Secularists should 'mend ways or leave country', says PTI lawmaker

[niaz]

I asked what kind of Islamic laws you would want to do away with / have relaxations on. What you've said above doesn't answer this very simple question.

The answer is so simple that it is north worth saying. 1973 Constitution was the only one unanimously accepted by all the parties. I would therefore do away with all the amendments in the constitution which were enacted by Zia-ul Haq.

 

[MULUBJA]

Islamic culture and lifestyle is meant to be nurtured

What is Islamic culture? Islam is a religion and never heard anything such as Islamic culture? Is this term invented by you? Please enlight us about Islamic culture. I am eager to educate myself about Islamic culture.

 

[Verve]

Words have different meanings depending on how it's used. However, you can't use multiple definitions at once. You'er using libertine as an adj., 4 or 6, and noun 1., yet you turn around and say that it means freethinker. So either you lack understanding of the language you are writing in, or you are purposely being hypocritical to flame bate and confuse those you are debating with.

I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt, and hope I helped you.

P.S. Freethinker, is able to explore the teachings of Allah (God, or whatever language you speak) and the Prophets, and the physical universe, using reason without the dogma of taqlid, allowing them to expand their fitra.

In other words, practicing ijtihad. Which you seem to be against.

Exploring Allah's commands through reflection is not freethinking as one is confined within the defined guidelines and boundaries.

Exploring without consideration of Allah's commands is freethinking, without any guidelines and boundaries.

That's what I've been.

Please differentiate between 'free to think' and 'freethinker'.

Darwinism is the product of freethinking.

 

[Verve]

The answer is so simple that it is north worth saying. 1973 Constitution was the only one unanimously accepted by all the parties. I would therefore do away with all the amendments in the constitution which were enacted by Zia-ul Haq.

Interesting. Let's ask.

Does the original 73 constitution fit the bill for all liberals and seculars here?

@Azlan Haider @Fallen King @Hell hound @Syed.Ali.Haider

 

[Zibago]

Very funny lol@ you. Canada claims to be a country for everybodyD

Haye maa sadkey sada kuta kuta tuada kuta tomy

@The Sandman @Zibago @Fallen King @Azlan Haider @XenoEnsi-14 from what i have gathered after reading 16 pages is that people here just hating on a the liberal and secular tag here just for the sake of hating it and are putting no effort in understanding the idea behind it.they think of liberalism as some kind of static western concept which is unmalleable hence can only be applied the way it is applied in western countries.what they fail to understand is that it is a dynamic in nature and all it do is provide you with some building blocks in the form of basic concepts and moralities.after that your are free to build upon it keeping your culture and surrounding environment in mind.

He lives in a country which is example of exactly that

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

I am agree with Ali Mohammad Khan. If libra wants to live they can no one ask questions but If they bring their baygairat bergade to change perception of Pakistan then they better take their ladies and out cuz if they live here they only bring only fitna.
Pakistan is not going to change for any one we gonna live with the rules our beloved prophet Mohammad (PBUH) taught us.

 

[Zibago]

It would be so nice if net muftis would leave dar ul harbs first
They pay tax to kafirs who promote zina and kufr

I am agree with Ali Mohammad Khan. If libra wants to live they can no one ask questions but If they bring their baygairat bergade to change perception of Pakistan then they better take their ladies and out cuz if they live here they only bring only fitna.
Pakistan is not going to change for any one we gonna live with the rules our beloved prophet Mohammad (PBUH) taught us.

Am i the only one who thinks he is riling up right wing supporters because baboon in law captain dangar did it first ?
Read between the lines buddy things are not always what they seem ;-)

Jinnah wanted an Islamic Pakistan and not a secular or a theocratic Pakistan. People need to understand Islamic Pakistan is nor theocratic neither it is secular, but it is opposite of both. People like Justice Munir misguided the youth by wrongly quoting Jinnah's addresses without regard to context, circumstances and by deliberately omitting parts and lines from Jinnah's addresses.

If people of Pakistan believe Jinnah wanted a secular Pakistan then it would be strengthening the idea of enemies who say Jinnah wanted a separate land for himself to rule. The Muslim nationalists and congress were content with secular india after partition ........... if Jinnah wanted secular state then why would he so vehemently support the idea of a separate country for Muslims of subcontinent? Munir and his disciples do injustice to Jinnah and his ten year struggle. Jinnah's first broadcast to American people and countless other addresses clearly show what he wanted, and he was a man following Quran he wouldn't disown his word soon after he accomplished a miracle like Pakistan.

A theocracy is opposite of an Islamic state, Mullahs get to make decisions in a theocracy but in Islamic state the state itself derives laws from Quran according to their needs within unchangeable limits provided by Quran. And Quran amply addresses rights of minorities and freedom of humans. @Arsalan

Pakistan has no concrete system or direction buzzwords have little meaning in Pakistan here religious laws like blood money are abused by those who cant even say kalima(waderay kay betas)
When you say you want to get rid of them you get labels well i saw with my own eyes an accident by a careless driver brushed under the rug using the law for just Rs 25000 kiya ye hay insan ki qeemat?
Kiya is key khilaf na bolein?
How many countries have it?

The answer is so simple that it is north worth saying. 1973 Constitution was the only one unanimously accepted by all the parties. I would therefore do away with all the amendments in the constitution which were enacted by Zia-ul Haq.

That will be a positive start but we should pull teeth out of blood money law just like we pulled teeth out of hudood ordinance in 2006 it will help poor greatly in getting justiice and we will plug a legal loop hole of getting away with murder well atleast on paper

 

[Verve]

I believe in GOD and i am free-thinkers

Hindus claim the same, and Kafirs' of the arab used to say the same that there is one God but their 'freethinking' minds lead them to have idols as sub-Gods leading to the One God!

Do you consider yourself to have the same belief system as current day Hindus or the Kafirs' of the Arab past?

How do you differentiate yourself as a Muslim from these?

Do you believe in the 1st Kalima?

 

[Hell hound]

Does the original 73 constitution fit the bill for all liberals and seculars here?

are you still using the tech from 73 ? if not then it means times have change and we need to accommodate those changes.

Haye maa sadkey sada kuta kuta tuada kuta tomy

hypocrisy at its best

 

[M. Sarmad]

Jinnah wanted an Islamic Pakistan and not a secular or a theocratic Pakistan. People need to understand Islamic Pakistan is nor theocratic neither it is secular, but it is opposite of both.....

Jinnah declared categorically that Pakistan would not be a theocratic state. Did he say that Pakistan would not be secular state ?

Also please tell us how Jinnah's Muslim Pakistan is "opposite" of Secular when in Jinnah's own words the fundamental principle we started with was that everyone was equal citizen of the state, and (belonging to any) religion had nothing to do with the business of the state ?


And Jinnah used to describe Pakistan as a "Muslim state", not as "Islamic State":

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-system-by-wajsal.455694/page-12#post-8962558

 

[Verve]

Jinnah declared categorically that Pakistan would not be a theocratic state. Did he say that Pakistan would not be secular state ?

Also please tell us how Jinnah's Muslim Pakistan is "opposite" of Secular when in Jinnah's own words the fundamental principle we started with was that everyone was equal citizen of the state, and (belonging to any) religion had nothing to do with the business of the state ?


And Jinnah used to describe Pakistan as a "Muslim state", not as "Islamic State":

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-system-by-wajsal.455694/page-12#post-8962558

1:47 ..... 'Pakistan should be based on PURE foundations of social justice and Islamic ... Islamic Socialism, not other isms'!

 

[Musafir117]

I am agree with Ali Mohammad Khan. If libra wants to live they can no one ask questions but If they bring their baygairat bergade to change perception of Pakistan then they better take their ladies and out cuz if they live here they only bring only fitna.
Pakistan is not going to change for any one we gonna live with the rules our beloved prophet Mohammad (PBUH) taught us.

Time to leave beghrat mulla tolla who opposed Pakistan and called Jinnah Kafir e Aazm. No place for bloody fasadai type molvis here

 

[Verve]

How can one even begin to doubt that Jinnah didn't oppose secularism when he wanted Pakistan's Banking practices to be compatible with Islamic idea of social and economic life, and an Economic system based on true Islamic concept of ....

PTI leader is correct, get lost you lot!

Full speech : http://www.jinnah.pk/2009/09/27/the-state-bank-of-pakistan-a-symbol-of-our-sovereignty/

 

[M. Sarmad]

1:47 ..... 'Islamic Socialism, not other isms'!

An Islamic Socialist State can be a Secular Democracy at the same time. What is your point ?

Islamic Socialism is most widely associated with Qaddafi of Libya. His regime was secular

 

[M. Sarmad]

How can one even begin to doubt that Jinnah didn't oppose secularism when he wanted Pakistan's Banking practices to be compatible with Islamic idea of social and economic life, and an Economic system based on true Islamic concept......

And what has Banking practices got to do with Secularism ???

Secularism was rejected, clearly!

Quote Jinnah's words if you can, not your own