Russia Signs Landmark Military Cooperation Agreement With Pakistan

[Ali Raza Butt571]

Do you know that

 

[Penguin]

Say bye, bye to America !!!

This is one excellent news for Russia-Pakistan ties.

FOr all the deals with China, the US is still with Pakistan and vv. You think 1 simple helicopter deal with Russia will change that fundamentally?

 

[Penguin]

View attachment 155134
mi 28 is must thing for pakistan

The multirole Mi-35M attack helicopter is a comprehensive modernisation of the Mi-24V, the deal is not for the Mi 28

The Mi-35 is operated by the Armed Forces of Russia, Venezuela, Brazil and Azerbaijan.
Although Brazil buys from Russia, that country has not gone over to the Russian camp.

 

[mike2000]

russians selling attack helicopters to pakistan, US President is our chief guest for republic day parade next year, looks like a paradigm shift in India's foreign policy. truly, money buys everything, even loyalty of european countries.

loool i already told your Indian brothers on here who kept saying Russia is India's 'best friend'.lool Very Naive/funny to see people talking about friends(and best one for that matter.lol) in geo politics, Much like one of my vietnamese firend on here insisting Russia, U.S and France are Vietnams friends.lool

Anyway coming back to topic. This is only a natural phenomenon, countries are always after their interests. So as India's interests with Russia keeps changing(and they will even more with each passing year) India will keep drifting apart from Russia, since they dont have much in common these days apart from buyer seller weapons relationships(which India can still get even better ones from the west/Israel/Japan). So Russia to India is replaceable, I expect it to be even more so in the coming decade or two, as the west/U.S/Israel increase arms exports/defence cooperation with India, and China/Russia get closer due to changing geo political power/landscape of the region. India will/should maintain its trading relationship with Russia though, but i think India will be more inclined towards the west/U.S since both have a mutual wariness of China and their interests both match these days than with Russia. So expect to see even more such news these coming years.......interesting times are coming i guess.

 

[mike2000]

India will block this 100%.
With a proper mmw radar its equivalent to apache.The only thing inferior is the maximum ordnance it can carry due to approx being 3000 kg heavier than apache.

But the built quality is better.

lool i dont think India can block any Russian arms deals anymore. If Russia think selling them to Pakistan will be in its interests, then believe me they will do it. Russia though a dminished power, is still a power to be reckoned with, So a weaker country like India telling who Russia should sell its weapons to is quite funny.lool Morever, India is increasingly moving closer/buying weapons systems from the U.S/west/Israel than from Russia, and this will only increase with time. This i think is something, Moscow has noticed, and of course they will sell/provide weapons to any country who can buy, unless India bribes Russia with huge weapons purchased like it has been doing in the past decades, however i dont see that happening, since India now has better access to western/U.S/israeli weapons/arms which they know are better than Russian ones. So obviously India will choose from the best, thereby giving Russia more reason to sell to whom it wants.

 

[he-man]

lool i dont think India can block any Russian arms deals anymore. If Russia think selling them to Pakistan will be in its interests, then believe me they will do it. Russia though a dminished power, is still a power to be reckoned with, So a weaker country like India telling who Russia should sell its weapons to is quite funny.lool Morever, India is increasingly moving closer/buying weapons systems from the U.S/west/Israel than from Russia, and this will only increase with time. This i think is something, Moscow has noticed, and of course they will sell/provide weapons to any country who can buy, unless India bribes Russia with huge weapons purchased like it has been doing in the past decades, however i dont see that happening, since India now has better access to western/U.S/israeli weapons/arms which they know are better than Russian ones. So obviously India will choose from the best, thereby giving Russia more reason to sell to whom it wants.

U have no idea mike.
Pakistan's total defence budget is 6 billion so they are not really serious contenders here.

We will be signing pakfa contract valued at 35 billion over next 25 years,,not to mention leasing another nuclear sub,development of hypersonic brahmos,upgradation od mki to super mki,future ugradation of mig-29k with aesa etc for mlu.

Others are medium transport aircraft,etc.

So yeah we will/can block it indeed

 

[he-man]

“Russia has moved up Pakistan in its category B from D for arms sales, which means that Pakistan can now buy weapons from Russian market,” he revealed.


what kind of weapons that are in category B ?????

Those approved by india

 

[A.M.]

Money talks.

We need to expand our supplies and this is a good step.

 

[mike2000]

U have no idea mike.
Pakistan's total defence budget is 6 billion so they are not really serious contenders here.

We will be signing pakfa contract valued at 35 billion over next 25 years,,not to mention leasing another nuclear sub,development of hypersonic brahmos,upgradation od mki to super mki,future ugradation of mig-29k with aesa etc for mlu.

Others are medium transport aircraft,etc.

So yeah we will/can block it indeed

Nope you cant, You still need Russia, more than Russia needs you to be honest. The only use India is to Russia is just as a cash ATM machine.lool Apart from that, you people have no mutual interests nor do you share a common world view. Reason why even the defence deals/contracts you just mentioned you signed with Moscow, despite those Russia is still reluctant/unwilling to transfer its best tech to India(i dont blame them though, since no sane power in this world will transfer its best high tech technology to another country, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU PAY FOR IT.lol). So yes Russia might still train/sell/form JV with Indian companies, but they will only transfer the tech they know is inferior to the latest ones they themeselves have/use(which is what every world power does to be honest). So dont expect much from such projects/JV, but at the end you will still get the ready made products/weapon though(which is the most important thing afterall.lol). India needs to rely/invest in its own weapons systems/R&D and create its own military industrial complex like the U.S,Russia, France, U.K, China, even Japan have. Else India will never really be a world power in its own right but a borrowed/second rate power. Hopefully this will change with time.

As for India dictating to Russia which weapons/country it can sell,loool Again i told you Russia is still a power to be reckoned with(though an increasingly diminished one), India has no real power to dictate Russia's foreign arm deals, the only way as i said earlier which India could do this, is by bribing Russia(with billions of dollars) like it had been doing for much of the past decades and remaining loyal to Moscow through its defence purchases and distancing itself from a closer relationship with the west/U.S/israel in favor of Moscow, however i dont see that happening as i said earlier, Indias interests with Russia has changed alot from the Soviet days, Russia is no U.S.S.R anymore, and Indiadoesnt have much in common with Moscow, the only thing they have in common is a buyer -seller weapons relationship, but even this last cord/interest/link they have together is reducing with each passing year, and will reduce even more in the coming decade as India acquires more of its weapons from the West/U.S/israel/Japan and develops its own weapons itself. So expect your relationship with Moscow to sour even more 15-20 years from now. This is good for India though, since India's interests match more with that of the west/U.S/israel than it does with Russia, Since we can offer more to India than Russia can in the long run, and we all know every country only look out for their interests, so India shouldnt be any different. Thats geo politics for you.

 

[he-man]

Nope you cant, You still need Russia, more than Russia needs you to be honest. The only use India is to Russia is just as a cash ATM machine.lool Apart from that, you epople have no mutual interests/share a common world view. Reason why even the defence deals/contracts you just mentioned you signed with Moscow, despite those Russia is still reluctant/unwilling to transfer its best tech to India(i dont blame them though, since no sane power in thsi world will transfer its best high tech technology to another country, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU PAY FOR IT.lol). So yes Russia might still train/sell/form JV with Indian companies, but they will only transfer the tech they know is inferior to the latest ones they themeselves have/use(which is what every world power does to be honest). So dont expect much from such projects/JV, but at the end you will get the ready made products though(which is the most important thing afterall). India needs to rely/invest in its own weapons systems/R&D and create its own military industrial complex like the U.S,Russia, France, U.K, China, even Japan have. Else India will never really be a world power in its own right but a borrowed/second rate power. Hopefully this will change with time.

As for India dictating to Russia which weapons/coutnry it can sell,loool Again i told you Russia is still a power to be reckoned with(though an increasingly diminished one), India hss no real power to dictate Russia foreign arm deals, the only way as i said which India could do that, is by bribing Russia like it had been doing for much of the past decades and remaining loyal to Moscow through its defence purchases and distancing itself from a closer relationship with the west/U.S/israel in favor of Moscow, however i dont see that happening as i said earlier, Indias interests with Russia has changed alot from the Soviet days, Russia is no U.S.S.R anymore, and Indiadoesnt have much in common with Moscow, the only thing they have in common is a buyer -seller weapons relationship, but even this last cord/interest/link they have together is reducing with each passing year, and will reduce even more in the coming decade as India acquires more of its weapons from the West/U.S/israel/Japan and develops its own weapons itself. So expect your relationship with Moscow to sour even more 15-20 years from now. This is good for India thoug, since Indias interests match more with that of the west/U.S/israel than it does with Russia, Since we can offer more to India than Russia can in the long run, and we all know every country only look out for their interests, so India shouldnt be any different. Thats geo politics for you.

Poor analysis with boring paragraph.

India has options with any weapon system it needs,we can buy from anyone.
Russia on the other hand has only 2 potential buyers

1)India
2)China

Now china is self sufficient is everything except in aircraft engines, big transport helicopters and transport aircraft(for the time being) so it virtually buys nothing from russia except spare rd-33/93 and al-31f engines which are very small orders indeed with pretty low profit margin.
Chinese are on to j-20 and j-31 so have nothing to do with pakfa.In this situation where will russia go if it ditches india or vice versa??It still needs money,11 billion$ for r&d atleast and its not getting anyricher looking at all the sanctions,falling oil prices and international isolation.



India on the other hand will remain a cash cow for another 2 decades at least as we will eventually operate 272 mki's built under tot and kits fro russia,their mlu will be done by russia and not to mention the 60 mig-29 we operate/will operate with their mlu when time comes.
Then there are transport helicopters,frigates,corvettes,t-90 tanks(total about 1500 i think eventually),a nuclear sub on lease plus other prospects.


Russia simply has no option but to supply only non offensive small fry to pakistan if it wants future contracts worth 50-60 billions in future.

 

[mike2000]

Poor analysis with boring paragraph.

India has options with any weapon system it needs,we can buy from anyone.
Russia on the other hand has only 2 potential buyers

1)India
2)China

Now china is self sufficient is everything except in aircraft engines, big transport helicopters and transport aircraft(for the time being) so it virtually buys nothing from russia except spare rd-33/93 and al-31f engines which are very small orders indeed with pretty low profit margin.
Chinese are on to j-20 and j-31 so have nothing to do with pakfa.In this situation where will russia go if it ditches india or vice versa??It still needs money,11 billion$ for r&d atleast and its not getting anyricher looking at all the sanctions,falling oil prices and international isolation.



India on the other hand will remain a cash cow for another 2 decades at least as we will eventually operate 272 mki's built under tot and kits fro russia,their mlu will be done by russia and not to mention the 60 mig-29 we operate/will operate with their mlu when time comes.
Then there are transport helicopters,frigates,corvettes,t-90 tanks(total about 1500 i think eventually),a nuclear sub on lease plus other prospects.


Russia simply has no option but to supply only non offensive small fry to pakistan if it wants future contracts worth 50-60 billions in future.

lool funny/ironic as it might sound, i kind of agree with your statement, i dont think its far off from the point i was trying to make.
I said in my earlier comment(just like you just pointed out) that the only way for India to influence Russia's defence exports is by keep on bribing Russia with billions of dollars just like it has been doing for decades now. So yes Russia will keep milking India while transfering as little tech as it can to India in such ventures/deals so it can keep India forever dependent on it for as long as possible(nothing wrong in that though, since any sane country will do the same).

Yes i know India is still favouring Russia with much of its defence deals providing moscow with billions of dollars worth for a long time to come, but most of these deals where sign a while ago, recently India seems to be buying more from the U.S/west/Israel than Russia, and i believe in the coming decades it will be even more so. Since i dont think India will want to remain a midget/dependent on Russia alone. This will be akin to a big country still playing second fiddle/junior partner to a declining power in the coming decades. So yes things will change, as India has no common/mutual interests with Russia these days unlike during the cold war. So your partnerships will last only as long as you are willing to be loyal to Moscow and bribe/provide them with billion of dollars to keep it going, which i dont think is sustainable for a poor country like India which needs this cash/capital to invest in its economy/improve its living standards and into its own defence industry.

On another note, im surprised to see you are rather honest/frank in your views/points even when it means admitting India is a cash cow to Russia, not many members here will be bold enough to admit that when it comes to their country(i dont think your Indian brothers here will be happy with you though). Kudos to that though, i like people who try as much as possible to be impartial in their assessments, i think you are one of the only member on here i have seen doing that(well, apart from me though).

 

[HAIDER]

In a major breakthrough after Russia lifted arms sales embargo to Pakistan earlier this year, Defence Minister Asif said that a “final go ahead” for the purchase of Russian MI-35 gunship helicopters has been given.

“The matter remained under consideration for many months… now we have given Russians final go ahead for the purchase of these helicopters,” Defence Minister Khawaja Asif said.

The minister said that the gunship helicopters would be used in the ongoing war against terrorism by Pakistani security forces.

“Russia has moved up Pakistan in its category B from D for arms sales, which means that Pakistan can now buy weapons from Russian market,” he revealed.

dawn.com

 

[Sugarcane]

… now we have given Russians final go ahead for the purchase of these helicopters,.....

Khwaja sahib gave go ahead to Russians?

 

[farhan_9909]

Only if we could also afford to purchase MI-28

 

[Armstrong]

Khwaja sahib gave go ahead to Russians?

Kiyun sirf Arain ho to hii deals pureiii hoteiii hain ?

Araiaaan nei te Pakistan da ehhh haaal kitaaa ehhh; kuj sochaa tussii agar Butt loak uteiii hukoomat kar raheiii hondeiii teii ajjj Pakistan...Amreeka nuuu Aid dei riyaa hondaa !