Second Hand F-16's for PAF

[Luftwaffe]

Bring F-16s with low mileage on cheap and have them go through MLU if needed. Its a perfect move for PAF while inducting JF-17's in numbers.

PAF Strongly needs to negotiate RNLF F-16s, This is the time.

 

[fatman17]

the most likely source for additional Vipers is US-EDA stocks or direct purchase from LM (govt.to govt. contract)

 

[araz]

This would be an ideal mid term solution allowing us to utilize available manpower infrastructure and expertise. J10Bs will take time to integrate as we are taking time integrating JFT. Members have asked questions about the logic of this induction and these questions have been answered adequately. The difficulties with raising the 3rd squadren of JFTs has highlighted the problems in mass scale change of equipment. Do people really believe that the situation might be any different with J 10s?There will need to be a setup of equipment and infrastructure and training of pilots. Lastly we still have not resolved the engine issue.
Araz

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Time to get out of comfort zone and start looking into solutions for J10B , setting up bunkers and hangers for planes

New is new , and old is gone , time to get on with future and stop dreaming about 1970 its not 70`s anymore

 

[Najam Khan]

the most likely source for additional Vipers is US-EDA stocks or direct purchase from LM (govt.to govt. contract)

It seems so. Most of people here are suggesting procurement for XYZ F-16 users, but the million dollar question is who will allow this sale? without US/LM consent no F16 user can sale its aircraft to other users, getting some spares via black market is a different thing.

Pakistan should buy low cost F16 MLUs for spare cannibalization, just like they did in Ex-Libyan Mirages deal, circa 2004. 50 a/c were bought, only 12 were made operational in air force. That was a very luck deal for PAF, Libyans gave them at throw away costs...all they wanted was PAF to return back their containers. Which country in the world does that?

If PAF procures 24 F16s at 14-16mil$ per a/c, 10 are made operational then that is the best deal for them.

 

[Last Hope]

It seems so. Most of people here are suggesting procurement for XYZ F-16 users, but the million dollar question is who will allow this sale? without US/LM consent no F16 user can sale its aircraft to other users, getting some spares via black market is a different thing.

Pakistan should buy low cost F16 MLUs for spare cannibalization, just like they did in Ex-Libyan Mirages deal, circa 2004. 50 a/c were bought, only 12 were made operational in air force. That was a very luck deal for PAF, Libyans gave them at throw away costs...all they wanted was PAF to return back their containers. Which country in the world does that?

If PAF procures 24 F16s at 14-16mil$ per a/c, 10 are made operational then that is the best deal for them.

Same happened with AH-1F Cobra, from Jordan. The Squadron of second hand cobra which were cheap and in poor quality were used for spare parts. The Ex-USN F-16s via EDA, I support them to be used for same purpose.

 

[Donatello]

It seems so. Most of people here are suggesting procurement for XYZ F-16 users, but the million dollar question is who will allow this sale? without US/LM consent no F16 user can sale its aircraft to other users, getting some spares via black market is a different thing.

Pakistan should buy low cost F16 MLUs for spare cannibalization, just like they did in Ex-Libyan Mirages deal, circa 2004. 50 a/c were bought, only 12 were made operational in air force. That was a very luck deal for PAF, Libyans gave them at throw away costs...all they wanted was PAF to return back their containers. Which country in the world does that?

If PAF procures 24 F16s at 14-16mil$ per a/c, 10 are made operational then that is the best deal for them.

Najam Sahib,

Lockheed Martin is not the issue, the US government and US-Pakistan relations are.


BTW, why would the libyans ask for the containers back? And why did they sell off 50 Mirage? Cash???

 

[batmannow]

Keeping pakistan airforce hostage for the dam F-16z from our un-spoken enemy is a ruthless excuse, which may result a kargill like situation, when we couldn't able to give air-cover to our forces?
In any form of airwar , we need to hve airassests which canbe flyable at any times with full spares in stores.
Problem lies when some of our hotshots tries to convert. J-10 to rapptor this is the dam mindset which is delaying PAF to move forward in freedom & independence from the teeths of uncle sam?
We hve enough of it , PAF needs to break this dam cycle of slavry & say good bye to falcons.

 

[Imran Khan]

Same happened with AH-1F Cobra, from Egypt I guess. The Squadron of second hand cobra which were cheap and in poor quality were used for spare parts. The Ex-USN F-16s via EDA, I support them to be used for same purpose.

egypt have no cobras ever sir jee it was US storage in Jordan

 

[umair86pk]

It is a matter of want vs. need. The PAF urgently requires modern aircraft, but doesn't posses the funds to acquire them. Used f-16s come at a massive discount, and provide the capabilities expected of a late 4th generation platform(not necessarily as efficiently and effectively as it's newest competitors). Extracting another two decades from aircraft that require a relatively small outlay of funds would be the best case scenario for the PAF, under the circumstances.
The F-16, even in it's block 52 form, is potent enough to hold its own against the best any potential adversary has to offer. Will it dominate the skies and have a 100% success rate on strike mission, obviously not. But it does provide the PAF with a tangible upgrade in carrying out air interdiction and air superiority missions over it's current capability.
Over time, the F-16 will fall short, not because of what it lacks today but because of it's diminished role in the fast modernizing USAF. In the here and now, it can go toe to toe with any other 4th generation aircraft. It just doesn't provide the same scope for future modernization and development; but that is precisely why procuring the aircraft at a massive discount is such a good idea. Consider it a safe way to tackle the next couple of decades of deplorable funding in the face of a growing adversary.

F-16 will be relevant in near future for USAF they are upgrading 300 of them to V standards with AESA and newer capabilities it will not be retired by USAF atleast 2030 and with delays and problems with overkill JSF F-16 wont be replaced anytime soon.

 

[umair86pk]

IMHO, this doesn't seems a good idea, i mean when IAF rejected the latest F-16s in the MMRCA race, it sighted two reasons for it, first being that F-16 is already operated by the PAF & second being that since the original F-16s first flown as far back as 1970s, they now have achieved there full tech. maturity with possibility of upgrades very minimal, since IAF worked out that they have to operate these a/c for next 4 decades, they insisted on a newer plane which can be upgraded after 15-20 years to suit the changing times. Even if PAF wants to keep these second hand F-16s for next 20-25 years, then i don't understand the rational behind it since by that time every major AF in the world will be operating 4.5+ gen a/c, & keeping 4th gen a/c in the inventory doesn't makes sense.

F-16 is a very decent airframe thats why LM is testing new variations. As long as you can put better avionics in it it will remain a potent and relevant fighter in every scenario. Its like B-52 just put new avionics and you get a new aircraft. With the introduction of F-16V variant on the lines of F-16E/F with far more better avionics than its predecessors it has out lived its competitors such as MiG-29 and certainly Mirage 2000.

 

[fatman17]

original F-16s first flown as far back as 1970s

1979 was the 1st year F-16 was operational. even then it is a mature platform and the F-16E/F is a totally different aircraft than the original F-16A/B. the F-16IN offered to India was also a 'india-centric' model.

 

[Imran Khan]

original F-16s first flown as far back as 1970s

1979 was the 1st year F-16 was operational. even then it is a mature platform and the F-16E/F is a totally different aircraft than the original F-16A/B. the F-16IN offered to India was also a 'india-centric' model.

but now russia china are not like 70s sir they are making very good future planes .so better then old f-16 we should look east with new .

 

[OrionHunter]

I read somewhere that these 'Second Hand F 16s' are actually deconstructed to the nut before being put back together with the parts that need replacement being replaced & others added (in case of the MLU) ! Is this an accurate description of what happpens ?

Not literally. The airframe remains the same and much else too. The fact is that it's a 40 year old platform and metal fatigue does take its toll. How long more it could last is the question, seeing the stress it undergoes during high g manoeuvres which is most of the time.

 

[IceCold]

We should hold our horses in peace time and get our economy back on track and after that start looking towards better options maybe even joining in the 5th generation project. These stop gap measures should be a thing of the past.