Russia ships two unfinished A-50E/I intented for Indian Air Force new AWACS

[sancho]

IAF will ultimately get 5 Phalcons on IL-76s, 6 DRDO AWACS based on A-330, 8 DRDO AEW&C( one for DRDO itself so 7 exactly). That's 19 AWACS and AEW&C.

IAF stated a requirement of 15 x AWACS aircrafts, with 5 x A50 Phalcons + 10 x smaller aircrafts according to former Air Chief Browne. So all they wanted was, the 2 x EMB 145I's they already have on order (the 3rd one will be a test aircraft under DRDO) + 8 additional once, which are cost-effective and fast to induct. Sadly DRDO played the government with their own interests in mind and pushed for 6 x A330 AWACS, of which 2 reportedly are test aircrafts as well. Which brings us at:

5 x A50 Phalcon
2 x EMB 145I
4 x A330I (AWACS India)
=> 11

Leaving at least 4 aircrafts to meet IAF's minimum requirements. The logical choice would be to bridge the gap with 4 more EMB 145I's, but DRDO surely wants MoD to add more AWACS India's to justify the development costs. So lets see if we hamper Indian security more as the trend goes today, by delaying crucial modernisations of the forces, in favour for the industry.

Just one qstn.in emergency situation like war which awacs platform is more handy il76 based one ore AWACS mounted on civilian airliner like a330? In the recent Yemen crisisi we used globmaster instead of civilian airliners where later is having monstrous passenger carrying capacity.

In Yemen we used both, IAF aircrafts as well as Air India civil aircrafts, but that's a different situation, since it's an operation abroad, which depends on where the Aircrafts can land and operated. The AWACS aircrafts on the the otherside, will both operate in the same airspace and in the same manner, the only difference then would possibly be the higher range of the A330 (which needs to be seen though when the final AWACS config is ready) and lower operational costs, but the latter is mainly a factor in peace times, not in war.

 

[#hydra#]

IAF stated a requirement of 15 x AWACS aircrafts, with 5 x A50 Phalcons + 10 x smaller aircrafts according to former Air Chief Browne. So all they wanted was, the 2 x EMB 145I's they already have on order (the 3rd one will be a test aircraft under DRDO) + 8 additional once, which are cost-effective and fast to induct. Sadly DRDO played the government with their own interests in mind and pushed for 6 x A330 AWACS, of which 2 reportedly are test aircrafts as well. Which brings us at:

5 x A50 Phalcon
2 x EMB 145I
4 x A330I (AWACS India)
=> 11

Leaving at least 4 aircrafts to meet IAF's minimum requirements. The logical choice would be to bridge the gap with 4 more EMB 145I's, but DRDO surely wants MoD to add more AWACS India's to justify the development costs. So lets see if we hamper Indian security more as the trend goes today, by delaying crucial modernisations of the forces, in favour for the industry.



In Yemen we used both, IAF aircrafts as well as Air India civil aircrafts, but that's a different situation, since it's an operation abroad, which depends on where the Aircrafts can land and operated. The AWACS aircrafts on the the otherside, will both operate in the same airspace and in the same manner, the only difference then would possibly be the higher range of the A330 (which needs to be seen though when the final AWACS config is ready) and lower operational costs, but the latter is mainly a factor in peace times, not in war.

Is EMB 145 is that much advanced?by wiki data its having only 160*8 TRMMs per panel. Even some of fighters planes having 1000 to 1200 trmms aesa radar( I am just a layman, my concerns may be dumb one).

 

[sancho]

Is EMB 145 is that much advanced?by wiki data its having only 160*8 TRMMs per panel. Even some of fighters planes having 1000 to 1200 trmms aesa radar( I am just a layman, my concerns may be dumb one).

Depends on what the final tests of the radar systems shows, but the IAF seems to be happy with the system and since it's Indian, we DRDO should focus on improving it, rather than developing a complete new AWACS. More advanced AESA modules for example, could improve the performance of the radar. As a complete AWACS it's surely advanced, since it offers not only a modern radar system, but also latest passive detection and com systems. The platform also offers good performance, can be refuelled in the air to extend range or endurance of operations, which is exactly what IAF requires and all that a low cost.

 

[#hydra#]

Depends on what the final tests of the radar systems shows, but the IAF seems to be happy with the system and since it's Indian, we DRDO should focus on improving it, rather than developing a complete new AWACS. More advanced AESA modules for example, could improve the performance of the radar. As a complete AWACS it's surely advanced, since it offers not only a modern radar system, but also latest passive detection and com systems. The platform also offers good performance, can be refuelled in the air to extend range or endurance of operations, which is exactly what IAF requires and all that a low cost.

Tnq

 

[OrionHunter]

Why DRDO has opted Airbus over il76 for next gen AWACS ?too many platforms will make fleet upkeepment more costly.

It seems the IAF loves to get its hands on to any fancy looking toy, whether it meets our strategic imperatives or not!

 

[sancho]

It seems the IAF loves to get its hands on to any fancy looking toy, whether it meets our strategic imperatives or not!

Or IAF does not want to fall further behind PAF and PLAAF, which both already operates more AWACS aircrafts and is not willing to put Indias security only on the hope of DRDO delivering projects in time.
The EMB 145I delivery is already around 4 years behind the plan and as shown, instead of getting more of them, IAF now might be faced with further delays far beyond 2020 (when AWACS India might be ready and in serial production), only because DRDO wants to brag about developing a large AWACS.
This additional order was a badly needed stop gap, to bridge the gap till DRDO is ready to provide IAF with what it needs.

 

[OrionHunter]

Or IAF does not want to fall further behind PAF and PLAAF, which both already operates more AWACS aircrafts and is not willing to put Indias security only on the hope of DRDO delivering projects in time.
The EMB 145I delivery is already around 4 years behind the plan and as shown, instead of getting more of them, IAF now might be faced with further delays far beyond 2020 (when AWACS India might be ready and in serial production), only because DRDO wants to brag about developing a large AWACS.
This additional order was a badly needed stop gap, to bridge the gap till DRDO is ready to provide IAF with what it needs.

Isn't it intriguing that Pakistan gets all they want within a fraction of the time it takes us to even decide? All this hocus pocus of trying to make anything and everything in India is screwing our defence preparedness.

Pakistan with a defence budget one third of India's seems to be way ahead in procurements. I think we need to take a leaf out of their book.

 

[#hydra#]

Isn't it intriguing that Pakistan gets all they want within a fraction of the time it takes us to even decide? All this hocus pocus of trying to make anything and everything in India is screwing our defence preparedness.

Pakistan with a defence budget one third of India's seems to be way ahead in procurements. I think we need to take a leaf out of their book.

Democracy vs military puppet govt

 

[OrionHunter]

Democracy vs military puppet govt

So who wins in the end? A military puppet govt where defence preparedness in concerned!

 

[JaiShriAllahNath]

If DRDO planing for large and more capable radar than Israeli one then its ok and i seriously doubt abt DRDO's capability in this matter,otherwise iam not seeing any advantage for a330 based AWACS.il76 is having a good safety recordsand it is tailor made for operating in war zone with a decent range.

Sitting in ur armchair and blabbering like a fool?

One who doubts self-capabilities, never dream anything. One who never dreams, never takes up any big project.

DRDO has excellence but Modi is busy licking SajjadLone's a$$ and wasting time on anglo-indian corporates(who never invented a patent in life and rely on daddy anglo-english investors).

Modi lacks what Rajiv Gandhi had. RG gave birth to three projects which put India ahead of Somalia/Pakistan, otherwise Modi is same as Nawaj sharif intellect wise.

- LCA project
- Kaveri engine project
- Supercomputer project

Modi is low-level, uneducated karyakarta(worker), he is not qualified to think this much. He depends on "corporate advisers", who are telling him to keep mouth shut on Sunanda pushkar murder, Sonia Gandhi's 20 billion$(it has grown to $30 after Modi came to power) and Ram-temple(making it will bring back lost self-moral of hindu population in UP/Bihar who are converting fast).

 

[Echo_419]

Depends on what the final tests of the radar systems shows, but the IAF seems to be happy with the system and since it's Indian, we DRDO should focus on improving it, rather than developing a complete new AWACS. More advanced AESA modules for example, could improve the performance of the radar. As a complete AWACS it's surely advanced, since it offers not only a modern radar system, but also latest passive detection and com systems. The platform also offers good performance, can be refuelled in the air to extend range or endurance of operations, which is exactly what IAF requires and all that a low cost.

Agreed if the IAF accepts it then it must he good

 

[sancho]

Isn't it intriguing that Pakistan gets all they want within a fraction of the time it takes us to even decide? All this hocus pocus of trying to make anything and everything in India is screwing our defence preparedness.

Well it's not that simple. Pakistan has not only limited funds, but also far more limited access to arms. So they are mainly dependent on what is available from a foreign country and their industries. India today is a step further and can not only demand specific capabilities or customizations (F16IN with AESA, refuelling probe, latest EW capabilities and IRST / A50 Phalcon, Russian platform with Israeli radar), but has access to many different options to cover the requirements. That's an advantage, but also makes the procurement more complicated, since you have more to consider, evaluate and negotiate. Add the slow Indian pace and the lack of efficiency in the MoD and you know why Pakistan is faster on this side.
On the other side we do have the better industrial capabilities, but as long as we can't get the industry on the same page as the forces, we can't speed up things. We could simply order 8 x more EMB 145Is now, with all of them being delivered within this decade and the last few maybe even with upgraded capabilities, which would perfectly suit our defence needs. But with the aim to be world class getting more priority, simple solutions are sadly not enough and the industry prefers to aim higher than needed, which causes delays and higher costs.

 

[#hydra#]

Sitting in ur armchair and blabbering like a fool?

One who doubts self-capabilities, never dream anything. One who never dreams, never takes up any big project.

DRDO has excellence but Modi is busy licking SajjadLone's a$$ and wasting time on anglo-indian corporates(who never invented a patent in life and rely on daddy anglo-english investors).

Modi lacks what Rajiv Gandhi had. RG gave birth to three projects which put India ahead of Somalia/Pakistan, otherwise Modi is same as Nawaj sharif intellect wise.

- LCA project
- Kaveri engine project
- Supercomputer project

Modi is low-level, uneducated karyakarta(worker), he is not qualified to think this much. He depends on "corporate advisers", who are telling him to keep mouth shut on Sunanda pushkar murder, Sonia Gandhi's 20 billion$(it has grown to $30 after Modi came to power) and Ram-temple(making it will bring back lost self-moral of hindu population in UP/Bihar who are converting fast).

Oh gr8 .... Thank u