SA80 Equipped to Fight

[Vergennes]

@Abingdonboy @Frogman @Blue Marlin @waz @mike2000 is back @Providence @Pakistani Exile @PARIKRAMA @Nilgiri @Kaptaan @Taygibay @Penguin



There was a flurry of news this week about the MoD considering extending the service of the SA80, with a handful of images reportedly showing prototypes of the A3 model.


The images were released by the MoD as part of DVD2016 coverage, specifically on the Virtus contract for soldier equipment.

What this flurry of news seemed to have missed is the MoD letting a £2.7 million contract to Heckler and Koch GMBH & Co for work on the SA80A2.

The Dismounted Close Combat Programme team, part of the UK Ministry of Defence, intends to place a contract for the Equipped to Fight Improvement (EFI) programme for the modification of 5 000 SA80 weapons with Heckler & Koch GMBH & Co for work to be completed by March 2017. The estimated contract value is 2 700 000 GBP. The contract will require the supplier to modify the existing SA80 A2 weapon by fitting a combination of new and modified components. Specific tolerances of materials are needed along with exact dimensions and surface finishes on the components to allow for interoperability with the existing system, particularly when managing the variable interface caused by differing rates of wear of existing components which are recycled as part of the programme. There are very high risks involved in managing the variable tolerances and manufacturing processes when combining new and existing weapon components.


A replacement for the much, and probably unfairly, maligned SA80 is usually the subject of much debate but despite France only recently selecting the HK416 to replace the FAMAS, I get the impression the SA80 is not going anywhere fast.

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2016/09/sa80-equipped-fight/

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@Abingdonboy
We need something like Equipped to Fight Improvement (EFI) programme on priority

 

[Vergennes]

@Abingdonboy
We need something like Equipped to Fight Improvement (EFI) programme on priority

Para wearing new VIRTUS load carriage equipment and Batlskin Cobra helmet aiming SA80A3 [© Bob Morrison]

Part of a feasibility study for the SA80A2 Mid Life Improvement project, which aims to prolong the in-service life of the UK Forces’ 5.56mm weapon beyond its 2025 OSD, the A3 prototype includes a number of modifications including:-.

Para wearing new VIRTUS load carriage equipment and Batlskin Cobra helmet holding SA80A3 [© Bob Morrison]

¤ a safety stud placed above the change lever on the trigger mechanism housing to ensure that this lever does not over-rotate,

¤ the Weaver rail on top of the upper receiver being taken off and a full length Picatinny rail fitted – this will allow day sight and night sight to be mounted in tandem,

¤ a new foregrip, or quadrail, as part of the new full-length rail which will be attached slightly differently to the current one allowing the barrel to be more free-floating than at present to improve accuracy and consistency,

¤ redesign of the A3 upper receiver for improved reliability and maintainability over the current A2 variant,

¤ and colour change to Matt Earth for better compatibility with MTP camouflage uniforms.

At this stage the A3 model, of which ten prototypes have been produced, is a feasibility study but as much of the A2 stocks have seen extensive combat service in Iraq &/or Afghanistan since introduction in late 2001 they deserve a speedy upgrade.

SA80A3 prototype fitted with inline sights and under-barrel grenade launcher [© Bob Morrison]

http://www.combatandsurvival.com/uk-news/7908-new-sa80a3-assault-rifle-revealed-dvd16

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Abingdonboy @Frogman @Blue Marlin @waz @mike2000 is back @Providence @Pakistani Exile @PARIKRAMA @Nilgiri @Kaptaan @Taygibay @Penguin



There was a flurry of news this week about the MoD considering extending the service of the SA80, with a handful of images reportedly showing prototypes of the A3 model.


The images were released by the MoD as part of DVD2016 coverage, specifically on the Virtus contract for soldier equipment.

What this flurry of news seemed to have missed is the MoD letting a £2.7 million contract to Heckler and Koch GMBH & Co for work on the SA80A2.

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The Dismounted Close Combat Programme team, part of the UK Ministry of Defence, intends to place a contract for the Equipped to Fight Improvement (EFI) programme for the modification of 5 000 SA80 weapons with Heckler & Koch GMBH & Co for work to be completed by March 2017. The estimated contract value is 2 700 000 GBP. The contract will require the supplier to modify the existing SA80 A2 weapon by fitting a combination of new and modified components. Specific tolerances of materials are needed along with exact dimensions and surface finishes on the components to allow for interoperability with the existing system, particularly when managing the variable interface caused by differing rates of wear of existing components which are recycled as part of the programme. There are very high risks involved in managing the variable tolerances and manufacturing processes when combining new and existing weapon components.


A replacement for the much, and probably unfairly, maligned SA80 is usually the subject of much debate but despite France only recently selecting the HK416 to replace the FAMAS, I get the impression the SA80 is not going anywhere fast.

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2016/09/sa80-equipped-fight/

Fired the SA-80 (in full auto) and the G36 during my time in the CCF at school. Granted it was the A2 and has none of these upgrades (new sights, polymer body, p-rails etc) but in my experience it was a cumbersome and awkward rifle.

@Abingdonboy
We need something like Equipped to Fight Improvement (EFI) programme on priority

Sadly brother the IA is light years from having this sort of mindset. The "warfighter" is the last consideration made by the top brass of the Indian military who have not engaged in a single conventional conflict in their entire careers, in contrast the Western militaries who have been continuously deployed in the past decade and more squarely put the needs of their foot soldiers at the forefront (a hard learned lesson it has to be said).

The senior leadership of the Indian army have a very outdated and regressive mindset, to them if the battle soldier has a rifle and some spare ammo he is probably ready to go to war.

 

[Nilgiri]

@Abingdonboy @Frogman @Blue Marlin @waz @mike2000 is back @Providence @Pakistani Exile @PARIKRAMA @Nilgiri @Kaptaan @Taygibay @Penguin



There was a flurry of news this week about the MoD considering extending the service of the SA80, with a handful of images reportedly showing prototypes of the A3 model.


The images were released by the MoD as part of DVD2016 coverage, specifically on the Virtus contract for soldier equipment.

What this flurry of news seemed to have missed is the MoD letting a £2.7 million contract to Heckler and Koch GMBH & Co for work on the SA80A2.

View attachment 333689
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View attachment 333693
View attachment 333695
View attachment 333696

The Dismounted Close Combat Programme team, part of the UK Ministry of Defence, intends to place a contract for the Equipped to Fight Improvement (EFI) programme for the modification of 5 000 SA80 weapons with Heckler & Koch GMBH & Co for work to be completed by March 2017. The estimated contract value is 2 700 000 GBP. The contract will require the supplier to modify the existing SA80 A2 weapon by fitting a combination of new and modified components. Specific tolerances of materials are needed along with exact dimensions and surface finishes on the components to allow for interoperability with the existing system, particularly when managing the variable interface caused by differing rates of wear of existing components which are recycled as part of the programme. There are very high risks involved in managing the variable tolerances and manufacturing processes when combining new and existing weapon components.


A replacement for the much, and probably unfairly, maligned SA80 is usually the subject of much debate but despite France only recently selecting the HK416 to replace the FAMAS, I get the impression the SA80 is not going anywhere fast.

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2016/09/sa80-equipped-fight/

I forget who actually designed/made the SA-80. Was it vickers?

So HK will be consultant to the new version or something?

I would have preferred them to use a delayed blowback action instead of gas for bullpup...too much potential fouling to deal with.... that can affect reliability in long sustained use in theatre I feel.

But too late for that now I guess....maybe HK has an ace up its sleeve for this.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I forget who actually designed/made the SA-80. Was it vickers?

So HK will be consultant to the new version or something?

I would have preferred them to use a delayed blowback action instead of gas for bullpup...too much potential fouling to deal with.... that can affect reliability in long sustained use in theatre I feel.

But too late for that now I guess....maybe HK has an ace up its sleeve for this.

The SA-80 actually has a very complex and convoluted history that can be traced all the way back to the 1940s. Today it is manufactured by BAE (as is the way with the British defence industry- BAE has through M&A and other means created a monopoly at home) but originally was tested/designed by a combination of small industrial companies and state owned ordinance factories.

Interestingly the SA-80A1 had serious design flaws and HK had been brought in almost 20 years ago to create the A2 standard so HK actually have extensive expertise with the SA-80 and it is only logical that the MOD contract them to create the A3.

 

[mike2000 is back]

The SA-80 actually has a very complex and convoluted history that can be traced all the way back to the 1940s. Today it is manufactured by BAE (as is the way with the British defence industry- BAE has through M&A and other means created a monopoly at home) but originally was tested/designed by a combination of small industrial companies and state owned ordinance factories.

Interestingly the SA-80A1 had serious design flaws and HK had been brought in almost 20 years ago to create the A2 standard so HK actually have extensive expertise with the SA-80 and it is only logical that the MOD contract them to create the A3.

Agree, sometimes I believe BAE has grown too big and powerful(only Lockheed Martin is bigger than them I believe) .They are virtually like a mini state in itself when it comes to military industry. Smaller players have little chance to compete with this giant, which I think is unfair. Our government should look into this monopoly they enjoy. Not denying the equipment they produce is world class and can hardly be matched by most Powers anywhere in the world. But the dominance they enjoy is just too much for comfort to be honest. It's stifling competition from smaller more vibrant companies.

 

[saumyasupratik]

The SA-80 actually has a very complex and convoluted history that can be traced all the way back to the 1940s. Today it is manufactured by BAE (as is the way with the British defence industry- BAE has through M&A and other means created a monopoly at home) but originally was tested/designed by a combination of small industrial companies and state owned ordinance factories.

Interestingly the SA-80A1 had serious design flaws and HK had been brought in almost 20 years ago to create the A2 standard so HK actually have extensive expertise with the SA-80 and it is only logical that the MOD contract them to create the A3.

There was no BAE back then.

85-88 - RSAF, Enfield
88-94 - RO Nottingham

Don't think so BAE land Systems which has inherited RO Nottingham has the tooling and equipment to manufacture the rifles again.

 

[Penguin]

In 1990, Heckler & Koch finalised over two decades of development with their revolutionary case-less weapon system and produces prototypes of the HK G11. In addition, the company produced prototypes of the HK G41 military rifle intended for the Bundeswehr. Due to the international political climate at that time (East and West Germany uniting and defense budget cuts) the company was unable to secure funded contracts from the German Government to support production of either weapon system and this resulted in the company becoming financially vulnerable. In the following year [1991], the Heckler & Koch company was sold to the British Aerospace's Royal Ordnance division.

As the result of a 1999 merger between British Aerospace and Marconi Electronic Systems, Heckler & Koch was then owned by BAE Systems and was contracted to refurbish the SA80 rifle for the British Army. This contract entailed a modification programme to the SA80 series of rifles to address a number of reliability issues with the SA80. Three years later, in 2002, BAE Systems restructured and sold Heckler & Koch to a group of private investors.

 

[mike2000 is back]

@Abingdonboy @Frogman @Blue Marlin @waz @mike2000 is back @Providence @Pakistani Exile @PARIKRAMA @Nilgiri @Kaptaan @Taygibay @Penguin



There was a flurry of news this week about the MoD considering extending the service of the SA80, with a handful of images reportedly showing prototypes of the A3 model.


The images were released by the MoD as part of DVD2016 coverage, specifically on the Virtus contract for soldier equipment.

What this flurry of news seemed to have missed is the MoD letting a £2.7 million contract to Heckler and Koch GMBH & Co for work on the SA80A2.

View attachment 333689
View attachment 333690
View attachment 333691
View attachment 333693
View attachment 333695
View attachment 333696

The Dismounted Close Combat Programme team, part of the UK Ministry of Defence, intends to place a contract for the Equipped to Fight Improvement (EFI) programme for the modification of 5 000 SA80 weapons with Heckler & Koch GMBH & Co for work to be completed by March 2017. The estimated contract value is 2 700 000 GBP. The contract will require the supplier to modify the existing SA80 A2 weapon by fitting a combination of new and modified components. Specific tolerances of materials are needed along with exact dimensions and surface finishes on the components to allow for interoperability with the existing system, particularly when managing the variable interface caused by differing rates of wear of existing components which are recycled as part of the programme. There are very high risks involved in managing the variable tolerances and manufacturing processes when combining new and existing weapon components.


A replacement for the much, and probably unfairly, maligned SA80 is usually the subject of much debate but despite France only recently selecting the HK416 to replace the FAMAS, I get the impression the SA80 is not going anywhere fast.

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2016/09/sa80-equipped-fight/

Good initiative . Our soldiers/boys should keep getting the very best equipment they deserve, so we can keep up with being among the world's most best equipped militaries

In 1990, Heckler & Koch finalised over two decades of development with their revolutionary case-less weapon system and produces prototypes of the HK G11. In addition, the company produced prototypes of the HK G41 military rifle intended for the Bundeswehr. Due to the international political climate at that time (East and West Germany uniting and defense budget cuts) the company was unable to secure funded contracts from the German Government to support production of either weapon system and this resulted in the company becoming financially vulnerable. In the following year [1991], the Heckler & Koch company was sold to the British Aerospace's Royal Ordnance division.

As the result of a 1999 merger between British Aerospace and Marconi Electronic Systems, Heckler & Koch was then owned by BAE Systems and was contracted to refurbish the SA80 rifle for the British Army. This contract entailed a modification programme to the SA80 series of rifles to address a number of reliability issues with the SA80. Three years later, in 2002, BAE Systems restructured and sold Heckler & Koch to a group of private investors.

Hi Mr Penguin. How is the N. Pole?

 

[Baybars Han]

British army has 80k troops. Budget is like 50 billion. They have the budget to make each soldier armed with the latest body armour, weapon, helmet etc etc.

 

[waz]

Looks great and much of the improvements were based upon the experiences in Afghanistan.

 

[Penguin]

Hi Mr Penguin. How is the N. Pole?

I wouldn't know. That's the pole for the Polars Bears!

Penguins normally steer clear and dwell on Antarctica, to avoid this:

Though occasionally me and the misses like to travel and have fun with them bears...

 

[Frogman]

A replacement for the much, and probably unfairly, maligned SA80 is usually the subject of much debate but despite France only recently selecting the HK416 to replace the FAMAS, I get the impression the SA80 is not going anywhere fast.

The simple fact is that it really doesn't need to go anywhere and headshed have no intention of spending when they can extend the life of the SA80 through 'improvements'.

You have to bear in mind that the A2 was only introduced before Telic and even though it went through that and Herrick it still has a lot of shooting it can do unlike the FAMAS which was worn and without a lifeline because the factory had gone.

The SA80 is a cheap and cheerful AR-18 bunged into a bullpup so it was always going to be a bit awkward without a non reciprocating charging handle and these 'improvements' don't address its biggest issues; weight, ergonomics, and how much of a ball ache it is to strip clean reassemble.

P.S if you're infantry or something equally warry the only thing that will be different is the stud so you can't over rotate the change lever (which you need some mong strength to do) and a potentially reworked upper receiver that hopefully may stop the spring flying across the room or into your eye if you're not paying that much attention while you remove the TMH.

If you're a Rifleman there's no problem using this weapon well and I've personally never come across any stoppages that weren't magazine or ammunition related.

The only way it can get binned is if we decide to change calibers which may be sooner than later once the US decide.

Looks great and much of the improvements were based upon the experiences in Afghanistan.

Most of what was done to the rifle during and after Herrick was a Urgent Operational Requirement and doesn't differ much to what was shown at DVD. Certainly not for infantry anyway.