Second test of Nirbhay cruise missile in February

[Bratva]

Brahmos uses DSMAC .Nirbhay is a loitering missile,so I dont think these would go on them.

Meaning ?

 

[gslv mk3]

Meaning ?

That was a typo.Wouldn't the route have to be pre planned,including launch point if we use TERCOM/DSMAC?

 

[Bratva]

Wouldn't the route have to be pre planned,including launch point if we use TERCOM/DSMAC?

There is no question of IF. These two technologies are must for every subsonic CM.
Yes route is preplanned. Only if data links are installed in CM would alter it's path in real time. To have ground hugging capability, TERCOM is used, and to choose point of impact at terminal guidance, DSMAC is used.

HowStuffWorks "How Cruise Missiles Work"

 

[gslv mk3]

There is no question of IF. These two technologies are must for every subsonic CM.

HowStuffWorks "How Cruise Missiles Work"

AGM-158 JASSM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ??

One disadvantage of TERCOM systems is that the entire route has to be pre-planned, including its launch point. If the missile is launched from an unexpected location or flies too far off-course, it will never fly over the features included in the maps, and become lost

This makes TERCOM based systems much less flexible than more modern systems like GPS, which can be set to attack any location from any location, and does not require any sort of pre-recorded information which means they can be targeted immediately prior to launch.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

India's Babur Copy.

 

[Bratva]

AGM-158 JASSM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ??

Keep in mind, we are talking about LACM, not ALCM. Nirbhay is LACM. Search LACM and it's guidance units.

While Air launched CM family employs a slightly different guidance, INS/TERCOM/ with terminal guidance primarily IIR seeker/GPS or if one can't develop IIR, DSMAC . Storm Shadow, Ra'ad, SOM of turkey JASSM all are ALCM

 

[Gessler]

Not directly related to Nirbhay, but worth a mention -

New X-band SAR seeker developed by DATA Patterns for BrahMos-1 :-

According to PSG, this will replace the existing Russian Granit JSC-supplied SGH seeker on BrahMos.

ALPHA Electronics had also reportedly developed it's own version of SAR seeker for BrahMos-1 but
lost the competition to the DATA Patterns seeker.

 

[holysaturn]

Keep in mind, we are talking about LACM, not ALCM. Nirbhay is LACM. Search LACM and it's guidance units.

While Air launched CM family employs a slightly different guidance, INS/TERCOM/ with terminal guidance primarily IIR seeker/GPS or if one can't develop IIR, DSMAC . Storm Shadow, Ra'ad, SOM of turkey JASSM all are ALCM

Just because pakistani missiles use it ,it doesnt become a must.Ring laser gyro is the most advanced INS available today (have doubt check these links out why RLG based navigation is set to replace tercom and dsmac are http://www.asee.org/documents/secti...aser-And-Fiber-Optic-Gyroscope-Technology.pdf
Cruise Missiles: Technology, Strategy, Politics - Google Books
The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory
Its a quantum leap over analog ones which i think babur has)
That is why its so closely gaurded considering the US most advanced slbm trident employs it.....
Latest american cruise missiles employ a mix of laser gyro ins and a seeker eg. Slam-er Standoff Land Attack Missile Expanded Response (SLAM-ER) | NAVAIR - U.S. Navy Naval Air Systems Command - Navy and Marine Corps Aviation Research, Development, Acquisition, Test and Evaluation, jassmhttp://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/ne...uary/JASSMSFlightTestDemonstratesUniqueM.html......

One of the reasons tercom,dsmac are not used because nirbhay is a loitering missile " This is a loitering missile which can round a target and perform several manoeuvres when required. It has very good precision, endurance and accuracy."‘Nirbhay’ missile test next month -The New Indian Express and tercom doesnt allow rerouting as the the missiles path is already fixed "One disadvantage of TERCOM systems is that the entire route has to be pre-planned, including its launch point. If the missile is launched from an unexpected location or flies too far off-course, it will never fly over the features included in the maps, and become lost. "TERCOM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
. Planning a cruise missile attack properly is a complex task, as the opposing air defences must be carefully mapped out, terrain must be studied, and appropriate ingress head- ings and waypoints chosen to minimise weapon exposure time to the target’s terminal SAM/AAA defences. This can be further complicated in environments with intense GPS jam- ming, as terrain contour matching (TERCOM/TERPROM) and optical correlator (DSMAC) guidance techniques require overflight of sufficiently complex terrain features to provide good navigational fixes.
http://www.ausairpower.net/PDF-A/TE-ALCM-Dec-04-PA.pdf

The us and russia use it because they had sophisticated imaging sattelites which took extensive images of waypoints before feeding them into the missile ,btw pakistan cannot rely on china for such information during crisis .
And about the seeker slam-er,jassm have seekers and even the kh-55 was planned to have a seekerKh-55 (missile family) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[faithfulguy]

So when was this missile tested during Feb?

 

[Bratva]

Just because pakistani missiles use it ,it doesnt become a must.Ring laser gyro is the most advanced INS available today (have doubt check these links out why RLG based navigation is set to replace tercom and dsmac are http://www.asee.org/documents/secti...aser-And-Fiber-Optic-Gyroscope-Technology.pdf
Cruise Missiles: Technology, Strategy, Politics - Google Books
The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory
Its a quantum leap over analog ones which i think babur has)
That is why its so closely gaurded considering the US most advanced slbm trident employs it.....
Latest american cruise missiles employ a mix of laser gyro ins and a seeker eg. Slam-er Standoff Land Attack Missile Expanded Response (SLAM-ER) | NAVAIR - U.S. Navy Naval Air Systems Command - Navy and Marine Corps Aviation Research, Development, Acquisition, Test and Evaluation, jassmhttp://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/ne...uary/JASSMSFlightTestDemonstratesUniqueM.html......

One of the reasons tercom,dsmac are not used because nirbhay is a loitering missile " This is a loitering missile which can round a target and perform several manoeuvres when required. It has very good precision, endurance and accuracy."‘Nirbhay’ missile test next month -The New Indian Express and tercom doesnt allow rerouting as the the missiles path is already fixed "One disadvantage of TERCOM systems is that the entire route has to be pre-planned, including its launch point. If the missile is launched from an unexpected location or flies too far off-course, it will never fly over the features included in the maps, and become lost. "TERCOM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
. Planning a cruise missile attack properly is a complex task, as the opposing air defences must be carefully mapped out, terrain must be studied, and appropriate ingress head- ings and waypoints chosen to minimise weapon exposure time to the target’s terminal SAM/AAA defences. This can be further complicated in environments with intense GPS jam- ming, as terrain contour matching (TERCOM/TERPROM) and optical correlator (DSMAC) guidance techniques require overflight of sufficiently complex terrain features to provide good navigational fixes.
http://www.ausairpower.net/PDF-A/TE-ALCM-Dec-04-PA.pdf

The us and russia use it because they had sophisticated imaging sattelites which took extensive images of waypoints before feeding them into the missile ,btw pakistan cannot rely on china for such information during crisis .
And about the seeker slam-er,jassm have seekers and even the kh-55 was planned to have a seekerKh-55 (missile family) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How would Nirbhay have a ground hugging capability without Tercom and no, how much advance ING becomes, it doesnt provide ground hugging capability.

And the second wrong assumption. Cruise missile with TERCOM can be rerouted and even go after moving targets. Read about Tomahawk LACM block IV. Loitering capability in simple terms means it can be re routed in real time. TOMAHAWK does have loitering capability through GPS.

Every Cruise missile be it LACM or ALCM employs some kind of TERCOM. European Storm Shadow employs TERPROM, kind of TERCOM


What JASSM did is it replaced TERCOM with GPS receiver and a data link, kind of man in loop configuration. They can watch complete missile flight and configure it i real time, hence no need of TERCOM, which is basically when you don't have a man in loop configuration and needs an autonomous config to retain Missile ground hugging capability

The 1020kg (2250lb) JASSM uses an unconventional configuration, with a stealthy fuselage, planar swept wings and a single vertical tail. The cited engine is the Teledyne/CAE
J402-CA-100 turbojet, providing a range in excess of 200nm (370km) with a 450kg (1000lb) WDU-42/B (J-1000) penetrating warhead. The guidance and seeker package includes an
inertial unit, a jam resistant GPS receiver, a datalink, and a thermal imaging terminal seeker, incorporating a similar autonomous pattern matching terminal guidance capability to
the ATA in the SLAM-ER

 

[faithfulguy]

So I guess there was no test?

 

[holysaturn]

How would Nirbhay have a ground hugging capability without Tercom and no, how much advance ING becomes, it doesnt provide ground hugging capability.

And the second wrong assumption. Cruise missile with TERCOM can be rerouted and even go after moving targets. Read about Tomahawk LACM block IV. Loitering capability in simple terms means it can be re routed in real time. TOMAHAWK does have loitering capability through GPS.

Every Cruise missile be it LACM or ALCM employs some kind of TERCOM. European Storm Shadow employs TERPROM, kind of TERCOM


What JASSM did is it replaced TERCOM with GPS receiver and a data link, kind of man in loop configuration. They can watch complete missile flight and configure it i real time, hence no need of TERCOM, which is basically when you don't have a man in loop configuration and needs an autonomous config to retain Missile ground hugging capability

So how do sea skimming missiles(where tercom is useless) or brahmos for the matter fly low without tercom or dsmac so flying low doesnt depend on TERCOM but just altimeters or SAR seekers .
Go check out SLAM_ER cruise missile even it uses RLG gyro and if you had read the articles I have posted it is clearly suggested that cheaper reliable RLG INS should be used in the future,btw even Trident SLBM uses RLG based INS which shows how reliable it must be considering it will be usually used without GPS assistance in SLBMs.

 

[Bratva]

So how do sea skimming missiles(where tercom is useless) or brahmos for the matter fly low without tercom or dsmac so flying low doesnt depend on TERCOM but just altimeters or SAR seekers .
Go check out SLAM_ER cruise missile even it uses RLG gyro and if you had read the articles I have posted it is clearly suggested that cheaper reliable RLG INS should be used in the future,btw even Trident SLBM uses RLG based INS which shows how reliable it must be considering it will be usually used without GPS assistance in SLBMs.

Yar, Please do some research and I repeat, don't confuse yourself, I read your post which is itself full of contradictory things which is corrupting yoour basics even. TERCOM or it's variants is used in LACM, ALCM because land is not flat. In simple words TERCOM is ground proximity warning system. Now come to Sea, it's flat, missile becomes supersonic here and hence SAR is used, because missile spedding at 2K-3K KPH and need a very fast imaging system which SAR provides. Do you even know what is SAR is? Synthetic aperature radar ( which is a Synthetic aperture provides radar to Image the land below it).

Since Brahmos is a supersonic missile, Hence it uses a X band SAR ( correct me if I'm wrong) and properties of X band is to track fast moving objects, hence X band SAR

Now you are bringing ballistic missiles in a discussion,,, please stop it... TERCOM and SAR provides Ground hugging capabilities to Cruise missiles, Does SLBM does ground hugging? Use your brain atleast


Take SAR, TERCOM or it's variants from Cruise missiles and let it fly sloely on INS no matter hoe advance it is,,, It would never do ground hugging.

And about the JASSM or SLAM ER,,,, it is a short range ALCM,,,, I have already mentioned ALCM guidance system unique capabilities. You didn't bother to read it,,, nor you bother to read we are discussing LACM here


Instead of arguing first,,, Show ME ONE LACM which DOESNT USE TERCOM or similar flavour of it!

 

[holysaturn]

Yar, Please do some research and I repeat, don't confuse yourself, I read your post which is itself full of contradictory things which is corrupting yoour basics even. TERCOM or it's variants is used in LACM, ALCM because land is not flat. In simple words TERCOM is ground proximity warning system. Now come to Sea, it's flat, missile becomes supersonic here and hence SAR is used, because missile spedding at 2K-3K KPH and need a very fast imaging system which SAR provides. Do you even know what is SAR is? Synthetic aperature radar ( which is a Synthetic aperture provides radar to Image the land below it).

Since Brahmos is a supersonic missile, Hence it uses a X band SAR ( correct me if I'm wrong) and properties of X band is to track fast moving objects, hence X band SAR

Now you are bringing ballistic missiles in a discussion,,, please stop it... TERCOM and SAR provides Ground hugging capabilities to Cruise missiles, Does SLBM does ground hugging? Use your brain atleast


Take SAR, TERCOM or it's variants from Cruise missiles and let it fly sloely on INS no matter hoe advance it is,,, It would never do ground hugging.

And about the JASSM or SLAM ER,,,, it is a short range ALCM,,,, I have already mentioned ALCM guidance system unique capabilities. You didn't bother to read it,,, nor you bother to read we are discussing LACM here


Instead of arguing first,,, Show ME ONE LACM which DOESNT USE TERCOM or similar flavour of it!

I dont kno what you are saying the only thing different between an air launched cruise missile and ALCM is the launch platforms and the launching method , I dont know how you differentiate the navigation systems, navigation systems dont depend on air launched or ground launched.

 

[Bratva]

I dont kno what you are saying the only thing different between an air launched cruise missile and ALCM is the launch platforms and the launching method , I dont know how you differentiate the navigation systems, navigation systems dont depend on air launched or ground launched.

Not only platform is changed but LACM and ALCM guidance is slightly different and for the rest of your post,,, ignorance is reeking. Instead of engaging in useless argument, why not read up LACM, ALCM, TERCOM, DSMAC basic to clear up your concepts and why LRG based INS is not solely used in Cruise missiles only.