SAUDI ARABIA REPORTEDLY INTERESTED IN THE JF-17 THUNDER

[imadul]

Pak Friends, Brothers,

Please, forgive if my comments cause hurt or sense of insult. None is my intention.


It is a painful sight to see Pak political and professional classes bending over backward in front of those who see them as subhumans. Truly, sad sight.


A country which has produced and is producing strategic weapons. LACM, SRBM, MRBM, battle field BM, ALCM, building tanks and 4+ gen fighter jets and down the road SSN/SSBN... whose sons and daughters work in the West in some of the finest instituitions.. (Some posters here are example of that).... and yet this Civilisation State and its ruling elite has NO Self Respect.

Should we see it as tragedy or farce?


The Game has changed. The intended old Word Order is dead. Welcome to the New World Order of multiploar axis. And your great country is one Pivotal state.

When will your ruling elite act with dignity that you, the People of Pak, deserve?



Regarding, the weapon systems of Pak State for these GCC states... stop trying to sell them. Let them come and ask. I shall not use a strong word here.

The little enterprise in Syria that these players financed and sponsored is dead in waters. With the Trump Admin the changes are going to be profound. Those pets will come back to their owners and do what they have been programmed to do.

Pak must wait for the opportune moment.

As I have said many times before... Pak is CA and ME regional power. A balancer between ME waring secterian factions. If only Pak ever will act as one...The new Security Gaurantor of Peace and Security in ME i.e. Pakistan. Get your economy going first and far most. Break the bloody beggar's bowl forever.



Focus must be towards JF blockIII and beyond...together with NGF that is being worked on behind the scenes.

IT is time to Act according to your own worth. Stop degrading yourself in front of those who see you as subhumans.

If anyone wants to buy these potent systems...sign the contract with downpayment and treat Pak with RESPECT.

It truly saddens me to see such a great Civilisational State acting so weakly.

You are not poor. Never in your thousands of years history have to been poor. This current state of econmy is the result of incompetence and betrayal on part of the so-called rulers.

Time to Accept your worth...onwards to Block iii and NGF. Built in Pak for Pak.


Bless this Great Civlisational State whose people are sleepwalking!


.

Thank you for kind words. Pak is reaching the corner, not yet turning it, but getting there slowly.
CPEC is game changer and many friendly countries are working to sabotage it but CPEC is there to stay.
Pak is the most resilient country in the world... Walking still... After so many wounds from east/west borders and corrupt ruling oligharcy. But there is light at the end of tunnel. PA has defeated india, afg sponsored terrorist after great sacrifices. Many others were also working covertly and PA only army that cut the hedious three headed Cerberus.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

200 Plane deal and then we celebrate

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Thank you for kind words. Pak is reaching the corner, not yet turning it, but getting there slowly.
CPEC is game changer and many friendly countries are working to sabotage it but CPEC is there to stay.
Pak is the most resilient country in the world... Walking still... After so many wounds from east/west borders and corrupt ruling oligharcy. But there is light at the end of tunnel. PA has defeated india, afg sponsored terrorist after great sacrifices. Many others were also working covertly and PA only army that cut the hedious three headed Cerberus.

.


My Brother,

Pak is a Civilisational State. One of the Fountainheads of the Ancient World. Your great country has the Momentum of Life within and with it. Hence, you keep surviving against all odds. It is all in your Geometery.


However, as a Friend, I would like to say...enough of this surviving businness against all adversities... now it is time for Thriving against all odds!

I just hope your people just see and accept who they are from within and drop all these fake ideas of belonging to ideas or identities that are plain wrong.

Let us all wait for JF block3 and beyond...then cometh the Next Generation Fighter... built in Pak for Pak. Then cometh the SSN/SSBNs built in Pak for Pak.

Then cometh the SLV and locally built assets for betterment of Pak peoples. Time to do Outstanding things, my Pak Friends!


Long live this Great Land of Dancing Horse!


.

 

[ADIL SHERDIL]

Saudis has one think in abundance and that is oil which mean penalty of money and for every R&D you need financial help which Saudis would easily pay if they want to keep Iran at bay because 34 nation alliance is their not to keep westren at bay its just their to keep Iran isolated(No disrespect to Iranian brothers) Its just politics they are doing

 

[araz]

Saudis can get TOT for any fighter plane they want. Cost and being economical is not an issue for RSAF. USA deals with Saudis differently than it deals with Pakistan.
RSAF can load an F-15 with double payload and still maintain a good range compared to a JF-17.

JF-17 would have made an impact if they required a few high end fighters and hundreds of light fighters.



RSAF always had/has an option for single engine fighter with low operational cost, and it didnt go for it.

I am not sure if a single engine light fighter fits RSAF "demand".

RSAF will not face sanction any way in war. Its armed to the teeth to fight Iran.



If operational cost was such an issue, RSAF wouldnt have gone for EFT batches rather a single engine light fighter to support F-15's.

Cost is fast becoming an issue for all including the House of Saud. That and assured availability of a weapons package are cogent reasons for a sale. There are other possible tangents that I would not want to go into as they are purely conjectural.
However the fact remins that the JFT has the potential to house the EJ200 series engine and a twin seater could fill in the role of a trainer and a work horse. I have been harping on ad nauseum that we need to wait and let a clearer picture emerge to see what is going on behind the scene. I would say that as the statement has come out of their air chief it must have some merit.
A

 

[Signalian]

Cost is fast becoming an issue for all including the House of Saud. That and assured availability of a weapons package are cogent reasons for a sale. There are other possible tangents that I would not want to go into as they are purely conjectural.
However the fact remins that the JFT has the potential to house the EJ200 series engine and a twin seater could fill in the role of a trainer and a work horse. I have been harping on ad nauseum that we need to wait and let a clearer picture emerge to see what is going on behind the scene. I would say that as the statement has come out of their air chief it must have some merit.
A

Saudi Arabia never said before that it will buy big numbers or any numbers of the JF-17, they were just expressing interest for the last 7 years, now it is in some advanced Study phase (feasibility), otherwise why would they say bluntly that they will purchase a hefty number of the fighter plane..? Can anyone come up with a logical and acceptable reason.. the same for Qatar, Bahrein and Kuwait..


EAF has to deal with the new Usraeli F-35 threat for now, so they are concentrating on very high end fighters..The JF-17 Blk 3 with all its goodies and mostly BVR capabilities will be on the table too very soon.. since they also want production and JV.. All in all, not less than 400 will be sold and co-produced with the Arab coalition alone..

I dont reckon cost could be a factor, but with Trump coming in power, un-availability of US weapons for Gulf armies might become a factor for KSA turning towards JF-17.

 

[The SC]

I dont reckon cost could be a factor, but with Trump coming in power, un-availability of US weapons for Gulf armies might become a factor for KSA turning towards JF-17.

It needs it to replace both the F-5 that it has retired (around 115) and probably the aging Tornado too, mostly for its land forces support both close and far (BVR capability)..

 

[DJ_Viper]

Cost is fast becoming an issue for all including the House of Saud. That and assured availability of a weapons package are cogent reasons for a sale. There are other possible tangents that I would not want to go into as they are purely conjectural.
However the fact remins that the JFT has the potential to house the EJ200 series engine and a twin seater could fill in the role of a trainer and a work horse. I have been harping on ad nauseum that we need to wait and let a clearer picture emerge to see what is going on behind the scene. I would say that as the statement has come out of their air chief it must have some merit.

I have a different opinion on this. I think the Saudi's may not end up using the EJ or any Western engine or system, (may be just the Western BVR's but with the option to mount the Chinese BVR too, so to keep other options).

You are correct when you say that the cost has become an issue. The Saudis have been losing billions in their budget for the past few years due to Oil sales being so down. In fact, the US has also told them that we don't want your oil (Trump's one of the first few statements as the President-Elect). The US just found one of the largest oil reservoirs in central Texas just a few days ago. So the US now wants to just grow the US and focus on getting our own economy, and to remain the top 1 economy. Both, China, India, and other trade relationships will have to suffer a little (the right thing to do to promote "bring jobs back to America"), as we want our country to manufacture like before, have jobs here, etc, etc.

So with this changing dynamics and the US pretty much leaving Saudi oil all together, what that means is also leaving that strategic relationship too, to majority of the degree. So in this situation, the Saudis may be looking at diversifying their military as their military is 85% US weapons focused and 15% European (still has lots of influence from the US). So you may see them buying the JFT with majority Chinese weapons to diversify their platforms. They may ask for customization to the cockpit, so the inside look and feel becomes more EFT/F-15 kind (to keep a similar cockpit that their pilots are used to).

 

[The SC]

The Middle East is the most strategic place on Earth, The US is begging to stay there, and reserves or no reserves The US also has to maintain the biggest strategic oil reserve of the world.. The drop in prices just came after the US Shale oil was to get a share of the market, but the lower prices made it unfeasible and almost killed that threat..So If the US does not want middle eastern Oil , it can be replaced by other big consumers who can't have enough, like China for instance..
The GCC wants to buy the JF-17 for its tech, since it will give them a base on which they can work and eventually make their own design and national fighter planes.. on top of replacing their retired and near retirement fighter airplanes..
Also keep in mind that when GCC buys weapons it makes sure it has spare parts for at least the next 20 years, that is why they pay almost double the price of the fighter and they get ToT too. who would have thought that KSA is making parts and some electronic components of its F-15s at home? And will upgrade all its F-15s to the SA standard at home too..After all no President in the US can stop arms deals with the GCC, the US is the leader of capitalism and as long as the GCC states pay very good money, there is no obstacle to procure what they need for their armed forces..
Diversification of suppliers is a wise business practice...Hence the JF-17..
If cost was an obstacle, how can you justify the 32 billion dollars that just Qatar and Kuwait alone are injecting in the US economy for 112 fighter planes.. this deal alone will keep the F-18 and F-15 production lines going beyond 2024 and will preserve many American jobs that would have been lost otherwise.. this is just one deal, add so many other very expensive deals already signed for the navies and armies and others in negotiations phase.. The Huge defense corporations of the US and UK just love the GCC, and when you have this kind of love from the heart of the engine of a nation's economy you do not bother with small political details, these corporations, apart from being octopuses of the country's R&D and the economy, they provide jobs directly for hundreds of thousands of scientists and elite graduates, and indirectly to millions of American workers through their networks of suppliers..It is a Win /Win situation mutually beneficial for both the US and the GCC
Hope you got a clearer picture of what is involved beyond the media hypes about Oil, Trump, politics and what have you..

 

[imadul]

.


My Brother,

Pak is a Civilisational State. One of the Fountainheads of the Ancient World. Your great country has the Momentum of Life within and with it. Hence, you keep surviving against all odds. It is all in your Geometery.


However, as a Friend, I would like to say...enough of this surviving businness against all adversities... now it is time for Thriving against all odds!

I just hope your people just see and accept who they are from within and drop all these fake ideas of belonging to ideas or identities that are plain wrong.

Let us all wait for JF block3 and beyond...then cometh the Next Generation Fighter... built in Pak for Pak. Then cometh the SSN/SSBNs built in Pak for Pak.

Then cometh the SLV and locally built assets for betterment of Pak peoples. Time to do Outstanding things, my Pak Friends!


Long live this Great Land of Dancing Horse!


.

I know what you are pointing to; but I will respectfully disagree to some extent. There is great wisdom in mystic sayings.
Our Messenger said 1428 years before, "Even go to China to get knowledge if you have to". Obviously He was not asking to go to China for religious knowledge.

Our Mystic Poet Iqbal (1877 - 1938) said, "Dreaming Chinese started standing up from slumber; Streams of Himalaya have begun to overflowing".

So we do listen to ideas where there is profound wisdom and Pak-China friendship is a living legendary myth despite diametrically divergent ideologies, which is quiet unprecedented in the modern history and these relationships will reach to even higher pinnacles..

Other point is Pakistan is still a young country and it takes some time for a young nation to mature up.
Your sentiments ,however, are praiseworthy.

 

[Signalian]

It needs it to replace both the F-5 that it has retired (around 115) and probably the aging Tornado too, mostly for its land forces support both close and far (BVR capability)..

Replacement of F-5 can be covered by procurement of 84 F-15 or even 72 more EF or both. Already some F-5 squadrons are transitioning to EF from the first 72 order.

Tornado upgrades started in 2010-11, they wont be retired soon.

 

[SQ8]

I know what you are pointing to; but I will respectfully disagree to some extent. There is great wisdom in mystic sayings.
Our Messenger said 1428 years before, "Even go to China to get knowledge if you have to". Obviously He was not asking to go to China for religious knowledge.

Our Mystic Poet Iqbal (1877 - 1938) said, "Dreaming Chinese started standing up from slumber; Streams of Himalaya have begun to overflowing".

So we do listen to ideas where there is profound wisdom and Pak-China friendship is a living legendary myth despite diametrically divergent ideologies, which is quiet unprecedented in the modern history and these relationships will reach to even higher pinnacles..

Other point is Pakistan is still a young country and it takes some time for a young nation to mature up.
Your sentiments ,however, are praiseworthy.

He was never talking specifically about China but rather the extent to which one must go to acquire knowledge.
China was the most distant known civilisation at the time.

 

[The SC]

Replacement of F-5 can be covered by procurement of 84 F-15 or even 72 more EF or both. Already some F-5 squadrons are transitioning to EF from the first 72 order.

Tornado upgrades started in 2010-11, they wont be retired soon.

Neither the F-15 nor the EF are ground support fighters, one is an air superiority fighter while the second is a multirole fighter, they want a dedicated ground support fighter with other abilities not like EF with air defense and other air roles as principal abilities and ground support as an optional ability, the same goes for the F-15s..
The Tornado didn't perform very well during the Gulf war, it suffered the most losses among all the coalition ground support fighters, and there are persistent rumors that they want to replace it..

 

[Fenrir]

Neither the F-15 nor the EF are ground support fighters, one is an air superiority fighter while the second is a multirole fighter, they want a dedicated ground support fighter with other abilities

Not exactly. The F-15S is a variant of the F-15E, which is the strike variant of the F-15 Air Superiority Fighter.

Cruise missiles on an air superiority fighter? SDB too? It's a strike platform.

They retain their air-interdiction role, but are geared towards ground support. The Saudis are also interested in the F-15SA, which features modernized equipment versus the F-15S.

The F-15E, like the F-15s and SA retains its air-interdiction role but was build from the ground up as a strike platform.

The Royal Saudi Air Force also operates C/D models of the air superiority variety.

 

[The SC]

Not exactly. The F-15S is a variant of the F-15E, which is the strike variant of the F-15 Air Superiority Fighter.

Cruise missiles on an air superiority fighter? SDB too? It's a strike platform.

They retain their air-interdiction role, but are geared towards ground support. The Saudis are also interested in the F-15SA, which features modernized equipment versus the F-15S.

The F-15E, like the F-15s and SA retains its air-interdiction role but was build from the ground up as a strike platform.

The Royal Saudi Air Force also operates C/D models of the air superiority variety.

It is a deep strike platform not a ground support platform, the SU-24 and the A-10 thunderbolt are dedicated ground support platforms.. most fighters can do ground strike and naval strike and air to air combat , but we are talking about a ground troops support platform, if the JF-17 is used in that role it will free the other more potent and powerful platforms to perform other important missions..
KSA is getting its F-15SA in 2017 through 2020 and will upgrade all its F-15 S to SA locally..