strategic decision made by PAF, it will help Pakistan a long way in meeting fighter requirements. Other members have given enough args and history.
i will agree on Yes Sir mentality, but that's how Pak Military functions. there should civilian engineers and managers at PAC to bring another angle and talent from open market.

regardng Rafael, Pak never had that much money to buy 4-5 squdrons even in tranches.

PAF should go for SU-35 for heavy fighter/bomber and then for 5th Gen platform like J31 if chinese do keep developing and induct it. in the meanwhile Thunder is good enough to replace vintage mig-21 incarnations and mirage III/IV which are dropping like lead weights.