Russia's MS-21 marks its plan for independence

[MarkusS]

P.s. I love its primitive wing form. It looks like an old 737-300.... it has no advanced winglets...nor does it have an advanced curved form. This type of wings is laughabe outdated and shows a performance you could find acceptable in the 70th. I will talk about this when im back home after work and training.

 

[anant_s]

simply ban it from entering european and american airspace makes it a dead project.

not sure @MarkusS
There is a huge market for such medium capacity jets atleast in South Asia with a lot of budget airlines coming up. If the plane is cost effective and is easy to maintain, i'm sure new companies starting operations in the region would be eager to try it. Reliability of components is something only time will tell, but MC 21 (& similar such products) do have a future.

 

[New]

P.s. I love its primitive wing form. It looks like an old 737-300.... it has no advanced winglets...nor does it have an advanced curved form. This type of wings is laughabe outdated and shows a performance you could find acceptable in the 70th. I will talk about this when im back home after work and training.

Man, you are surely introducing a new standard of generating nonsense posts.

 

[Beast]

not sure @MarkusS
There is a huge market for such medium capacity jets atleast in South Asia with a lot of budget airlines coming up. If the plane is cost effective and is easy to maintain, i'm sure new companies starting operations in the region would be eager to try it. Reliability of components is something only time will tell, but MC 21 (& similar such products) do have a future.

The problem is MC-21 will also need to compete with Airbus and Boeing. Given the long establishment of Airbus and Boeing, MC-21 will get a even smaller shares. That share might not be enough to save it.

 

[haman10]

The plane looks good, but I guess engine being Pratt and Whitney will help it prove that its safe.

PD-14 is not the only engine that is supposed to power the project .

there are different versions . as an example iran will use it's indigenous IR50MT1A on it . india and china also have other plans to power the aircraft

The best Russian do is to sell MC-21 technology to China

mate , u do understand that all of these projects are co-designed right ?

Comac ARJ21 , comac C919 and MC-21 are co-designed my friend . how can russia not transfer the technology when C919 and IR-150 are going to be locally produced ?

just look at the production dates . they all start in 2017-2020

 

[Beast]

PD-14 is not the only engine that is supposed to power the project .

there are different versions . as an example iran will use it's indigenous IR50MT1A on it . india and china also have other plans to power the aircraft


mate , u do understand that all of these projects are co-designed right ?

Comac ARJ21 , comac C919 and MC-21 are co-designed my friend . how can russia not transfer the technology when C919 and IR-150 are going to be locally produced ?

just look at the production dates . they all start in 2017-2020

C919 and ARJ21 are all design by AVIC but with control board, landing gears and engine supply by western supplier. Same as MC-21 with PW engine.

 

[anant_s]

The problem is MC-21 will also need to compete with Airbus and Boeing. Given the long establishment of Airbus and Boeing, MC-21 will get a even smaller shares. That share might not be enough to save it.

Yes thats true, it will have to compete with very well established and trusted brands but again as it is with any new entrant in the market, it will have it own share however miniscule it may be. If it can establish itself as a trusted product, there is no reason to believe why small airlines in South Asia and Africa may not want it.
I would like to quote examples of companies like Micromax, Karbon etc in Indian cellphone market. When they started operations, Samsung was a market leader by some distance, today Micromax has become the largest manufacturer of cellphones in India.
now in aviation sector, while scales are different, the underlying philosophy of any business is that, till you have pulse market and market has faith in you and you keep innovating, the business will always grow.
let us wait and watch for the product, i'm there is some space for it in even the most crowded of markets.

 

[senheiser]

simply ban it from entering european and american airspace makes it a dead project.

Its a Airbus and Boeing Duopoly and we have ways to keep it this way. You are simply not capable to build an aircraft with western standards and technology.

So have fun to build up a fleet of regional jets who cant operate outside your own airepace and are only operated from noname airlines without renomee. Sorry...but i'm in no way scared about this. We dont even have this bullshit on our business radar.

Airlines dont want "evryones their own aircrafts". Airlines want standarized models with high uniformed quality and easy maintenance levels. Only a duopoly can guarantee this. What airlines dont want nor need is thousands of different models. When one aircraft has issues, they want it repaired on the spot and not wait hours until a technician arrives who is specialized on this model. I work in this business. You don't. And thats the reason why i predict you that this bullshit project will go down the toilet as any other russian civilian project did in the past.

The iranian project is funny though. Its so cute. I dont know if i want pat their head or laugh.

LOLMAO you want ban entire eurasian peninsula? we can ban you and it will cripple your avaiation industry, we alone are the bigger country.
Airbus is low quality, everyone can see how boieng and airbus are losing market share left and right

Indians are making own planes
chinese
russians
japanese

you can only trick people a period of time until they figure out they paying you for something they can do themselves .

 

[Aepsilons]

P.s. I love its primitive wing form. It looks like an old 737-300.... it has no advanced winglets...nor does it have an advanced curved form. This type of wings is laughabe outdated and shows a performance you could find acceptable in the 70th. I will talk about this when im back home after work and training.

.....

LOLMAO you want ban entire eurasian peninsula? we can ban you and it will cripple your avaiation industry, we alone are the bigger country.
Airbus is low quality, everyone can see how boieng and airbus are losing market share left and right

Indians are making own planes
chinese
russians
japanese

you can only trick people a period of time until they figure out they paying you for something they can do themselves .

So Seinny, are you going to be the pilot in the plane I take? Do i get to fly first class ?



Maybe @Armstrong bhai can fly too for free? Discount for us?

 

[Dash]

there are different versions . as an example iran will use it's indigenous IR50MT1A on it . india and china also have other plans to power the aircraft

I don't have much information of our involvement in this project, but will dig out. Thanks for the info.

 

[Beast]

Yes thats true, it will have to compete with very well established and trusted brands but again as it is with any new entrant in the market, it will have it own share however miniscule it may be. If it can establish itself as a trusted product, there is no reason to believe why small airlines in South Asia and Africa may not want it.
I would like to quote examples of companies like Micromax, Karbon etc in Indian cellphone market. When they started operations, Samsung was a market leader by some distance, today Micromax has become the largest manufacturer of cellphones in India.
now in aviation sector, while scales are different, the underlying philosophy of any business is that, till you have pulse market and market has faith in you and you keep innovating, the business will always grow.
let us wait and watch for the product, i'm there is some space for it in even the most crowded of markets.

That is provided you have the market and in Micromax case, they have India. Russia do not have a big market to support them and their best bet will be India. But that market will be fiercely compete with Airbus and Boeing. This left Russia having very limited choice.

 

[SOHEIL]

 

[MarkusS]

not sure @MarkusS
There is a huge market for such medium capacity jets atleast in South Asia with a lot of budget airlines coming up. If the plane is cost effective and is easy to maintain, i'm sure new companies starting operations in the region would be eager to try it. Reliability of components is something only time will tell, but MC 21 (& similar such products) do have a future.

Airlines in South Asia want be profitable. What they dont want is an airplane so outdated that it does not even have winglets...

As i said, a laughable

LOLMAO you want ban entire eurasian peninsula? we can ban you and it will cripple your avaiation industry, we alone are the bigger country.
Airbus is low quality, everyone can see how boieng and airbus are losing market share left and right

Indians are making own planes
chinese
russians
japanese

you can only trick people a period of time until they figure out they paying you for something they can do themselves .

You can ban nothing. Simply because you would isolate your nation from entire world then.

Airbus and Boeing losing market shares? Idk but Airbus won now even the japanese market and american market with Delta ordering dozens of A350. But why should i debate this nonsense with someone who has no clue what he is talking about.

You can´t even produce a modern wingform

Man, you are surely introducing a new standard of generating nonsense posts.

how exactly is it nonsense that this aircraft does not have modern wing forms? Simple fact is, that it is very hard to press composite materials into a curved form and maintain stability and safety. Its a skill that russia lacks. Russia needs to use composite material, because aluminium would be too heavy. Because of this they take composite material...but use an ineffective and outdated wingform.

If their design fails already on such a low level...i wonder what else is wrong.

 

[senheiser]

You can ban nothing. Simply because you would isolate your nation from entire world then.

Airbus and Boeing losing market shares? Idk but Airbus won now even the japanese market and american market with Delta ordering dozens of A350. But why should i debate this nonsense with someone who has no clue what he is talking about.

You can´t even produce a modern wingform

nope Japanese want to do their own plane

Mitsubishi Regional Jet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

@Nihonjin1051

 

[MarkusS]

nope Japanese want to do their own plane

Mitsubishi Regional Jet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it will be as sucesful as their last one.