Russian think tank calls for sale of Su-35 fighters to Pakistan

[Storm Force]

Lol, PAF to sell or put F-16s in storage, what a wishful thinking. PAF will fly F-16s for next 20 odd years from now, it may drop from tip of spear to second tier but it will still be around. PAF has spent million in 80s, that be Billions currently on the F-16 Support Infrastructure, not something they would discard because someones dislike for "Made in USA."

PAF Loves, adores the F-16, and since its a magnificent plane and gives awesome bang for $, so would any Airforce that fly's it.

They are the best you have better then your thunders and realistically whislt France UK Russia even China could supply you superior planes to falcons you simply can't buy Euro canards flankers or J10b S
No financial ability and that is the only reason your air force has not acquired any if these super fighters

By the way the typhoon rafale the J10b or the su30/35. Would eat your legacy falcons for breakfast.

The biggest headache the f16 was great bang for buck in the year 2000/2010 as Pakistan was USA ally and you had USA maintenance support.

But today you are second fiddle to the India USA nexus and strategic relationship. And no USA will not support your falcon fleet in S war with India.

That does not make then redundant but they are compromised in the medium term.

Hence there is desire to ultimately retire the compromised falcons for su35 or J31,.

But J31.is decade away and cost could be huge .

The European fighters are far too costly even for India who has six times Pakistan defense budget annually.

That leaves su35 but again Russia will never compromise Indian relationships

That leaves China

J31 in ten years time

Or J10.now

Unless you wish to fight rafales and flankers with thunders and compromised falcons with USA sanctions during a war

 

[scionofPakwattan]

Lot of things from Russia are on offer few are even secretly inducted more things are on the way

what do you mean by secretly inducted? how can any induction be a secret in today's world. and what kind of equipment are we talking abt here?

 

[Raider 21]

They are the best you have better then your thunders and realistically whislt France UK Russia even China could supply you superior planes to falcons you simply can't buy Euro canards flankers or J10b S
No financial ability and that is the only reason your air force has not acquired any if these super fighters

By the way the typhoon rafale the J10b or the su30/35. Would eat your legacy falcons for breakfast.

The biggest headache the f16 was great bang for buck in the year 2000/2010 as Pakistan was USA ally and you had USA maintenance support.

But today you are second fiddle to the India USA nexus and strategic relationship. And no USA will not support your falcon fleet in S war with India.

That does not make then redundant but they are compromised in the medium term.

Hence there is desire to ultimately retire the compromised falcons for su35 or J31,.

But J31.is decade away and cost could be huge .

The European fighters are far too costly even for India who has six times Pakistan defense budget annually.

That leaves su35 but again Russia will never compromise Indian relationships

That leaves China

J31 in ten years time

Or J10.now

Unless you wish to fight rafales and flankers with thunders and compromised falcons with USA sanctions during a war

Explains a lot why NATO still wants to keep the F-16A/B airframe with MLU upgrades. They still make Rafales and Typhoons sweat.

The maintenance support is there whether government are against them or not....militarily they have favourable relations which may disappoint the Indian government. The annual hours have not fallen short and the sorties are still being flown.

Su-35 is an expensive platform to induct with the high cost of maintenance.

USA was not there to support the F-86 Sabres fleet in the previous wars...look how that turned out. Rest assured, PAF will fight if must, no matter how much the Indian government cries over third-hand F-16s come to Pakistan.

 

[Zarvan]

what do you mean by secretly inducted? how can any induction be a secret in today's world. and what kind of equipment are we talking abt here?

Not a Fighter Jet but something which can be quietly inducted and yes even in this world many weapons can quietly be inducted

 

[Storm Force]

Explains a lot why NATO still wants to keep the F-16A/B airframe with MLU upgrades. They still make Rafales and Typhoons sweat.

The maintenance support is there whether government are against them or not....militarily they have favourable relations which may disappoint the Indian government. The annual hours have not fallen short and the sorties are still being flown.

Su-35 is an expensive platform to induct with the high cost of maintenance.

USA was not there to support the F-86 Sabres fleet in the previous wars...look how that turned out. Rest assured, PAF will fight if must, no matter how much the Indian government cries over third-hand F-16s come to Pakistan.

The F16/AB are being replaced the world over by

F35 lightening OR gripen Or TYPHOON

The only new F16 being inducted are block 52 and Above

THE F16A/B are over 40 years old and have old engines & radars which where massively upgraded in block 52 onwards ie APG63 radar went to APG69 and now is at APG81 on UAE F16/60

THE PAF have 18 modern F16/52 the rest are the versions being replaced the world over

 

[Hamza913]

THE PAF have 18 modern F16/52

As said many times before, 45 of the others have been upgraded to block 50 standard. Learn to listen.

By the way the typhoon rafale the J10b or the su30/35. Would eat your legacy falcons for breakfast.

Don't get too cocky:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/08/eurofighter_beaten_by_f16/

A tool is only as good as the operator, we have defied the odds many times before and will do it many times again.

 

[khanasifm]

Per acm kaleem back in the days 2003-4 Jane’s country profile af section jf-17 will be the Bulk induction and on top of that there is a need for 30-50 modern type since then 18 block 52 plus 14 additional eda f-16 which were Mlued and 13 Jordanian f-16 adf version has been added making 18+14+13= 45

Unless economic condition change in next few years only $ left would cover jf continuation

 

[Storm Force]

As said many times before, 45 of the others have been upgraded to block 50 standard. Learn to listen.



Don't get too cocky:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/08/eurofighter_beaten_by_f16/

A tool is only as good as the operator, we have defied the odds many times before and will do it many times again.

You have NO idea what your talking about my friend

YES you upgraded 45 old basic F16 to MLU

but that upgrade DID not replace the engines which are 35% more powerful in block 52
You did not change the APG63 but upgaded this versipon to a higher speck which is only half as good as the APG69 ON THE bock 52.

I suggest you search and learn the key difference between your block 50 and the purpose built block 52

http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3627

You cannot spend $20 million on a upgrade and expecvt it to become a $70 million block 52

 

[Hamza913]

You have NO idea what your talking about my friend

YES you upgraded 45 old basic F16 to MLU

but that upgrade DID not replace the engines which are 35% more powerful in block 52
You did not change the APG63 but upgaded this versipon to a higher speck which is only half as good as the APG69 ON THE bock 52.

I suggest you search and learn the key difference between your block 50 and the purpose built block 52

http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3627

You cannot spend $20 million on a upgrade and expecvt it to become a $70 million block 52

I never said block 52, I said block 50. Also, I know it won't be 100% the same, but it'll be damn close.

My other point is also still valid.

 

[FuturePAF]

Pakistan should sign a deal with China to lease J-11 Fighters from China in the event of an emergency. PAF Pilots would train with the PLAAF and PLANAF at their bases, even keeping these fighter inside China and Sharing the planes with the Chinese pilots. Rotate half of the PAF pilots in this way with the Flanker Series, and the other Half with the friendly air forces operating F-16s, Mirage 2000s, F-15s, Eurofighters, etc. Eventually we would have enough pilots trained to fly these planes, and get cutting edge experience. In the event of a war or period of heightened tensions, the PLAAF would fly half a dozen squadrans of J-11s to Kashgar and hand them over to PAF pilots. When over a 100 modern aircraft join the fight from a safe reserve, it can help push back any surprise the IAF could through at Pakistan. If fighters are lost in battle, PAF can stipulate replacement fighters for further leasing at an additional cost for the duration of the conflict.

Kashgar already hosts Flanker series fighters and the KJ-500 AWACS, upgrading it to host a PAF support mission shouldn't be too hard for the PLAAF if such and agreement were made. This option would be a lot cheaper than buying planes, that are being replaced with more modern aircraft as the Chinese advance in technology. PAF almost bought J-10s, but now they are current technology, like the JF-17. PAF needs to have access to cutting edge fighter aircraft, and a leasing agreement for 102 fighters in six squadrans can help the PAF keep costs down and maintain an edge with the help of a trusted ally.

In 10 years update the agreement to lease 102 Stealth Fighters when that technology matures, and the PLAAF has enough stealth Fighters to spare. Pakistan needs to save its money for the economy and the development of our people.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

You have NO idea what your talking about my friend

YES you upgraded 45 old basic F16 to MLU

but that upgrade DID not replace the engines which are 35% more powerful in block 52
You did not change the APG63 but upgaded this versipon to a higher speck which is only half as good as the APG69 ON THE bock 52.

I suggest you search and learn the key difference between your block 50 and the purpose built block 52

http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3627

You cannot spend $20 million on a upgrade and expecvt it to become a $70 million block 52

The PAF MLU update (for the 45 F-16A/Bs) included the AN/APG-68(v9), JHMCS and basically every other electronics subsystem found in the Block-50/52+.

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.co...es-upgrades-weapons-for-pakistans-f16s-02396/

 

[Signalian]

The PAF MLU update (for the 45 F-16A/Bs) included the AN/APG-68(v9), JHMCS and basically every other subsystem found in the Block-50/52+.

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.co...es-upgrades-weapons-for-pakistans-f16s-02396/

I think engine and CFT are the difference.

 

[Sinnerman108]

They are the best you have better then your thunders and realistically whislt France UK Russia even China could supply you superior planes to falcons you simply can't buy Euro canards flankers or J10b S
No financial ability and that is the only reason your air force has not acquired any if these super fighters

By the way the typhoon rafale the J10b or the su30/35. Would eat your legacy falcons for breakfast.

The biggest headache the f16 was great bang for buck in the year 2000/2010 as Pakistan was USA ally and you had USA maintenance support.

But today you are second fiddle to the India USA nexus and strategic relationship. And no USA will not support your falcon fleet in S war with India.

That does not make then redundant but they are compromised in the medium term.

Hence there is desire to ultimately retire the compromised falcons for su35 or J31,.

But J31.is decade away and cost could be huge .

The European fighters are far too costly even for India who has six times Pakistan defense budget annually.

That leaves su35 but again Russia will never compromise Indian relationships

That leaves China

J31 in ten years time

Or J10.now

Unless you wish to fight rafales and flankers with thunders and compromised falcons with USA sanctions during a war

SO:
That leaves su35 but again Russia will never compromise Indian relationships

This is your only argument ?

Good.

 

[mdmm]

defence.pk is a great informative forum for AF engineers and non-AF Pakistani today. Thanks.
I am a specialist doctor since 26 year and read world newspapers regularly .
Today the air defence industry and Geo politics are two different things.Geo-politician do not know much about air defence war heads. May be P.M Imran Khan get better deals for war planes after he recover financial powers, from chronic corrupt Pakistani dirty opposition leaders. Forget about sale of advanced air planes from western powers to Pakistan .Only China and Russia are willing to sell these planes to Pakistan.
I agree with comment from upper sections.Boomin' Bomber I.J.FULL MEMBER , salman-1 FULL MEMBER
""Geopolitics of the world have changed; Russia will sell anything short of nukes to Pakistan, provided we can pay for it.Like it or not, the next grand alliances would be Russia, China and Pakistan vs. US, Israel and India, as the major partners.""
""Buying Su 35 would be an icon in the new relationship between Pakistan and Russia. It will be a smash to US policies towards Pakistan""

 

[sathya]

defence.pk is a great informative forum for AF engineers and non-AF Pakistani today. Thanks.
I am a specialist doctor since 26 year and read world newspapers regularly .
Today the air defence industry and Geo politics are two different things.Geo-politician do not know much about air defence war heads. May be P.M Imran Khan get better deals for war planes after he recover financial powers, from chronic corrupt Pakistani dirty opposition leaders. Forget about sale of advanced air planes from western powers to Pakistan .Only China and Russia are willing to sell these planes to Pakistan.
I agree with comment from upper sections.Boomin' Bomber I.J.FULL MEMBER , salman-1 FULL MEMBER
""Geopolitics of the world have changed; Russia will sell anything short of nukes to Pakistan, provided we can pay for it.Like it or not, the next grand alliances would be Russia, China and Pakistan vs. US, Israel and India, as the major partners.""
""Buying Su 35 would be an icon in the new relationship between Pakistan and Russia. It will be a smash to US policies towards Pakistan""

you could add France to the US, Israel and India

since Rafale & scorpene subs are Major imports.