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Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2

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jhungary said:
The Ukrainian have all the time they want as long as they did not commit anything to the battle, they aren't going anywhere, that's their country. Russia on the other hand, is the one that have to constantly supplying the frontline from Russia, they don't enjoy the same support the Ukrainian have.

I never said Ukrainian offensive is a success, I said how you know it stalled when it is still less than 2 weeks old? No one knows how this is going to play out, I trained with Battlefield Tactics, and I don't even know how this is going to play out, yet you claim this is "Bad Optics" and the offensive is "stalled"

Maybe you know something we didn't?

On the other hand, Russian offensive is a foregone conclusion, it's started 5 months ago, this is not the same optics than the current Ukrainian counter offensive you know. All I can say is, by this time, the Ukrainian offensive have lead to more result than the Russian offensive, as I said before, Ukraine already had captured more land than the previous 5 months by the Russian, and that is a fact, not a speculation.
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no, do they not have all the time, that is not under basic logic of war, eventually all racionalisation and justification will fizzle out.
 
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NotSure said:
Nuland-Kagan sekt "ISW": Ukrainian forces may be temporarily pausing counteroffensive operations to reevaluate tactics.

Mighty Nato tactics by the way.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/14d8f6k
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Well you could do like russia and keep wasting armor and infantry by just throwing wave after wave against a problem.
Like in Ugledar and Bakhmut.

Or you could..having the initiative and letting the enemy guess where the hit will come…pause and re-evaluate.
In meantime raining havoc with himars and storm shadows on russian rear.

If anything this should worry russia.
Ukraine is learning, patient, daring to look at faults. And preserving its fighting power.
 
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Vergennes said:
Trench clearing by Ukrainian special forces behind enemy lines. Russian soldiers were totally unprepared and panicked. @F-22Raptor @ZeGerman @That Guy @LeGenD

https://twitter.com/x/status/1670706258326765569
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brutal video - it just shows the brutality of trench warfare and the randomness of luck if you will live or die in those operations.

The use of silencers is a tactical advantage in those scenarios for an attacking force for sure it seems.
 
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mulj said:
no, do they not have all the time, that is not under basic logic of war, eventually all racionalisation and justification will fizzle out.
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lol, what you said is illogical.

Ukrainians inhibit Ukraine, when you say, "They don't have time", then do tell me where are all the Ukrainian is going to go? Or you suppose the Ukrainian will think 10 years down the road "Hey Russia occupied Donbas for 10 years and it's time to let go"?

The logic of war is, in the MOST BASIC term, the invader, which is Russia, can only sustain the operation for a limited amount of time, and that is coming from the principal of war, Russia cannot stay in Ukraine forever as long as Ukraine put up any resistance, because they are going to need to constantly supply the occupation and you can't do that indefinitely.

Russia only has a certain window to capture and indoctrinate Ukraine, once that time is over, they would have to leave, they can't stay in Ukraine forever, that's the fact on the ground. This is the same fact the Vietnamese done to the American, the Iraqi done to ISIS and the Taliban done to NATO. It cannot just apply on one side and Russia is somehow shielded from this fact.

So with all due respect, you are wrong.
 
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jhungary said:
lol, what you said is illogical.

Ukrainians inhibit Ukraine, when you say, "They don't have time", then do tell me where are all the Ukrainian is going to go? Or you suppose the Ukrainian will think 10 years down the road "Hey Russia occupied Donbas for 10 years and it's time to let go"?

The logic of war is, in the MOST BASIC term, the invader, which is Russia, can only sustain the operation for a limited amount of time, and that is coming from the principal of war, Russia cannot stay in Ukraine forever as long as Ukraine put up any resistance, because they are going to need to constantly supply the occupation and you can't do that indefinitely.

Russia only has a certain window to capture and indoctrinate Ukraine, once that time is over, they would have to leave, they can't stay in Ukraine forever, that's the fact on the ground. This is the same fact the Vietnamese done to the American, the Iraqi done to ISIS and the Taliban done to NATO. It cannot just apply on one side and Russia is somehow shielded from this fact.

So with all due respect, you are wrong.
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no dude, they have 10 mill or so hostile population supported by their big brother, so that principle could not be applied integrally on Ukraina situation,

So, there are 3 solutions on table, accepting it with current status quo, complete defeat of separatists and expelling them to russia or continuation of this seemingly endless war.

I am for option 2 but they are simply not capable to achieve that goal for certain period of time, eventually world will get tired of throwing money and weapons without decisive results, time is not ally of ukraina as russia come back to its feet after initial cut from west.
 
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The tremendous

The tremendous thing of the Ukrainian Gambit 1997/2008- is that after hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian pawns sacrificed ...

... the thing will end up telling the furious nationalists of Volynia and the nostalgics of the 14th Waffen SS ...

... that joining NATO was a joke so that the Russian would take the bait.

---

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qGoEsl-Pel-ZuRrHJejkrD4ZJgdAef4H/view?usp=sharing
 
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mulj said:
no dude, they have 10 mill or so hostile population supported by their big brother, so that principle could not be applied integrally on Ukraina situation,

So, there are 3 solutions on table, accepting it with current status quo, complete defeat of separatists and expelling them to russia or continuation of this seemingly endless war.

I am for option 2 but they are simply not capable to achieve that goal for certain period of time, eventually world will get tired of throwing money and weapons without decisive results, time is not ally of ukraina as russia come back to its feet after initial cut from west.
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lol, who had 10 millions or so hostile population? Not all of the donbas are pro-Russia, certainly not the one that recently captured in 2022. On the other hand, didn't Vietnamese and Taliban both generate enough "Hostile" population supported by the US and NATO to have achieve the same result.

The problem is, you are thinking about the "end" of this war, this counter offensive is NOT going to end this war, this at best is going to be put either Ukrainian or Russia in a better position in the table, problem is, it won't end even if Ukraine or Russia achieve victory in this counter offensive. The war is going to drag on, maybe in a lower intensity. Simply because of the fact that this war is ONLY going to end once Russia withdraw from Ukraine. Because as long as they present in Ukraine, there are always going to be fighting, even if the Ukrainian is without western support, which I highly doubt, because do you think the West would let Ukraine go with all these weapons deliver to them just to have them lose the war and all went to Russia or even China sphere of influence? Ukrainian would still able to resort to insurgency.

The West is going to prop this up especially if this does not involve NATO casualty. Because they know very well it's either bleed Ukrainian blood by giving them weapon or bleed European blood by fighting the Russian themselves.

So, no, Time is NOT on Russian side, and it's naive to think so, because Russian already gave their prime in this conflict, I mean what can the Russia do now when they can't with their best troop and best equipment at the beginning of the war? And with the subsequent 300k add on for the last offensive? That's a lot of combat power ALREADY wasted and it is going to take the Russian decade to replace all those, that is if they are doable to begin with.
 
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jhungary said:
lol, who had 10 millions or so hostile population? Not all of the donbas are pro-Russia, certainly not the one that recently captured in 2022. On the other hand, didn't Vietnamese and Taliban both generate enough "Hostile" population supported by the US and NATO to have achieve the same result.

The problem is, you are thinking about the "end" of this war, this counter offensive is NOT going to end this war, this at best is going to be put either Ukrainian or Russia in a better position in the table, problem is, it won't end even if Ukraine or Russia achieve victory in this counter offensive. The war is going to drag on, maybe in a lower intensity. Simply because of the fact that this war is ONLY going to end once Russia withdraw from Ukraine. Because as long as they present in Ukraine, there are always going to be fighting, even if the Ukrainian is without western support, which I highly doubt, because do you think the West would let Ukraine go with all these weapons deliver to them just to have them lose the war and all went to Russia or even China sphere of influence? Ukrainian would still able to resort to insurgency.

The West is going to prop this up especially if this does not involve NATO casualty. Because they know very well it's either bleed Ukrainian blood by giving them weapon or bleed European blood by fighting the Russian themselves.

So, no, Time is NOT on Russian side, and it's naive to think so, because Russian already gave their prime in this conflict, I mean what can the Russia do now when they can't with their best troop and best equipment at the beginning of the war? And with the subsequent 300k add on for the last offensive? That's a lot of combat power ALREADY wasted and it is going to take the Russian decade to replace all those, that is if they are doable to begin with.
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eventually they will have to sit on table, sooner then we all think from current perspective, on the other hand as much as is russiea "depleted" same or worse could be sad for ukraina but russians have their own armament production gives them upper hand in war calculations.
west is cynical i agree, they will not let that ukraina live defeat but they will not also send enough armament to drive out russians from their country, messed up and diabolical.
 
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mulj said:
eventually they will have to sit on table, sooner then we all think from current perspective, on the other hand as much as is russiea "depleted" same or worse could be sad for ukraina but russians have their own armament production gives them upper hand in war calculations.
west is cynical i agree, they will not let that ukraina live defeat but they will not also send enough armament to drive out russians from their country, messed up and diabolical.
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They won't sit at the table if both side think they can win, and Ukraine will not sit in the table at all unless security is guaranteed.

Wouldn't use diabolical to label the west, more likely "Calculated" Diabolical would mean the west orchestrated the entire thing. This war would NEVER happen if Russia did not invade Ukraine to begin with, whether or not the West is behind this they can't possibly be behind Putin decision to invade Ukraine. This is an opportunity that present itself to F with Russia in a big way with minimal/no loss. It would be stupid for the West not to take it with both hands.
 
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