Russia may put missiles in Kaliningrad if US upgrades nuclear arms in Germany: Report

[vostok]

No.

Aegis ashore: two sites: the first in Romania at Deveselu that was opened in May 2015 (operational may 2016) and the second in Poland in 2018. In 2020, both will get the latest versions of the Aegis BMD software and the latest version of the SM-3.
In 2013, KBR was awarded the Aegis Ashore contract by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE), Europe District to construct the facilities necessary to support Europe's first land-based ballistic missile defense system at Romania's Deveselu Air Base.

On 29 September 2009, the Russian military announced plans to set up an extensive network of Iskander missiles throughout the country as part of the broader military reforms underway. According to General Vladimir Boldyrev (rtd.), Iskander systems would be stationed in every military district in Russia but not in Kaliningrad. On 23 November 2011, Medvedev again said that Russia may deploy Iskander tactical missiles in the Kaliningrad region as part of Russia’s reaction to the United States' reformulated missile shield plans. In December 2013, Russia disclosed that the Iskander missile system had been deployed in the Western Military District. In March 2015, there were reports in Russian media that Russia had deployed Iskander missiles to Kaliningrad. In October 2016, there were again reports that the missile system had been deployed in Kaliningrad. Poland called the situation "very alarming".

US missile defense facilities in Romania are more o less controlled from Crimea. US missile defense facilities in Poland are controlled from Kaliningrad.
That is, if there were no US missile defense systems Eastern Europe - than no sense in Iskander in Kaliningrad.
Initially Medevedev warned US that Russia will deploy missiles in Kaliningrad in response to a missile defense system in the Czech Republic. Czech Republic refused to set objects, but Poland agreed.
For the US, it does not matter where Russian nukes will fall - in Poland or in Czech Republic. But the Europeans should think with their own brains. In the case of aggression Russia without any hesitation will turn half of Europe into a radioactive ashes.

 

[Penguin]

US missile defense facilities in Romania are more o less controlled from Crimea. US missile defense facilities in Poland are controlled from Kaliningrad.
That is, if there were no US missile defense systems Eastern Europe - than no sense in Iskander in Kaliningrad.
Initially Medevedev warned US that Russia will deploy missiles in Kaliningrad in response to a missile defense system in the Czech Republic. Czech Republic refused to set objects, but Poland agreed.
For the US, it does not matter where Russian nukes will fall - in Poland or in Czech Republic. But the Europeans should think with their own brains. In the case of aggression Russia without any hesitation will turn half of Europe into a radioactive ashes.

It doesn't matter what 'controls ' what from where, when you're working on Status 6 (which has no military value, but is merely a doomsday machine aimed to contaminate US coastal areas).

It is not relevant to mention 'abolition of NATO' as there are still a good many reason to maintain this allinance. Unlike the Warsaw pact, which fell apart after Soviet Union dissolution. Eastern European countries elected to join NATO, nobody forced them. That should tell you something.

On 18 September 2009, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin welcomed Obama's plans for missile defense which may include stationing American Aegis armed warships in the Black Sea, as these are likely to be less effective against Russia's missile attacks

There are no Iskander equivalent missiles in Europe that I'm aware of.

 

[vostok]

It doesn't matter what 'controls ' what from where, when you're working on Status 6 (which has no military value, but is merely a doomsday machine aimed to contaminate US coastal areas).

It is not relevant to mention 'abolition of NATO' as there are still a good many reason to maintain this allinance. Unlike the Warsaw pact, which fell apart after Soviet Union dissolution. Eastern European countries elected to join NATO, nobody forced them. That should tell you something.

On 18 September 2009, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin welcomed Obama's plans for missile defense which may include stationing American Aegis armed warships in the Black Sea, as these are likely to be less effective against Russia's missile attacks

There are no Iskander equivalent missiles in Europe that I'm aware of.

Russia did not start nuclear race and Russia did not use nuclear weapons against enemies.
Placement of US ABM facilities in Europe were directed "against Iran" - and now everybody forgot about it, although initially they like to repeat it at each conference. USA do not plan to stop ABM building despite treaty with Iran. Why? You know it. Because it was against Russia from begining.
How would the US react if Russia established a missile defense system in Cuba, and stated that it is against Brazil's nuclear program? I think the reaction would have been very nervous, up to military operation.

 

[Penguin]

Russia did not start nuclear race and Russia did not use nuclear weapons against enemies.
Placement of US ABM facilities in Europe were directed "against Iran" - and now everybody forgot about it, although initially they like to repeat it at each conference. USA do not plan to stop ABM building despite treaty with Iran. Why? You know it. Because it was against Russia from begining.
How would the US react if Russia established a missile defense system in Cuba, and stated that it is against Brazil's nuclear program? I think the reaction would have been very nervous, up to military operation.

Oh please. Not the 'who started the nuclear race' as argument for putting tactical ballistic nuclear missiles in Western Europe ... And as for having used nukes, yes, the US did nuke 2 Japans cities, under very specific and unusual circumstances (end of WW2) and while Soviet Union did not yet have an a-bomb (so we can never tell what SU would have done had it had that capability first). Russia does have a record of actually using Iskander in Eastern Europe.

In April 2007, NATO's European allies called for a NATO missile defence system which would complement the American national missile defense system to protect Europe from missile attacks. (note: ANY missile attack). The system would not affect strategic balance or threaten Russia, as the plan was to base only ten interceptor missiles in Poland. If you look at the pictures of facilities, you see only a single 8-cell VLS with the Aegis ashore. So, with 2 sites, that makes 16 total ready to fire SM-3s. Even if it is 2x or 3x these numbers of cells (i.e. 48 ready fire SM-3), how is that a threat against the might of the Russian nuclear missile forces? Besides, Russia's strategic nuclear forces chief says its new weapons will be capable of "neutralising" any potential missile defences. And it is not that Russia does not have anti-ballistic missiles systems of its own. (Russia has been developing a missile defense shield for several decades to secure strategic military balance with the US. The A-135 anti-ballistic missile system is currently deployed around Moscow. It comprises dozens of interceptor missiles and sophisticated early warning radars. https://www.rt.com/news/347577-russia-missile-defense-test/)

Romania ant Poland are actually good positions to 'catch' long range Iranian missiles, if any.

 

[Penguin]

Note the numbers!

 

[vostok]

How did the US missile defense appear in Europe? How did it haapened the concept of mutual deterrence was threatened?
Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty
The Treaty limited only ABMs capable of defending against "strategic ballistic missiles", without attempting to define "strategic". It was understood that both ICBMs and SLBMs are obviously "strategic".[7] Both countries did not intend to stop the development of counter-tactical ABMs. The topic became disputable as soon as most potent counter-tactical ABMs started to be capable of shooting down SLBMs (SLBMs naturally tend to be much slower than ICBMs), nevertheless both sides continued counter-tactical ABM development.
Although the Soviet Union ceased to exist in December 1991, in the view of the U.S. Department of State, the treaty continued in force.[13] An additional memorandum of understanding was prepared in 1997, establishing Belarus, Kazakhstan, the Russian Federation, and Ukraine as successor states to the Soviet Union, for the purposes of the treaty.
On December 13, 2001, George W. Bush gave Russia notice of the United States' withdrawal from the treaty, in accordance with the clause that required six months' notice before terminating the pact—the first time in recent history that the United States has withdrawn from a major international arms treaty.[14] This led to the eventual creation of the American Missile Defense Agency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ballistic_Missile_Treaty
Perhaps the United States, at least, keep their weapons only in the United States, like all other countries?

Nope. List of countries, where US stated nuclear weapons

But for what purpose USA build anti-ballistic forces in Europe? Let's listen to misters Presidents:
US President Barack Obama has cancelled plans to station an anti-ballistic missile system in Poland and the Czech Republic.

Former US President George W Bush had signed deals to base interceptor missiles in Poland and a radar in the Czech Republic.

President Bush planned it as part of a missile defence shield to counter what it described as threats from rogue states such as Iran.
..
President Obama now says that any threat from Iran can be countered by shorter-range systems.
So - it is built against Russia from start? Why don't you say so?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6720153.stm
The US and NATO have refused to give guarantees the European missile defense not directed against Russia
http://politrussia.com/news/ssha-i-nato-762/
I have two suggestions how to give Russia the opportunity to remove the "Iskander" from Kaliningrad. First - USA remove all nuclear forces from Europe and Turkey. Second - US stops the construction of missile defense in Euro and we sign new agreement about the limitation of missile defense.
Otherwise - we have nothing to talk about.
Some photo for you - nuclear atacks of US on Japan, 1945.

Think about it. There will be no nukes on US or Russia soil. But Europe? Who knows...

 

[Penguin]

How did the US missile defense appear in Europe? How did it haapened the concept of mutual deterrence was threatened?

Interesting, but we were discussing tactical ballistic (potentially (or not so potentially) nuclear tipped) missiles being stationed in Kaliningrad.

But for what purpose USA build anti-ballistic forces in Europe? Let's listen to misters Presidents:
US President Barack Obama has cancelled plans to station an anti-ballistic missile system in Poland and the Czech Republic.

There are facilities now in Poland and Romania

So - it is built against Russia from start? Why don't you say so?

Had you actually read an earlier quote of mine, which dealt with EU policy, you would not be asking this question as the asnwer was already given

I have two suggestions how to give Russia the opportunity to remove the "Iskander" from Kaliningrad. First - USA remove all nuclear forces from Europe and Turkey. Second - US stops the construction of missile defense in Euro and we sign new agreement about the limitation of missile defense.
Otherwise - we have nothing to talk about

Europe is not going to sit under a Russian ballistic missile thread passively, like Taiwan with the Chinese. Stop sabre rattling. The small Baltic States are no thread to Russia. Nor are the three Nordic countries. Yet Russia feels a need to threaten them in a variety of ways. Accept the Soviet empire is GONE and not coming back.

Some photo for you - nuclear atacks of US on Japan, 1945.

Oh my, I never seen those before. What is this, another veiled threat? Who do you think you are talking to?

Think about it. There will be no nukes on US or Russia soil. But Europe? Who knows...

Precisely this sentence is why there should be BMD in Europe, preferably independent of US. Thanks for making that perfectly clear.

There is no threat to Russia (just look at the map, man), there are threats to Western Europe.

At Volkel there are (have been for decades, from before the SOviet collapse) 22 B61 nuclear bombs. Delivery of these 50 kT is via F-16.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ntless-US-nuclear-bombs-at-Dutch-airbase.html

These 1960s legacy bombs (not smart, not stand-off, not stealthy) are not quite comparable with e.g. SS-25 / RT-2PM Topol(Single 800 kt warhead), or SS-27 I would say. Or modern tactical ballistic missiles (which are not employed by Western Europe countries, the NATO exceptions being Turkey, Greece and US all with ATACMS and Turkey with some of their own systems).

Anyway, the Cold war legacy weapons are in no way related to anti-ballistic missile defences, since not missile based. And we all know Russia employs the most and best surface to air missile systems, right? Say the Russian media. S-300, S-400, S-500, modernized Buk etc. Against which our old F-16 stand little chance, right?

 

[vostok]

Interesting, but we were discussing tactical ballistic (potentially (or not so potentially) nuclear tipped) missiles being stationed in Kaliningrad.


There are facilities now in Poland and Romania


Precisely this sentence is why there should be BMD in Europe, preferably independent of US. Thanks for making that perfectly clear.

There is no threat to Russia (just look at the map, man), there are threats to Western Europe.

At Volkel there are (have been for decades, from before the SOviet collapse) 22 B61 nuclear bombs. Delivery of these 50 kT is via F-16.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ntless-US-nuclear-bombs-at-Dutch-airbase.html

These 1960s legacy bombs (not smart, not stand-off, not stealthy) are not quite comparable with e.g. SS-25 / RT-2PM Topol(Single 800 kt warhead), or SS-27 I would say. Or modern tactical ballistic missiles (which are not employed by Western Europe countries, the NATO exceptions being Turkey, Greece and US all with ATACMS and Turkey with some of their own systems).

Anyway, the Cold war legacy weapons are in no way related to anti-ballistic missile defences, since not missile based. And we all know Russia employs the most and best surface to air missile systems, right? Say the Russian media. S-300, S-400, S-500, modernized Buk etc. Against which our old F-16 stand little chance, right?

It seems that Europe is no longer subject of world politics, but only object. America plays in your territory like she wants - locate nuclear weapons, build missile defense facilities.
Russia many times offered to work together to protect Europe against missle threats from Iran or North Korea. They rejected. Russia requested many times to confirm legally that the missile defense facilities are not directed against Russia. They rejected again. They say that these objects are built against Iran. They brazenly lied to us just in the face.
Putin said recently:
"This is not a defensive system, it is part of the US strategic potential, which has been taken on the periphery"
"Launchers in Poland can be used for placing intermediate-range and short-range missiles."
You should be aware that in contrast to the Russians and Europeans - Americans do not live in Europe. And if Russia will be forced to attack US targets in Europe - for the US, it does not really matter. But for you it will be the eternal end. And for us - it will be real ecological threat.

 

[Penguin]

It seems that Europe is no longer subject of world politics, but only object. America plays in your territory like she wants - locate nuclear weapons, build missile defense facilities.
Russia many times offered to work together to protect Europe against missle threats from Iran or North Korea. They rejected. Russia requested many times to confirm legally that the missile defense facilities are not directed against Russia. They rejected again. They say that these objects are built against Iran. They brazenly lied to us just in the face.
Putin said recently:
"This is not a defensive system, it is part of the US strategic potential, which has been taken on the periphery"
"Launchers in Poland can be used for placing intermediate-range and short-range missiles."
You should be aware that in contrast to the Russians and Europeans - Americans do not live in Europe. And if Russia will be forced to attack US targets in Europe - for the US, it does not really matter. But for you it will be the eternal end. And for us - it will be real ecological threat.

It seems that's BS. In 2015, China became the world's largest economy for the first time in modern history. It produced $19.5 trillion in economic output. The European Union (EU) was in second place, producing $19.1 trillion. Together, China and the EU generate 33.9% of the world's economic output of $113.7 trillion. The United States fell to third place, producing $17.9 trillion. The world's three largest economies combined produced $56.5 trillion.

 

[Hindustani78]

http://tass.com/defense/918614

The Russian Armed Forces keep getting more advanced multi-role jet fighters Sukhoi-30SM.
Naval aviation units in the Baltic are to get them next year. It is expected that under the effective defense contract Russia’s Aerospace Force will get more than 30 planes of this type by 2018.

 

[Hindustani78]

US missile defense facilities in Romania are more o less controlled from Crimea. US missile defense facilities in Poland are controlled from Kaliningrad.
That is, if there were no US missile defense systems Eastern Europe - than no sense in Iskander in Kaliningrad.
Initially Medevedev warned US that Russia will deploy missiles in Kaliningrad in response to a missile defense system in the Czech Republic. Czech Republic refused to set objects, but Poland agreed.
For the US, it does not matter where Russian nukes will fall - in Poland or in Czech Republic. But the Europeans should think with their own brains. In the case of aggression Russia without any hesitation will turn half of Europe into a radioactive ashes.

NATO membership in 2004, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania and testing the resolve of NATO.Kaliningrad is part of Russia’s Western Military District, and approximately 25,000 Russian soldiers and security personnel are stationed there.

https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/putin-says-missiles-not-yet-deployed-to-kaliningrad-region-30655
According to Moscow Times
2013 Article .

Colonel General Sergei Karakayev, the chief of the military's Strategic Rocket Forces, said in remarks carried by Russian news agencies on Wednesday that the new weapon would be much easier to camouflage than its predecessor. The Soviet-designed railway missiles were scrapped in 2005.

President Vladimir Putin sought to reassure the West about Russia's military movements on Thursday, saying Moscow had not yet decided whether to deploy Iskander missiles near NATO nations in the western exclave of Kaliningrad.

Iskander missiles were first test fired in 1996.The Iskander was developed in the 1990s to replace the decommissioned OTR-23 Oka (Nato: SS-23) missile system.

Iskander-K is the latest variant in the Iskander series of missiles. The missile system is equipped with R-500 cruise missile. It was first test fired from the mobile Iskander platform in May 2007. It attained a speed of approximately 250m a second at altitudes of 100m.

 

[Hindustani78]

http://tass.com/defense/919115
December 13, 18:54 UTC+3


KALININGRAD, December 13. /TASS/. The Baltic Fleet’s airbase in the Kaliningrad Region has received the first multirole fighter Sukhoi-30SM, the fleet’s spokesman Roman Martov has said.

"The first Sukhoi-30SM has made a landing at the airdrome in Chernyakhovsk to have joined a squadron of the Baltic Fleet’s aviation group," he said.

The plane arrived from an aircraft-building plant in Irkutsk.

Several more fighters of that type will become organic to the Baltic Sea Fleet’s aviation in 2017.

The first Sukhoi-30SM crews have undergone retraining at a center in Yeisk. Now they will be able to share experience with their colleagues on site.

The Sukhoi-30SM is the latest upgraded configuration of the multirole heavy fighter Sukhoi-30 (generation 4+). It boasts high maneuverability, a phased array antenna radar, thrust vector control, and front horizontal stabilizers. It is capable of carrying advanced high accuracy weapons (both air-to-air and air-to-surface types).

The Sukhoi-30SM can fly up to 3,000 kilometers without refueling and extra tanks.

 

[vostok]

First Su-30SM in Kaliningrad region

 

[Hindustani78]

https://sputniknews.com/military/201702071050432191-baltic-fleet-s-400-drills/

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — The Russian Baltic Fleet has carried out air defense drills in the Kaliningrad region using the latest S-400 missile systems, Baltic Fleet spokesman Capt. 1st Rank Roman Martov said Tuesday.

"The air defense units of the Baltic Fleet have conducted drills in the Kaliningrad region, in which the crews of S-400 Triumf air defense systems have countered a massive attack of the simulated enemy," Martov told reporters.

He added that over 30 targets have been destroyed during the drills.

S-400 Triumf (NATO reporting name SA-21 Growler) is Russia's most advanced surface-to-air missile system that has a range of 400 kilometers (248 miles) and is capable of tracking and destroying all existing aerial targets, including ballistic and cruise missiles.

http://tass.com/defense/929518
KALININGRAD, February 7. /TASS/. The combat crews of S-400 Triumf antiaircraft missile systems of the Baltic Fleet’s air defense large unit repelled a notional enemy’s massive missile and air strike in drills, Fleet spokesman Roman Martov told TASS on Tuesday.

"Under the drills’ plan, the fleet’s radar reconnaissance has practiced detecting a notional enemy’s air attack in the designated area of responsibility and aiming the S-400 Triumf antiaircraft missile system to destroy the targets detected. The combat crews of the Pantsyr-S1 antiaircraft missile/gun system provided cover for the S-400 complexes," Martov said.

During the drills, the combat crews destroyed over 30 notional air targets. After repelling the attacks, the missile systems made a march to a new positioning area under the cover of Pantsyr-S1 complexes, the Fleet’s spokesman said.

 

[Hindustani78]

Air Cushion small landing ship Mordovia in Kaliningrad