SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[Trango Towers]

The problem is project AZM is still a very long ways off from being operational ... the JF-17 Block III is a very good 4.5 generation fighter but compared to a 5th generation fighter like the FC-31, it is not enough. A FC-31 or J-35 purchase would allow the PAF to achieve 5th generation capability all the way till AZM goes into service. There is only so much the PAF can squeeze out of a 4th generation design.

Well. We can say what we like. PaF is still using f7pg and mirages and upgrades have made them very competent and potent weapons systems. History shows the PAF doesn't jump into purchases and the Southern unfriendly neighbour has a very slow procurement process. By the time they make a decision project azm will be operational

 

[The Accountant]

Translation:
If they dont want FC-31, fine. But at least redesign the intakes of JF-17 above or below the wings so that it looks aestheticaly better.

Its a war plane designed as per aerodynamic and performance requirements and not an actress or model designed on asthetics

 

[Readerdefence]

Hi more knowledgeable members will agreed to my post once j35/31 or whatever it’s name will Start landing on Chinese ACC which will happen one way or the other soon PAF will be the next customer for these planes AZM long way to go & in coming years in near future Indians will be the next customer for F35 & can be for their upcoming ACC B version of F35
thank you

 

[Akh1112]

Does anyone know if a HAVE GLASS like coating could reduce RCS of JF-17? Maybe even External stealth weapon pods could reduce it further.

@Figaro


For reference

Block 60's Haveglass:

“One of the things they did on the Block 60s — was they did a coating on the Block 60 that’s got the texture of about 40 grit sandpaper — 60 grit sandpaper. It’s very, very rough.

It was designed for RCS (Radar Cross Section) reduction. Since then for the Block 70.

U.S. Air Force F-16C Receives New “Have Glass V” Paint Scheme - Fighter Jets World

A U.S. Air Force F-16 from the 149th Fighter Wing, Texas Air National Guard with a new, darker singl

fighterjetsworld.com

Indeed, all “Vipers” are covered with RAM (Radar Absorbent Material) made of microscopic metal grains that can degrade the radar signature of the aircraft.

Course, but we also have to remember the JF-17 is primarily aluminium. We should be working on upping the composite content and then look to a RAM coating if need be (not necessarily needed, look at other LO aircraft, rafale, shornet etc.), however, we would need to develop it ourselves which is something we dont have the capability to do nor does it make sense to do so when the world is moving towards baked in fibre mats for stealth, so this wouldn't even be useful for azm eitherl.

 

[CrazyZ]

Does anyone know if a HAVE GLASS like coating could reduce RCS of JF-17? Maybe even External stealth weapon pods could reduce it further.

@Figaro


For reference

Block 60's Haveglass:

“One of the things they did on the Block 60s — was they did a coating on the Block 60 that’s got the texture of about 40 grit sandpaper — 60 grit sandpaper. It’s very, very rough.

It was designed for RCS (Radar Cross Section) reduction. Since then for the Block 70.

U.S. Air Force F-16C Receives New “Have Glass V” Paint Scheme - Fighter Jets World

A U.S. Air Force F-16 from the 149th Fighter Wing, Texas Air National Guard with a new, darker singl

fighterjetsworld.com

Indeed, all “Vipers” are covered with RAM (Radar Absorbent Material) made of microscopic metal grains that can degrade the radar signature of the aircraft.

RCS of JF-17 B3 is classified but it is safe to assume that every new version will have lower RCS than previous versions.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Course, but we also have to remember the JF-17 is primarily aluminium. We should be working on upping the composite content and then look to a RAM coating if need be (not necessarily needed, look at other LO aircraft, rafale, shornet etc.), however, we would need to develop it ourselves which is something we dont have the capability to do nor does it make sense to do so when the world is moving towards baked in fibre mats for stealth, so this wouldn't even be useful for azm eitherl.

JF-17 will be in service for many years, if this solution was not useful the US air national guard would not use it to upgrade their capabilities. I'm sure the Chinese could put something together that Pakistan can locally produce.

Does aluminum make this solution unworkable or something? I dont see JF-17 being a lot more composite after Block 3.

 

[Philip the Arab]

RCS of JF-17 B3 is classified but it is safe to assume that every new version will have lower RCS than previous versions.

Most likely yes, was just thinking of making it even more low rcs matching the Eurofighters.

 

[Figaro]

Does anyone know if a HAVE GLASS like coating could reduce RCS of JF-17? Maybe even External stealth weapon pods could reduce it further.

@Figaro


For reference

Block 60's Haveglass:

“One of the things they did on the Block 60s — was they did a coating on the Block 60 that’s got the texture of about 40 grit sandpaper — 60 grit sandpaper. It’s very, very rough.

It was designed for RCS (Radar Cross Section) reduction. Since then for the Block 70.

U.S. Air Force F-16C Receives New “Have Glass V” Paint Scheme - Fighter Jets World

A U.S. Air Force F-16 from the 149th Fighter Wing, Texas Air National Guard with a new, darker singl

fighterjetsworld.com

Indeed, all “Vipers” are covered with RAM (Radar Absorbent Material) made of microscopic metal grains that can degrade the radar signature of the aircraft.

Most of the RCS given off I believe is from the shaping itself. So any external payload will kill its RCS, irregardless of even shaping or RAM. The Rafale claims to achieve a 1 m^2 RCS in a very clean state, but when it carries its weapons load (as it would in combat), this instantly spikes up. So to summarize, yes the JF-17 can adopt those features to possibly lower RCS but it would not be enough to make any meaningful decreases in detection range.

Its a war plane designed as per aerodynamic and performance requirements and not an actress or model designed on asthetics

If we are going to go off looks, then the F-35 is easily the worst looking fifth generation fighter lol.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Most of the RCS given off I believe is from the shaping itself. So any external payload will kill its RCS, irregardless of even shaping or RAM. The Rafale claims to achieve a 1 m^2 RCS in a very clean state, but when it carries its weapons load (as it would in combat), this instantly spikes up. So to summarize, yes the JF-17 can adopt those features to possibly lower RCS but it would not be enough to make any meaningful decreases in detection range.

If we are going to go off looks, then the F-35 is easily the worst looking fifth generation fighter lol.

It might be wiser to apply coatings to ALCMs like Ra'ad. The ALCM itself is a LO-design, but the coating could be a good 'assurance' factor, especially for long-range attacks (300-600 km).

 

[PDF]

Its a war plane designed as per aerodynamic and performance requirements and not an actress or model designed on asthetics

Actually, in engineering, aesthetic and appearance is taken into account but it depends on the requirements. Compromises can be made when some factors need domination so some things can be ignored.

 

[The Accountant]

Actually, in engineering, aesthetic and appearance is taken into account but it depends on the requirements. Compromises can be made when some factors need domination so some things can be ignored.

Agreed but position of intake is based on the required performance parameters ... For car asthetics are highly important but for a fighter aircraft performance is priority.

 

[The Eagle]

The next thing for thread derailment is that, offenders will be banned permanent from topic. Enough reminders & soft warnings issued. One banned.

Regards,

 

[MastanKhan]

Course, but we also have to remember the JF-17 is primarily aluminium. We should be working on upping the composite content and then look to a RAM coating if need be (not necessarily needed, look at other LO aircraft, rafale, shornet etc.), however, we would need to develop it ourselves which is something we dont have the capability to do nor does it make sense to do so when the world is moving towards baked in fibre mats for stealth, so this wouldn't even be useful for azm eitherl.

Hi,

Aluminum is still the best low cost answer to any flying machine.

Composites are extremely expensive and defects in them are not as noticeable as in the aluminum.

There is a recently built Boeing aircraft that has been grounded due to failure in the composities materials integrity.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

I'm afraid J-35/FC-31 may yet be the best stopgap solution for PAF... AZM will have to leapfrog to next-gen! At this pace they'll probably hit 5th gen possibly in a decade but it is not needed... especially when 6th gen is already being tested. One must keep their priorities straight and in this case a solution off the shelf is the right answer... all the while next generation is researched.

 

[MastanKhan]

It might be wiser to apply coatings to ALCMs like Ra'ad. The ALCM itself is a LO-design, but the coating could be a good 'assurance' factor, especially for long-range attacks (300-600 km).

Hi,

The more you dig deeper into it---the more surprises you may find in the fighter aircraft skin material---. More of it to be aluminum.

Years ago I posted a picture of an F22---going re-surfacing---its skin was being chiselled away to remove the putty covering the skin and you could see the rivets in the aluminum skin attached to the frame.

That putty that covered the F22 aircraft skin was made from a material that made the aircraft invisible and it was not the composite materials that did it as much---.

I personally thinks that the americans have tried to confuse their enemies by diverting them to composite materials while still using aluminum skin and radar absorbing putty material covering the skin for ultimate stealth projection---.

The Boeing 787 I believe has been ground due to the failure of composites---.

What do you think @Bilal Khan (Quwa)