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Russia Invades Eastern Ukraine

I would say it is far better to have such large, pro-Russia loyalists as citizens of these other countries, where they can be leveraged to influence local politics, than to have them within Russia itself.

This military move also works against Russia by turning public opinion in Eastern Europe against Russia. It makes the job of the Western-backed rulers easier.
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West will normally refers to Russia only if it is weak and falling apart. And the West will do anything to prevent the reunification of Russia / USSR. Therefore, they will constantly hold the "orange revolutions", "Nazi coups" and so on. Ukraine has to be divided. The eastern part or will be part of Russia or become allied independence state, member of the Custom and the Eurasian Union. And the rest of the Ukraine must remain neutral. Temporarily, of course. Because in a few years it will also become part of the Eurasian Union. Exept Galicia - this stinking hotbed of Nazism, sectarianism and russophobia
 
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West will normally refers to Russia only if it is weak and falling apart. And the West will do anything to prevent the reunification of Russia / USSR. Therefore, they will constantly hold the "orange revolutions", "Nazi coups" and so on. Ukraine has to be divided. The eastern part or will be part of Russia or become allied independence state, member of the Custom and the Eurasian Union. And the rest of the Ukraine must remain neutral.

The smart way to create a union is for Russia to stage its own "popular" revolutions.

That is where the West, with a long tradition of democratic institutions, excels: western puppeteers are experts at manipulating the masses -- their own or in another country.

It's the difference between the guy who gets the girl by smooth talking v/s the guy who has to pay her or use other coercion. The smooth talker may be just as manipulative and selfish, but the girl would never know it.
 
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The smart way to create a union is for Russia to stage its own "popular" revolutions.

That is where the West, with a long tradition of democratic institutions, excels: western puppeteers are experts at manipulating the masses -- their own or in another country.

It's the difference between the guy who gets the girl by smooth talking v/s the guy who has to pay her or use other coercion. The smooth talker may be just as manipulative and selfish, but the girl would never know it.
The USSR did that. In the former USSR, Russia can solve it's problems without manual revolutions. This can be useful in the future when Russia will help locals to liberate Europe from the U.S. occupation.
 
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I believe Putin has been played by the US.

This was a masterstroke by the US, and it puts Europe and Russia almost back to 1968.

This is rather interesting reading - could you please describe how this is US masterstroke? US is rather grasping for air in region after region with strategic failures.

Asia pivot in tatter
Syria is a lost case
Israel is taunting US
India has taken US for deceptive ride
Iran sanction with Russian $3billon/month oil for goods purchase put US sanction regime to shame
Engineered revolution in Ukraine gone against US every way possible.

I am looking for US masterstroke.....
 
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This is rather interesting reading - could you please describe how this is US masterstroke? US is rather grasping for air in region after region with strategic failures.

Asia pivot in tatter
Syria is a lost case
Israel is taunting US
India has taken US for deceptive ride
Iran sanction with Russian $3billon/month oil for goods purchase put US sanction regime to shame
Engineered revolution in Ukraine gone against US every way possible.

I am looking for US masterstroke.....

I was talking about the European situation only, not the Asia pivot.

EU and Russia were improving their relations and the Cold War was all but forgotten. With these new developments, the mistrust between EU and Russia has been heightened. It also puts Western Europe in a difficult position with the East European countries. If the EU wants to resume normal relations with Russia, it will have to pretend Ukraine never happened. But this will not sit well with the East European countries, and they will feel they are less-than-equal to the West European countries.

All in all, this has created a lot of mistrust all around within Europe. Since both the EU and Russia are potential challengers to US domination, any mutual mistrust between them helps the US.
 
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I was talking about the European situation only, not the Asia pivot.

EU and Russia were improving their relations and the Cold War was all but forgotten. With these new developments, the mistrust between EU and Russia has been heightened. It also puts Western Europe in a difficult position with the East European countries. If the EU wants to resume normal relations with Russia, it will have to pretend Ukraine never happened. But this will not sit well with the East European countries, and they will feel they are less-than-equal to the West European countries.

All in all, this has created a lot of mistrust all around within Europe. Since both the EU and Russia are potential challengers to US domination, any mutual mistrust between them helps the US.

Got it, psychological level there must be some impact and fear of Russian intention. But then again, contemporary relation has major financial and energy components and in that Russia is key player. That is why Germany outright rejected the notion of economic sanction. Besides, eastern European countries joined EU, their economic and immigration experience with EU are not that great. All in all, EU attraction has been faded even for countries like Greece, Spain.

As you mentioned US may try to gain some ground by reflecting Russia as bad guy. But at the end of the day people expect to see what US is and will be doing as a good guy. In that math US score is dismal. In case of Ukraine US offered $1 billion - that does not buy good guy image for bankrupt nation like Ukraine, which needs more than $35 billion.

Things are fluid, US trying to tilt geo political plate to west but they dont have enough weight. Let's see...
 
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Got it, psychological level there must be some impact and fear of Russian intention. But then again, contemporary relation has major financial and energy components and in that Russia is key player. That is why Germany outright rejected the notion of economic sanction. Besides, eastern European countries joined EU, their economic and immigration experience with EU are not that great. All in all, EU attraction has been faded even for countries like Greece, Spain.

As you mentioned US may try to gain some ground by reflecting Russia as bad guy. But at the end of the day people expect to see what US is and will be doing as a good guy. In that math US score is dismal. In case of Ukraine US offered $1 billion - that does not buy good guy image for bankrupt nation like Ukraine, which needs more than $35 billion.

Things are fluid, US trying to tilt geo political plate to west but they dont have enough weight. Let's see...

Whatever remains of Ukraine will be very angry and very anti-Russia. They may be angry at the West also, for not helping them, but that anger won't be 1/10th of their anger against Russia.

At the end of the day, everyone understands that the US will not start WW3 to save Ukraine.

The US has achieved its goal to create a strongly anti-Russia country right at Russia's doorsteps. All that remains is to throw a little money to stabilize the country and, for a $15 trillion/year economy, a few billion $ here and there is no big deal.
 
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Got it, psychological level there must be some impact and fear of Russian intention. But then again, contemporary relation has major financial and energy components and in that Russia is key player. That is why Germany outright rejected the notion of economic sanction. Besides, eastern European countries joined EU, their economic and immigration experience with EU are not that great. All in all, EU attraction has been faded even for countries like Greece, Spain.

As you mentioned US may try to gain some ground by reflecting Russia as bad guy. But at the end of the day people expect to see what US is and will be doing as a good guy. In that math US score is dismal. In case of Ukraine US offered $1 billion - that does not buy good guy image for bankrupt nation like Ukraine, which needs more than $35 billion.

Things are fluid, US trying to tilt geo political plate to west but they dont have enough weight. Let's see...


The US won because they effectively paralysed the EU and in the process created a giant bloc against Russia .The Eastern European nations may not have the economic and political clout of their Western counterparts within the EU but we do have voting and veto power.If Western nations don't act against Russia than the EU as a project is dead because we will grind to a halt any development from now on.The big partners have a choice now:either act against Russia or see the EU fail as we will undermine it if our concerns are not adressed and side with the Americans from now on.

I really don't think that Westerners want to see their pet project fail after all these years ,it's time to put their money behind the motto "united we stand,divided we fall" and i think they will in the end.
 
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Deadly clashes at Ukraine port base as leaders meet

Three people were killed in a raid on a base in eastern Ukraine overnight, the country's interior minister says, as the US, Russia, the EU and Ukraine begin crisis talks in Geneva.
The three pro-Russian separatists were killed in a clash with Ukrainian forces in Mariupol, Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said on Facebook.
The Geneva meeting is the first such gathering since the crisis escalated.
The West says Russia is aiding the pro-Russian activists occupying buildings.
Tensions escalated last month when Russia annexed Crimea, causing international outrage. Unrest later spread to Donetsk region, another mainly Russian-speaking area. It is Europe's worst crisis since the Cold War.
About 300 separatists attacked a military unit in Mariupol near the Azov Sea, throwing petrol bombs. Troops opened fire, killing three, Mr Avakov said.
Reinforcements
The operation is continuing - Ukraine has sent in reinforcements including helicopters. There was no independent confirmation of his statement.
According to Mr Avakov, 13 of the attackers were wounded and so far 63 have been detained. He said none of the interior ministry troops had been killed.
It is the heaviest casualty toll in any single incident so far in eastern Ukraine.
Mariupol is in the far south of Donetsk region, where separatists have seized dozens of official buildings.
Ukrainian SBU special forces have gone to the aid of the interior ministry troops in Mariupol and armoured vehicles have gone into the city from places nearby, Ukraine's Unian news agency reports.
Retreating separatists reportedly wounded two passers-by, set a minibus ablaze and also set fire to a building next to the military garrison.
"Through joint efforts by the armed police and national guard the attacking gang was dispersed after a short battle, most of them were cornered and disarmed," Mr Avakov said.
"Because it was such an aggressive attack on a military unit - an interior ministry group - we decided to reinforce them with Omega special forces. Helicopters have been deployed."
According to a report on Russia's state-run Vesti TV news, unarmed local protesters tried to talk to the Ukrainian troops but were met with gunfire. Quoting unnamed Mariupol residents, the TV channel said shots were also fired at first-aid paramedics.
Some locals say Ukrainian Right Sector ultra-nationalists have joined Kiev's forces in Mariupol, while separatists have erected street barricades, the TV reports.

US accuses Russia

US President Barack Obama has warned Russia against support for further action by armed pro-Russian groups.
"What I have said consistently is that each time Russia takes these kinds of steps that are designed to destabilise Ukraine and violate their sovereignty, that there are going to be consequences," he said.
Reports say that the White House is considering a package of non-lethal aid for the Ukrainian military. This may include clothing and medical supplies.
Meanwhile, Ukraine's military operation against separatists has hit obstacles.
Called an "anti-terrorist" operation by the Kiev government, it started on Tuesday and is designed to dislodge pro-Russia gunmen from local authority buildings in a swathe of cities and towns in eastern Ukraine.
Pro-Russian activists want referendums on greater autonomy for the south-east or the right to join the Russian Federation.
But in several districts, Ukrainian troops met vehement opposition on Wednesday from pro-Russia supporters, who object to the new government in Kiev.
In the city of Kramatorsk, six military vehicles were commandeered on Wednesday by gunmen, who disarmed the Ukrainian soldiers and sent some of them home on buses.

BBC News - Deadly clashes at Ukraine port base as leaders meet

Watch the videos, they are eye opening. Presented by BBC.
 
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Deadly clashes at Ukraine port base as leaders meet

Three people were killed in a raid on a base in eastern Ukraine overnight, the country's interior minister says, as the US, Russia, the EU and Ukraine begin crisis talks in Geneva.
The three pro-Russian separatists were killed in a clash with Ukrainian forces in Mariupol, Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said on Facebook.
The Geneva meeting is the first such gathering since the crisis escalated.
The West says Russia is aiding the pro-Russian activists occupying buildings.
Tensions escalated last month when Russia annexed Crimea, causing international outrage. Unrest later spread to Donetsk region, another mainly Russian-speaking area. It is Europe's worst crisis since the Cold War.
About 300 separatists attacked a military unit in Mariupol near the Azov Sea, throwing petrol bombs. Troops opened fire, killing three, Mr Avakov said.
Reinforcements
The operation is continuing - Ukraine has sent in reinforcements including helicopters. There was no independent confirmation of his statement.
According to Mr Avakov, 13 of the attackers were wounded and so far 63 have been detained. He said none of the interior ministry troops had been killed.
It is the heaviest casualty toll in any single incident so far in eastern Ukraine.
Mariupol is in the far south of Donetsk region, where separatists have seized dozens of official buildings.
Ukrainian SBU special forces have gone to the aid of the interior ministry troops in Mariupol and armoured vehicles have gone into the city from places nearby, Ukraine's Unian news agency reports.
Retreating separatists reportedly wounded two passers-by, set a minibus ablaze and also set fire to a building next to the military garrison.
"Through joint efforts by the armed police and national guard the attacking gang was dispersed after a short battle, most of them were cornered and disarmed," Mr Avakov said.
"Because it was such an aggressive attack on a military unit - an interior ministry group - we decided to reinforce them with Omega special forces. Helicopters have been deployed."
According to a report on Russia's state-run Vesti TV news, unarmed local protesters tried to talk to the Ukrainian troops but were met with gunfire. Quoting unnamed Mariupol residents, the TV channel said shots were also fired at first-aid paramedics.
Some locals say Ukrainian Right Sector ultra-nationalists have joined Kiev's forces in Mariupol, while separatists have erected street barricades, the TV reports.

US accuses Russia

US President Barack Obama has warned Russia against support for further action by armed pro-Russian groups.
"What I have said consistently is that each time Russia takes these kinds of steps that are designed to destabilise Ukraine and violate their sovereignty, that there are going to be consequences," he said.
Reports say that the White House is considering a package of non-lethal aid for the Ukrainian military. This may include clothing and medical supplies.
Meanwhile, Ukraine's military operation against separatists has hit obstacles.
Called an "anti-terrorist" operation by the Kiev government, it started on Tuesday and is designed to dislodge pro-Russia gunmen from local authority buildings in a swathe of cities and towns in eastern Ukraine.
Pro-Russian activists want referendums on greater autonomy for the south-east or the right to join the Russian Federation.
But in several districts, Ukrainian troops met vehement opposition on Wednesday from pro-Russia supporters, who object to the new government in Kiev.
In the city of Kramatorsk, six military vehicles were commandeered on Wednesday by gunmen, who disarmed the Ukrainian soldiers and sent some of them home on buses.

BBC News - Deadly clashes at Ukraine port base as leaders meet

Watch the videos, they are eye opening. Presented by BBC.

This information is confirmed.Aparently the base was defended by Ukrainian National Guard which unlike some Ukr regulars the other day opened fire and repelled the terorists.

Looks like it's harder for russian terorists to storm Army facilities without using screaming histerical russian old hags as human meat shields.
 
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Good thinking. Finally someone who can balance the one-sided global strikes on every damn country. I really hope the locals of eastern Ukraine get what they want.
 
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This information is confirmed.Aparently the base was defended by Ukrainian National Guard which unlike some Ukr regulars the other day opened fire and repelled the terorists.

Looks like it's harder for russian terorists to storm Army facilities without using screaming histerical russian old hags as human meat shields.

Did you see the videos in the BBC report.
 
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Whatever remains of Ukraine will be very angry and very anti-Russia. They may be angry at the West also, for not helping them, but that anger won't be 1/10th of their anger against Russia.

At the end of the day, everyone understands that the US will not start WW3 to save Ukraine.

The US has achieved its goal to create a strongly anti-Russia country right at Russia's doorsteps. All that remains is to throw a little money to stabilize the country and, for a $15 trillion/year economy, a few billion $ here and there is no big deal.

I'm also of the opinion that's its a brilliant move by USA. They split the UE and effectively buried any notion of a German-Russia cooperation, all the while wining Ukraine (or parts of it) on their side for the next couple of generations. And that's exactly at Russia's door step.
They are forcing the UE to take steps towards putting Russia in a economical and political corner by using the Eastern countries. Well played...well played.. and If I'm guessing right, more moves will come after the May Ukrainian elections.
 
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Their is only one message in this crisis for the world either you try your best to remain really huge and strong military force with latest weapons or you are sitting duck any one when ever want will make you history so the choice is yours
 
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Nai yaar.
Russian defence industry cannot survive without investment.its a win-win proposition
Russia has more than enough natural resources without annexing Ukraine. I am not sure the negatives outweigh any additional resources from new territories.



I would say it is far better to have such large, pro-Russia loyalists as citizens of these other countries, where they can be leveraged to influence local politics, than to have them within Russia itself.

This military move also works against Russia by turning public opinion in Eastern Europe against Russia. It makes the job of the Western-backed rulers easier.



Yes, I also didn't think Putin would move beyond Crimea. Crimea provides strategic benefits (the port), but eastern Ukraine doesn't provide anything special. Russia is more than capable of recreating any industrial infrastructure needed within Russia proper.

As for US overreach, I don't think that is the case. The US is shifting its focus to Asia Pacific, and it expects the EU to start doing some of the heavy lifting for its own protection. The EU is not like ASEAN which is no match for China by itself.



Russia can recreate any needed industry. They have all the land and all the resources and all the knowledge needed for it.
It is always easy to steal
& not to forget millions of skilled people as added bonus
 
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