Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets

[oct605032048]

China will bear all the humiliation and Punic faith from our 'big brother' because we are not as capable as we should in the field of engine production.

This is not the first lesson we learned in the co-operations with Russia but I think it is still the best encouragement for China's aviation and other industries.

 

[Guynextdoor]

JF17 is facing second such incident.

First France and Now Russia is refusing the parts.

However, i think the issue can be resolved. to me it seems to be a temporary development.

Russia had blocked the engines earlier as well.. But agreed later on..

So its still premature to comment and conclude.

Even if the project is pushed back by 4-5 years, it would have efectively lost it's utility. When we'll be edging closer to Pak Fa, these guys will just about start to induct their so called mainline figherjet on an industrial scale. Thunder's already towards mid-life/post midlife stage in this battle theatre. How many delays can it take? Can't take on Su, MMRCA, Pak Fa, Mig 29...hell even LCA will be giving it a wild time....what is it's utility?

 

[RescueRanger]

Even if the project is pushed back by 4-5 years, it would have efectively lost it's utility. When we'll be edging closer to Pak Fa, these guys will just about start to induct their so called mainline figherjet on an industrial scale. Thunder's already towards mid-life/post midlife stage in this battle theatre. How many delays can it take? Can't take on Su, MMRCA, Pak Fa, Mig 29...hell even LCA will be giving it a wild time....what is it's utility?

And i suppose the LCA never had any set-backs?

As for utility refer to the JF17 thread.


---------- Post added at 06:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 PM ----------

I don't understand what is made with Joint Venture.

Looks to me is just a Joint Assemble of fighter parts.

Refer to the JF17 thread in military aviation. And please stop posting nonsensical statements.

Regards.

 

[Guynextdoor]

China will bear all the humiliation and Punic faith from our 'big brother' because we are not as capable as we should in the field of engine production.

This is not the first lesson we learned in the co-operations with Russia but I think it is still the best encouragement for China's aviation and other industries.

I have rarely seen 'big brother' directly hurting you. They've given you what u want. But they won't stand by and watch you take away their market, especially when one of your prime motivations is related to foreign policy (kooky efforts to arm & prop up pak). They've gotta take care of their industry and look at one of their top customers (India). Why would they jeopradize their relationship with us who are buying everything from Su 30 to Pak Fa to Mig 29K to Submarines- for the sake of some 100 engines??? The engines are EXPENDABLE when compared to the relationship (even purely business one) with us.

 

[Aslan]

Even if the project is pushed back by 4-5 years, it would have efectively lost it's utility. When we'll be edging closer to Pak Fa, these guys will just about start to induct their so called mainline figherjet on an industrial scale. Thunder's already towards mid-life/post midlife stage in this battle theatre. How many delays can it take? Can't take on Su, MMRCA, Pak Fa, Mig 29...hell even LCA will be giving it a wild time....what is it's utility?

 

[Guynextdoor]

And i suppose the LCA never had any set-backs?

As for utility refer to the JF17 thread.


---------- Post added at 06:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 PM ----------



Refer to the JF17 thread in military aviation. And please stop posting nonsensical statements.

Regards.

LCA is our point defence fighter and JF 17 is supposed to be your frontline jet (YOUR STATEMENT), you do the math, if Pak FA were truly f***ed, would we be in more trouble or if LCA were?

 

[Crypto]

Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets​

Russia has blocked the sale of 100 RD-93 engines to China for FC-1, the joint Sino-Pak fighter, which could emerge as a rival for its MiG-29 fighter in the global markets, according to a report today.

"The new contract with China for the sale of 100 RD-93 engines has not been signed," Kommersant reported quoting its sources in the military-industrial complex.

The deal for the supply of second batch of 100 RD-93 manufactured by Moscow-based Chernyshev Machine building Plant for FC-1 (Pakistani version JF-17) was to be signed with China back in May, however, CEO of RAC MiG and Sukhoi Aircraft Holding Mikhail Pogosyan has torpedoed it, Kommersant business daily reported.

"One of the sources confirmed that Pogosyan has virtually blocked the deal with China by writing to the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) and Rosoboronexport (ROE) state arms exporter that FC-1 is a direct rival of Russian MiG-29 fighters in several foreign markets," the daily writes noting that Russian and Chinese fighters are in the race for an Egyptian contract.

"I am not against the re-export of individual technologies, but it should be done in agreement with the producers of finished-product, so that this re-export does not damage their interests," Pogosyan told Kommersant.

"Re-export is allowed by the government decision and we don't have a practice of consulting producers of finished products.

Under the inter-governmental bilateral agreement in November 2007 China was allowed to re-export RD-93 as part of FC-1 fighter to Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia and Algeria," press service of state arms exporting monopoly ROE was quoted as saying by the daily.

The Kommersant reminds that Chernyshev Plant a part of United Engine Corporation has supplied 100 RD-93 engines to China under the USD 238 million deal signed in 2005.

A framework agreement for the sale of 500 such engines for the Sino-Pak joint fighter was also signed at that time and Beijing was ready to buy up to 1,000 engines in over USD 3 billion, if Russia agreed to offer its modernised version with greater thrust.

Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets- Hindustan Times

Interesting that Russia considers JF17 a direct competitor of Mig 29 and at the same time they call it inferior! If its inferior than how it is a direct competitor?

The Russian article says JF17 cost $10 million which is wrong - the cost is between $15m-$17m a piece for Pakistan who invested in JV - price for export will be slightly different but not $10m.

The move is lead by Sukhoi and Mig who dont want to see China as emerging arm exporter selling same quality aircrafts for $20m which Russia is selling for around $35. There are quite a few countries who showed interest in Thunder due to its lower price tag and competitive BVR platform. From Russian point of view its a bid to stop China as if Thunder proves a successful export, Russia is going to loose lots of $$ in the long run not just because of Thunder but other Jets and defense programs, that will follow thus making China a viable Defense supplier for developing countries.


The article explains that report has been submitted to FSMTC, i think final decision is probably going to be by the President/Defence minister. In the past we had similar situation and the sale was actually blocked but than overruled by Vladimir Putin! So lets see what will be the outcome this time.

And for the people who are talking about piracy and copying, the article clearly indicates China is allowed to re-export engine in FC1 to nominated countries as per Nov 2007 agreement.

China has already received first batch of RD-93s (100 engines) that can power initial 100 Thunders and i personally wanted to see WS-13 after the first 50 thunders.

 

[Nahraf]

The lesson for Pakistan is to develop its own aircraft industry. All parts of JF-17 should be built in Pakistan with transfer of technology and licenses. The WS-13 production line should also be established in Pakistan.

 

[RescueRanger]

LCA is our point defence fighter and JF 17 is supposed to be your frontline jet (YOUR STATEMENT), you do the math, if Pak FA were truly f***ed, would we be in more trouble or if LCA were?

Don't bring Pak FA into this. We are talking about LCA and JF17, both are being made for an "indigenous" capacity building ability to produce, induct and sell fighters.

Remember Arjun... Everything has setbacks my friend, accept and move on! Here is some hajmola.

Regards,

 

[oct605032048]

yes, it is hurting.

because they gave what we want for what they want, but sometimes, when they got they want they have other ideas than kept their word.

who said the Egyptian market 'belongs' to Russia?(maybe Indian's dose.)

The market belongs to the most competitive supplier all the time. Several years ago, they underestimated China's industrial ability and now they kinda wake up. To me it is totally understandable that Russia, for their own sake, cut up the supply, if we have a look at their past records of distrust and nation nature.

 

[DesiGuy]

nothing big. Russia decided not to sell because of their own interests. nothing to be happy about., to Indian fellows.

 

[RescueRanger]

You guys don't even have a wind tunnel. What makes you think you can design even a basic plane without a wind tunnel? Hell it took us more than 7000 trips to the damn thing to get the design right. Give the chinese their due credit...they've worrked real hard (for no real rewards)

*Facepalm*

Educate yourself:

Pakistani Made Trainer: MFI-17
MFI-17 Mushshak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

K-8 Karakorum

Good Day!

 

[RescueRanger]

It is same as cheap Chinese goods are competitor to branded products. They sell only due to dead cheap price.

You know the Westerners use to say that about another country... Japan, and look where their electronics market went... Stop being so ignorant!

 

[Chanakyaa]

Lca vs jf17 has been discussed a million time.. Let this thread be for jf17 alone.

 

[RescueRanger]

Who's wind tunnels were these tested. It's a Joint Venture.

Ignorance is bliss:

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex....

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia