Saarc satellite move puts Bangladesh in a dilemma

[dray]

Ground stations have little to do with actual coms satellite operation since a geo bird is fixed in the sky, the ground antenna does not even need to track it. Minimal satellite orbit maintenance. It will be some chaps eating rosagollas and chai all day and another shift for night keeping an eye on the electronics arrays + security provision+cleaning etc. Maybe 1 or 2 techs at most....and I wonder if they will even be Bangladeshi.

GPS guidance is...??? Do you mean GPS augmentation? If so provide the link that Bangladesh approached the US Air Force and US DoD for L-Band frequency codes (for referencing). Any US contractor involved like Raytheon was for India's GAGAN? Or Bangladesh has developed this all by itself? Did Bangladesh commission the relevant ionospheric study for its upper atmosphere so it can factor in the correct error correction algorithms? Or is India providing you this regional data, i.e piggy backing on the GAGAN and IRNSS atmospheric studies?

Something seems off about "GPS guidance" revolving around a standard comms satellite for a country that has never operated a satellite before. Are you getting this from another defence board?

As for the weather forecasting, whats the sensor suite that Bangabandhu-1 is carrying? As far I can see I don't see any info on this anywhere....neither do I see anything in the concept art pictures.

That's 10 goals to @BDforever in one shot!! Where is @UKBengali ?

Bangladeshi satellite is communication satellite contracted to be built and launched by a foreign space agency. It is much bigger for Bangladesh's current and even future needs (satellites also have a fixed lifespan), they thought to sell/lease the transponders to make money, but with the tough competition around and now a 'free to use' SAARC satellite for the same tasks; Bangladeshi satellite's business potential looks bleak!

Besides, the cost they are incurring for the satellite is rather high, we could have done it for them at a much better price. We do have a reputation in this field.

 

[UKBengali]

@Rain Man : As has already been mentioned by @damiendehorn , this is more than just pure cost involved.

BD is a large country in world terms(150+ million population) and is interested in building up it's own indigenous capacity in space. Although the satellite is built by the Europeans, BD will gain invaluable experience in operating a satellite and I see future satellites having more and more domestic components.

 

[dray]

@Rain Man : As has already been mentioned by @damiendehorn , this is more than just pure cost involved.

BD is a large country in world terms(150+ million population) and is interested in building up it's own indigenous capacity in space. Although the satellite is built by the Europeans, BD will gain invaluable experience in operating a satellite and I see future satellites having more and more domestic components.

Getting a foreign space agency to built and launch a communication satellite for you is not exactly "Space program"! Besides, there is barely anything to operate in a geostationary satellite. Bangladesh had a business plan, but that seems to have bombed already!

 

[Species]

Getting a foreign space agency to built and launch a communication satellite for you is not exactly "Space program"!

You got to start somewhere, this is just a start. There are two more satellites to be launched and possibly they will be manufactured locally.

Besides, there is barely anything to operate in a geostationary satellite.

Yes, the satellite will just keep on rotating and we will be just sitting here watching it rotate, you West Bengalis never fail to amuse.

Bangladesh had a business plan, but that seems to have bombed already!

Business plan - yes, our telecommunications sector is booming which require our won satellite in the space. We also need better weather forecasting abilities to minimize our losses from naturtal disasters.

 

[damiendehorn]

Getting a foreign space agency to built and launch a communication satellite for you is not exactly "Space program"! Besides, there is barely anything to operate in a geostationary satellite. Bangladesh had a business plan, but that seems to have bombed already!

Again your showing your ignorance about anything related to Bangladesh (nothing new there). Bangladesh currently leases transponders on foreign satellites, including from india! By just transfering those service, BTRC will save in the long run, reduce depedence on india and gain experience.

saarc satellite has a smaller footprint compared to the BTRCs satellite, and 16 c band transponders will cover regions outside saarc.

 

[Nabil365]

That's 10 goals to @BDforever in one shot!! Where is @UKBengali ?

Bangladeshi satellite is communication satellite contracted to be built and launched by a foreign space agency. It is much bigger for Bangladesh's current and even future needs (satellites also have a fixed lifespan), they thought to sell/lease the transponders to make money, but with the tough competition around and now a 'free to use' SAARC satellite for the same tasks; Bangladeshi satellite's business potential looks bleak!

Besides, the cost they are incurring for the satellite is rather high, we could have done it for them at a much better price. We do have a reputation in this field.

The bangabandhu satellite will certainly play a vital role to raise national pride which you West Bengalis will never understand.

 

[dray]

Again your showing your ignorance about anything related to Bangladesh (nothing new there). Bangladesh currently leases transponders on foreign satellites, including from india! By just transfering those service, BTRC will save in the long run, reduce depedence on india and gain experience.

saarc satellite has a smaller footprint compared to the BTRCs satellite, and 16 c band transponders will cover regions outside saarc.

I am not opposing a Bangladeshi satellite, why should I? But I think the cost of Tk 2967 crore for one satellite is a bit too high, have you done a comparative cost-benefit analysis here? Like what Bangladesh is spending annually on leased satellite transponders, minus the free usage of the upcoming SAARC satellite if Bangladesh chose to use it, with the cost of having its own satellite + cost of interest on investment + cost of operation + cost of depreciation?

You got to start somewhere, this is just a start. There are two more satellites to be launched and possibly they will be manufactured locally.

But you gained zero experience in satellite building and launch with the current one.

Yes, the satellite will just keep on rotating and we will be just sitting here watching it rotate, you West Bengalis never fail to amuse.

It's not a bus, once put in a geostationary orbit correctly, it just rotates, and geostationary satellites requires very little adjustments to keep it in its orbit.

Business plan - yes, our telecommunications sector is booming which require our won satellite in the space. We also need better weather forecasting abilities to minimize our losses from naturtal disasters.

Credible weather forecasting abilities need much more than a satellite, Bangladesh is currently using Indian weather forecasting systems, you are not making your own system anytime soon.

The bangabandhu satellite will certainly play a vital role to raise national pride which you West Bengalis will never understand.

Hmmm.....national pride....that's what I guessed! Otherwise it is not a sound business decision.

 

[damiendehorn]

I am not opposing a Bangladeshi satellite, why should I? But I think the cost of Tk 2967 crore for one satellite is a bit too high, have you done a comparative cost-benefit analysis here? Like what Bangladesh is spending annually on leased satellite transponders, minus the free usage of the upcoming SAARC satellite if Bangladesh chose to use it, with the cost of having its own satellite + cost of interest on investment + cost of operation + cost of depreciation?

So you think BTRC went for the Thales system without doing any PM/CBA/or Risk Analysis? The total cost is not just the satellite, its a package including base stations, training, management support etc...have a proper look through the Thales previous launch customers and see what they paid.

The MAIN thing is we want our own satellite, agreeing to the saarc project will still keep us reliant on india, BTRC wants to take control of this process.

ICT is going to be one of our next target export growth areas over the next few decades, the satellite is just a small part of the overal plan. We won't rely on others, specially india.

End of the day its our money, our choice and its the right choice in the long run

Hmmm.....national pride....that's what I guessed! Otherwise it is not a sound business decision.

So you think building one of the largest data centres, setting up ICT hubs and satellite network is for national pride? Your really clueless about whats happening in Bangladesh........but thats OK.

 

[Nilgiri]

That's 10 goals to @BDforever in one shot!! Where is @UKBengali ?

Bangladeshi satellite is communication satellite contracted to be built and launched by a foreign space agency. It is much bigger for Bangladesh's current and even future needs (satellites also have a fixed lifespan), they thought to sell/lease the transponders to make money, but with the tough competition around and now a 'free to use' SAARC satellite for the same tasks; Bangladeshi satellite's business potential looks bleak!

Besides, the cost they are incurring for the satellite is rather high, we could have done it for them at a much better price. We do have a reputation in this field.

I just dont think people should spout things without any official neutral source to back it up, but relying on some passing thing they heard maybe on some other defence board.

Because I do enjoy dousing the hot claims with lots of water

As for why they go with this rather than SAARC satellite which is cheaper (well free)...they want to try standing up on their own legs or something. Cmon remember that whole period in India before the 90s where importing expensive firangi maal was the biggest status symbol as a rebellion towards local availability (of course if you had the coin). Bangladesh is at similar stage now for various technologies. As though the ground stations they will be "operating" will be doing something completely different when the transmitter is Coms Satellite A instead of Coms Satellite B.

That and the SAARC satellite got announced kinda late, I think Bangladesh had already commited to Bangabandhu-1 by then....and since they wont even be fully using up this coms bird for many years to come....theres not much point in actively using SAARC satellite resources.....SL, Nepal, Bhutan etc will actually have a use for it and India can take whatevers left since we always have a massive demand for it.

 

[damiendehorn]

That and the SAARC satellite got announced kinda late, I think Bangladesh had already commited to Bangabandhu-1 by then....and since they wont even be fully using up this coms bird for many years to come....theres not much point in actively using SAARC satellite resources.....SL, Nepal, Bhutan etc will actually have a use for it and India can take whatevers left since we always have a massive demand for it.

Wrong info or just lying? the contract with Thales was signed on November 2015 way after the saarc satellite offer was made on June 2014. Still not getting the point? Bangladesh is not interested in the saarc project......The Bangabandhu-1 is part of the BTRC and governments ICT plans, creating the core infrastructure for ICT services and exports.

Bangabandhu-1 has a far higher capacity then the proposed saarc sat and a bigger footprint, plus we aim to have Bangabandhu-2 and Bangabandhu-3 in the future. Part of a long term plan, why put all that in the hands of a foreign untrustworthy power?

 

[Nilgiri]

Wrong info or just lying? the contract with Thales was signed on November 2015 way after the saarc satellite offer was made on June 2014. Still not getting the point? Bangladesh is not interested in the saarc project......The Bangabandhu-1 is part of the BTRC and governments ICT plans, creating the core infrastructure for ICT services and exports.

Bangabandhu-1 has a far higher capacity then the proposed saarc sat and a bigger footprint, plus we aim to have Bangabandhu-2 and Bangabandhu-3 in the future. Part of a long term plan, why put all that in the hands of a foreign untrustworthy power?

Well Bangladesh was talking about a satellite for a very long time before the SAARC satellite was announced. Sorry if the actual contract date or whatever was different from what I may have implied....but it was on the anvil concetually for much longer before that and thats what I meant by commitment.

ICT exports? Yah ok, I guess since you cant use the capacity all by yourself for many years to come. Has anyone actually signed on to lease any of the transponders outside of Bangladesh yet...or is this all pie in the sky they will eventually come kind of thing? You can forget about smaller SAARC countries since they will be getting their needs met free from the Saarc satellite esp now that Bangladesh wont be using anything there. So maybe India itself and Indonesia may be interested at some point?

 

[damiendehorn]

Well Bangladesh was talking about a satellite for a very long time before the SAARC satellite was announced. Sorry if the actual contract date or whatever was different from what I may have implied....but it was on the anvil concetually for much longer before that and thats what I meant by commitment.

ICT exports? Yah ok, I guess since you cant use the capacity all by yourself for many years to come. Has anyone actually signed on to lease any of the transponders outside of Bangladesh yet...or is this all pie in the sky they will eventually come kind of thing? You can forget about smaller SAARC countries since they will be getting their needs met free from the Saarc satellite esp now that Bangladesh wont be using anything there. So maybe India itself and Indonesia may be interested at some point?

Stop giving out false info (or just lying). As has been stated even by the BTRC, the Bangabandhu-1 primary objective is to save foreign exchange (i.e. using indian transponders), allow DTH services, kick start ICT industry etc Current services will take over 2/3rd of the capacity of this bird and will max out by 2024, hence the need for the higher capacity Bangabandhu-2 before the 15 year life span (2032).

Sorry to burst your bubble!

Bhutan and Nepal won't ever a real target market, giving them free access wont make much difference (unless india offers free transponders to every African, Central Asian, South East Asian customers) The 26 Ku bands are for Bangladesh usage mainly, the 14 C Band covers a much bigger region (East coast of Africa to South East Asia). Does the 12 Ku band of the saarc cover those region?

POP hear that? Thats your bubble bursting again!

 

[Nilgiri]

Stop giving out false info (or just lying). As has been stated even by the BTRC, the Bangabandhu-1 primary objective is to save foreign exchange (i.e. using indian transponders), allow DTH services, kick start ICT industry etc Current services will take over 2/3rd of the capacity of this bird and will max out by 2024, hence the need for the higher capacity Bangabandhu-2 before the 15 year life span (2032).

Sorry to burst your bubble!

Bhutan and Nepal won't ever a real target market, giving them free access wont make much difference (unless india offers free transponders to every African, Central Asian, South East Asian customers) The 26 Ku bands are for Bangladesh usage mainly, the 14 C Band covers a much bigger region (East coast of Africa to South East Asia). Does the 12 Ku band of the saarc cover those region?

POP hear that? Thats your bubble bursting again!

Like I asked, anyone sign up for transponders yet? Or its a they will come eventually philosophy?

And wheres your source that current requirements will take over 2/3rd of the B-1 capacity? You are saying 100% of the 26 Ku Bands will be used by Bangladesh (I doubt that but lets see the source)? How many and what type of transponders was Bangladesh renting before?

Bangladesh local requirements are quite puny considering its population and its addiction to Indian TV. Its actually quite surprising this project wasn't done way back in the 90s....since its simply buying an off shelf satellite and getting someone else to launch it and probably hand hold you in operational matters that mean something.

Anyways good luck with your efforts. Bangladesh in space!

 

[damiendehorn]

Like I asked, anyone sign up for transponders yet? Or its a they will come eventually philosophy?

And wheres your source that current requirements will take over 2/3rd of the B-1 capacity? You are saying 100% of the 26 Ku Bands will be used by Bangladesh (I doubt that but lets see the source)? How many and what type of transponders was Bangladesh renting before?

Bangladesh local requirements are quite puny considering its population and its addiction to Indian TV. Its actually quite surprising this project wasn't done way back in the 90s....since its simply buying an off shelf satellite and getting someone else to launch it and probably hand hold you in operational matters that mean something.

Anyways good luck with your efforts. Bangladesh in space!

So now you want to sell band before you have a bird in spot? WOW, your one heck of a salesman, your able to get buyers even before you have a product!

1. Its 26 Ku transponders, not 26 Ku bands (26 transponders are in the Ku band range and 16 are in the C band range). Do you know much about this topic?
2. BTRC is the regulatory/governing body, its the private companies that lease capacity.
3. A large chunk of the capacity will be used by the government (medical, education, etc), NGOs and the Military (estimate to be 18%-20% 2015).
4. Bangladesh has over 133 million mobile users, a large overseas NRBs population and guest workers worldwide. this sector is expected to take the bulk of band and with the intro of 3G/4G their requirements are going up exponentially.
5. The intro of HD DTH market and spectrum is about to launch when the bird goes up. Again a large sector with 25-26 terrestrial tv channels now.....and large local players eyeing the prospects.
7. BTRC underestimated demand, according to the reports. Hence the talk of for Bangabandhu-2, as Bangabandhu-1 is based on the spacebus B1 and was already under construction by the time of the meeting.
8. If you want details of band usage call BTRC..they don't publish the data or call all the users to agregate that info. The BTRC estimate upto 2/3rd of the Ku will be taken locally by 2018 (depending on BTRC tarif) by the time the bird goes up in 16 December 2017 or early 2018 if the schedule slips.

Well non of that maters as what ever I say wont make any difference. I crux of the mater is saarc satellite has only 12 Ku transponders which has to be shared by all the users (meaning only 4-5 alloted to Bangladesh). It can in no way meet the demand and so BTRC says thanks but we will go our own path.

 

[Nilgiri]

So now you want to sell band before you have a bird in spot? WOW, your one heck of a salesman, your able to get buyers even before you have a product!

1. Its 26 Ku transponders, not 26 Ku bands (26 transponders are in the Ku band range and 16 are in the C band range). Do you know much about this topic?
2. BTRC is the regulatory/governing body, its the private companies that lease capacity.
3. A large chunk of the capacity will be used by the government (medical, education, etc), NGOs and the Military (estimate to be 18%-20% 2015).
4. Bangladesh has over 133 million mobile users, a large overseas NRBs population and guest workers worldwide. this sector is expected to take the bulk of band and with the intro of 3G/4G their requirements are going up exponentially.
5. The intro of HD DTH market and spectrum is about to launch when the bird goes up. Again a large sector with 25-26 terrestrial tv channels now.....and large local players eyeing the prospects.
7. BTRC underestimated demand, according to the reports. Hence the talk of for Bangabandhu-2, as Bangabandhu-1 is based on the spacebus B1 and was already under construction by the time of the meeting.
8. If you want details of band usage call BTRC..they don't publish the data or call all the users to agregate that info. The BTRC estimate upto 2/3rd of the Ku will be taken locally by 2018 (depending on BTRC tarif) by the time the bird goes up in 16 December 2017 or early 2018 if the schedule slips.

Well non of that maters as what ever I say wont make any difference. I crux of the mater is saarc satellite has only 12 Ku transponders which has to be shared by all the users (meaning only 4-5 alloted to Bangladesh). It can in no way meet the demand and so BTRC says thanks but we will go our own path.

OK thanks for the info. Yes i meant transponders obv, not bands. It was a typo. I worked in remote sensing industry for a couple years, but not specifically comms satellite.

Do you have a link where the BTRC gave the estimate of 2/3 of Ku transponder usage? (So 16 with 8 left over for time being)

And yes there are plenty of instances where comms birds have been fully subscribed for transponder usage from multiple clients well before launch. It is quite standard in well developed markets, so I was wondering if anyone has already approached Bangladesh with some interest in this.