Russia to China: You Shouldn't Have Stolen Our Jet Fighter

[Reashot Xigwin]

[https://nationalinterest]


September 26, 2018 Topic: Security Blog Brand: The Buzz Tags: RussiaChinaMilitaryTechnologyWorldJ-15

And Beijing might be paying the price.

by Michael Peck

Cheaters never prosper, says Russia.

Remember that Russian carrier-based jet that China copied without permission? Those airplanes are crashing, and Russia doesn't seem too broken up about it.

Though Russia and China are now friends, even holding joint exercises, Russia's Sputnik News recently trotted out an article titled "Chinese Navy Short on Carrier-Based Fighters, Only Has Problem-Ridden J-15. "

The J-15 is an unlicensed copy of Russia's Su-33 carrier jet, which is a 1980s derivative of the Su-27K land-based fighter. China had acquired a T-10K-3, an Su-33 prototype, from Ukraine and then reverse-engineered it.

With a barely disguised touch of schadenfreude, Sputnik News delved into the woes of the J-15. "Love for the fourth-generation J-15 jet is seldom shown in Chinese circles," said the Russian news site. "The Asia Times noted that Chinese media has disparaged the plane in numerous ways, including referring to it as a 'flopping fish' for its inability to operate effectively from the Chinese carriers, which launch fixed-wing aircraft under their own power from an inclined ramp on the bow of the ship. The J-15's engines and heavy weight severely limit its ability to operate effectively: at 17.5 tons empty weight, it tops the scales for carrier-based fighters. The US Navy's F-18 workhorse, by comparison, is only 14.5 tons."


Many shoppers on eBay and Amazon can attest to what happens when you buy "unlicensed" products, though one can ask how many of these problems began with the original Russian design. In any event, so many J-15s have crashed and burned that China is developing a new carrier jet, the J-31.

After dissecting the J-15's flaws, Sputnik News then trotted out Russian military expert Vasily Kashin, who proceeded to explain why you shouldn't copy other nation's aircraft without permission.

"Years ago the Chinese decided to save some money and, instead of buying several Su-33s from Russia for their subsequent license production in China, they opted for a Su-33 prototype in Ukraine," Kashin said.

"The development of the J-15 took more time and more money than expected, and the first planes proved less than reliable," said Kashin. "By spending some more time and money, the Chinese will apparently solve the problems they now have and will get a fairly reliable and powerful carrier-based fighter."

At this point, it is worth noting that the Soviet Union and post-Soviet Russia also had a habit of "acquiring" Western technology without the consent of the owners, for everything from the atomic bomb, to the Space Shuttle and video games. It's actually a dubious accomplishment, an admission that a nation lacks the capacity to really innovate its own technology.

Considering that China has the same habit, there is a poetic justice here.

Michael Peck is a contributing writer for the National Interest. He can be found on Twitter and Facebook.

 

[Solomon2]

Copying aircraft exactly is surprisingly difficult, as subtle differences is component characteristics scarcely detectable during manufacture can manifest as failure when the craft are assembled. Both the Russians and the Chinese learned this decades ago. The Russians stopped trying to do this. I wonder why the Chinese keep at it?

 

[Akasa]

Moronic article.

The J-15 accidents were not linked to the aircraft's lineage to the T-10K/Su-33 or the fact that it is a derivative. Carrier-borne flight training will result in fatalities and airframe losses regardless of the country that undertakes the task or the airframe used. And yes, this also includes the "original" Su-33.

 

[nang2]

Copying aircraft exactly is surprisingly difficult, as subtle differences is component characteristics scarcely detectable during manufacture can manifest as failure when the craft are assembled. Both the Russians and the Chinese learned this decades ago. The Russians stopped trying to do this. I wonder why the Chinese keep at it?

Your question has two possible answers. One, your statement "Copying aircraft exactly is surprisingly difficult..." is false. Two, Chinese are stubborn idiots. Pick your favorite.

 

[Genesis]

Copying aircraft exactly is surprisingly difficult, as subtle differences is component characteristics scarcely detectable during manufacture can manifest as failure when the craft are assembled. Both the Russians and the Chinese learned this decades ago. The Russians stopped trying to do this. I wonder why the Chinese keep at it?

J-20 is an exact copy, how?

 

[Solomon2]

Your question has two possible answers. One, your statement "Copying aircraft exactly is surprisingly difficult..." is false. Two, Chinese are stubborn idiots. Pick your favorite.

A copied airframe simply won't have the same characteristics of the original, not unless such effort is put into the copy that it makes more sense to apply the same effort to copying the technology and building an aircraft of your own instead. The Russians learned this when they copied American B-29s that crashed on their territory: they succeeded in part, but the effort was so great that they fell behind in other aerospace technologies. And I believe the Chinese learned the same lesson when they copied the Boeing 707 jetliner: the copies never performed the same as the originals, even accounting for differences in engines.

J-20 is an exact copy, how?

Subject is J-15, not J-20.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

A copied airframe simply won't have the same characteristics of the original, not unless such effort is put into the copy that it makes more sense to apply the same effort to copying the technology and building an aircraft of your own instead. The Russians learned this when they copied American B-29s that crashed on their territory: they succeeded in part, but the effort was so great that they fell behind in other aerospace technologies. And I believe the Chinese learned the same lesson when they copied the Boeing 707 jetliner: the copies never performed the same as the originals, even accounting for differences in engines.


Subject is J-15, not J-20.

Sure its not going to be as good as the original but at least china now have carrier capable fighters in their arsenal no matter how flawed.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

All properties are stolen - Karl Marx

 

[MastanKhan]

Copying aircraft exactly is surprisingly difficult, as subtle differences is component characteristics scarcely detectable during manufacture can manifest as failure when the craft are assembled. Both the Russians and the Chinese learned this decades ago. The Russians stopped trying to do this. I wonder why the Chinese keep at it?

Hi,

They have no other option---.

What china has gained in the last 20 years---is a massive step forward in technology from where they were---.

 

[Crystal-Clear]

yawn . west desperately trying to disturb the relationship between China & Russia .

 

[Beast]

I remember it's the 2 Russia plane that crashed into the sea from carrier instead of Chinese one. So who version is lousy?

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

What matters is theres a blueprint to begin with. The j-15 is only a stop gay measure for greater things to come as its engineers discover its flaws n makes improvements after improvrments. Going by chinas fastpace track record in reaching deadlines, this wont be long.

You always have to start somewhere

 

[Brainsucker]

Sure its not going to be as good as the original but at least china now have carrier capable fighters in their arsenal no matter how flawed.

The bold : Are you sure about that?

What flaw that J-15 has that make it less capable than the cold war era SU-33? Radar? Avionic? Aerodynamic? Engine or what? Can you explain it here?

Yes, Russia's technology in avionic, radar, missile, etc is not behind China. But, they don't use SU-33 anymore. Instead, for their Aircraft Carrier, Russia use a brand new Mig-29K model. So there is no "new" SU-33. And because of that, SU-33 is just a relic of Cold War Era.

 

[艹艹艹]

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

yawn . west desperately trying to disturb the relationship between China & Russia .

You kidding me right? The west don't have to do shit. During vostok exercise the chinese only send a small contingent to the exercise while they send their submarine to spy on the russian navy.