RSS outfit wants Manusmriti reworked

[The_Showstopper]

Ambedkar for sure knew about the agendas of Hindu Maha Sabha/RSS. We see frequent conversion of scheduled class/OBCs in Maharashtra and some other states to Buddhism in protest of the RSS high caste hegemony.

And all that talk of UCC was just to a way to rile up certain communities.

 

[IndoCarib]

So if RSS says it is not, you "may" be convinced

So what is that solid proof going to be? "Muslim and christian invaders tampered it" could be possibly a solid proof. No?

Manusmriti is full of contradictions as many scholars on the text have said. I expect the RSS to stump the leftist historians and other commoners like you.

Other scholars point to the inconsistencies and have questioned the authenticity of verses, and the extent to which verses were changed, inserted or interpolated into the original, at a later date. Sinha, for example, states that less than half, or only 1,214 of the 2,685 verses in Manusmriti, may be authentic.[63] Further, the verses are internally inconsistent.[64] Verses such as 3.55-3.62 of Manusmriti, for example, glorify the position of women, while verse such as 9.3 and 9.17 do the opposite.[63] Other passages found in Manusmriti, such as those relating to Ganesha, are modern era insertions and forgeries.[65]

Nelson in 1887, in a legal brief before the Madras High Court of British India, had stated, "there are various contradictions and inconsistencies in the Manu Smriti itself, and that these contradictions would lead one to conclude that such a commentary did not lay down legal principles to be followed but were merely recommendatory in nature.

The Laws of Manu
George Bühler, translator
(Sacred Books of the East, Volume 25)

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/manu.htm

 

[The_Showstopper]

Wow where does it say that 8000 year old laws are being used in 2017. They were used in Pre Colonial India and by the british. All these were abolished in 1950's Today we are in 2017.

I think you tried to open this thread to try and rile Hindutvawaadis and Sanghis. But you inadvertently paid them compliments.

1 You thought we may be angry with books being changed but we are actually very happy. This shows we are pragmatic and progressive unlike others who claim that their books are unchangeble till the end of time and continue to insist on practices written 1400 years ago

2 You thought Modern Hindus follow Manusmiriti then you yourself gave links that these practices were pre colonial and were all changed post independence. Moreover I proved that no one currently follows the Manusmiriti

So on behalf of all Sanghis and Hindutvawaadis

Not sure how Sanghis taking credit for reformation of Hindu laws when it was Nehru and Ambedkar who worked for its reformation and who are despised by Sanghis and Hindutvaadis. Had it not being for Nehru/Ambedkar, Hindu women and lower caste would still be fighting for their rights. Atleast we have these rights on paper now.

So if modern Hindus don't like or follow Manusmriti then why is RSS and our culture minister so concerned about reworking/re-modelling? Why is it not working on developing a UCC draft rather than working on some centuries' old laws? Is it not the one who makes hell lot of noise about UCC?

Manusmriti is full of contradictions as many scholars on the text have said. I expect the RSS to stump the leftist historians and other commoners like you.

Other scholars point to the inconsistencies and have questioned the authenticity of verses, and the extent to which verses were changed, inserted or interpolated into the original, at a later date. Sinha, for example, states that less than half, or only 1,214 of the 2,685 verses in Manusmriti, may be authentic.[63] Further, the verses are internally inconsistent.[64] Verses such as 3.55-3.62 of Manusmriti, for example, glorify the position of women, while verse such as 9.3 and 9.17 do the opposite.[63] Other passages found in Manusmriti, such as those relating to Ganesha, are modern era insertions and forgeries.[65]

Nelson in 1887, in a legal brief before the Madras High Court of British India, had stated, "there are various contradictions and inconsistencies in the Manu Smriti itself, and that these contradictions would lead one to conclude that such a commentary did not lay down legal principles to be followed but were merely recommendatory in nature.

The Laws of Manu
George Bühler, translator
(Sacred Books of the East, Volume 25)

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/manu.htm

So tell me who changed/manipulated these laws?

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Are you being passive aggressive here? Do read what Manu has stated and what were those laws. Here's a brief introduction for you

http://www.indialawjournal.org/archives/volume8/issue-1/article10.html

And was this "stupidly rigid like some people who quote the books" an attempt at drawing some solace?

Let's say for example. Idiots arguing at SC for Polygamy, triple talaq, nikah halala or even underage marriage of girls showing an holy book as an example written 13 centuries ago... And saying that contents of the book cannot be changed for the sake of modern times... Nobody is asking anyone to change the books... Change ur practises... and if anyone proposes to change it, there will be fatwa declared and god knows what happens..

Before you bring something, Hindu, Christian and other personal laws have been nearly bought in conformity with the UCC. Most of them.. Muslims alone tend to be backwards cos they are resistant to change... Atleast Hindu community thinks of reforming itself and those who start reading manu at an early age can read an modern version of it free of bias.

Not sure how Sanghis taking credit for reformation of Hindu laws when it was Nehru and Ambedkar who worked for its reformation and who are despised by Sanghis and Hindutvaadis. Had it not being for Nehru/Ambedkar, Hindu women and lower caste would still be fighting for their rights. Atleast we have these rights on paper now.

So if modern Hindus don't like or follow Manusmriti then why is RSS and our culture minister so concerned about reworking/re-modelling? Why is it not working on developing a UCC draft rather than working on some centuries' old laws? Is it not the one who makes hell lot of noise about UCC?


So tell me who changed/manipulated these laws?

So who is your Nehru/Ambedkar? Seeing that ur community have failed to reform itself from within.

 

[The_Showstopper]

Let's say for example. Idiots arguing at SC for Polygamy, triple talaq, nikah halala or even underage marriage of girls showing an holy book as an example written 13 centuries ago... And saying that contents of the book cannot be changed for the sake of modern times... Nobody is asking anyone to change the books... Change ur practises... and if anyone proposes to change it, there will be fatwa declared and god knows what happens..

Before you bring something, Hindu, Christian and other personal laws have been nearly bought in conformity with the UCC. Most of them.. Muslims alone tend to be backwards cos they are resistant to change... Atleast Hindu community thinks of reforming itself and those who start reading manu at an early age can read an modern version of it free of bias.

Then you should have read about others/opponents among muslims quoting the very same holy book written 13 centuries ago against these very practices. Firstly the issues mentioned above aren't rampant among Indian muslims but yes there are such cases happening. You speak of underage marriages. What practice have you changed? When child marriages among your community is more rampant.

84% Of 12 Million Married Children Under 10 Are Hindus

So who is your Nehru/Ambedkar? Seeing that ur community have failed to reform itself from within.

It is the leaders who take the community into confidence and bring reforms. Maybe it is the Indian muslim community who needs to reform within but didn't you see muslims of other countries who have brought laws against these issues.

 

[IndoCarib]

Not sure how Sanghis taking credit for reformation of Hindu laws when it was Nehru and Ambedkar who worked for its reformation and who are despised by Sanghis and Hindutvaadis. Had it not being for Nehru/Ambedkar, Hindu women and lower caste would still be fighting for their rights. Atleast we have these rights on paper now.

So if modern Hindus don't like or follow Manusmriti then why is RSS and our culture minister so concerned about reworking/re-modelling? Why is it not working on developing a UCC draft rather than working on some centuries' old laws? Is it not the one who makes hell lot of noise about UCC?


So tell me who changed/manipulated these laws?

No one manipulated. The leftist historians may have highlighted only the discriminatory parts of the Laws of Manu. I think the European philosophers are more unbiased than our own Nehruwian historians.

German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche says "an incomparably spiritual and superior work" to the Christian Bible, observed that "the sun shines on the whole book" and attributed its ethical perspective to "the noble classes, the philosophers and warriors, who stand above the mass."

"Close the Bible and open the Manu Smriti. It has an affirmation of life, a triumphing agreeable sensation in life and that to draw up a lawbook such as Manu means to permit oneself to get the upper hand, to become perfection, to be ambitious of the highest art of living."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

You speak of underage marriages. What practice have you changed? When child marriages among your community is more rampant.

84% Of 12 Million Married Children Under 10 Are Hindus


It is the leaders who take the community into confidence and bring reforms. Maybe it is the Indian muslim community who needs to reform within but didn't you see muslims of other countries who have brought laws against these issues.

Oh yes. Regarding the first part, Child marriages to a large extent have been curbed in South India. To the extent only Muslims engage in child marriages as far as I know in TN and Kerala.
Moreover there is a law which puts parents in jail... Do u have one? Muslim parents are free to marry kids as soon as they reach puberty.. . And there is no law preventing them...

Second, those are majority muslim nations, who bought the laws by themselves. The leaders wanted to change the age old practises. The population had no reason to complain as the leaders themselves were Muslims...

Its different in India.. They never changed considering they were in minority and majority made sure not to disturb the communal harmony... You guys didnt change 0% by urself... Tomorrow even Saudi will change laws and you guys will be still living in 7th century.. Some push was needed and am happy its getting from a leader who doesnt care about vote bank politics...

 

[kaykay]

I can bet that most Indians including most of Indian pdfians here didn't even know about Manusmriti before commies made some issue about it....I for one didn't even listen its name let alone what it is.

 

[The_Showstopper]

No one manipulated. The leftist historians may have highlighted only the discriminatory parts of the Laws of Manu. I think the European philosophers are more unbiased than our own Nehruwian historians.

German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche says "an incomparably spiritual and superior work" to the Christian Bible, observed that "the sun shines on the whole book" and attributed its ethical perspective to "the noble classes, the philosophers and warriors, who stand above the mass."

"Close the Bible and open the Manu Smriti. It has an affirmation of life, a triumphing agreeable sensation in life and that to draw up a lawbook such as Manu means to permit oneself to get the upper hand, to become perfection, to be ambitious of the highest art of living."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche

You are contradicting yourself. In your previous post claimed

"Other scholars point to the inconsistencies and have questioned the authenticity of verses, and the extent to which verses were changed, inserted or interpolated into the original"

Now you are saying

"No one manipulated. The leftist historians may have highlighted only the discriminatory parts of the Laws of Manu. "

Will you be ok if I quote Wendy Doniger's works? She isn't a Nehruvian historian and more of a European.

Oh yes. Regarding the first part, Child marriages to a large extent have been curbed in South India. To the extent only Muslims engage in child marriages as far as I know in TN and Kerala.
Moreover there is a law which puts parents in jail... Do u have one? Muslim parents are free to marry kids as soon as they reach puberty.. . And there is no law preventing them...

Second, those are majority muslim nations, who bought the laws by themselves. The leaders wanted to change the age old practises. The population had no reason to complain as the leaders themselves were Muslims...

Its different in India.. They never changed considering they were in minority and majority made sure not to disturb the communal harmony... You guys didnt change 0% by urself... Tomorrow even Saudi will change laws and you guys will be still living in 7th century.. Some push was needed and am happy its getting from a leader who doesnt care about vote bank politics...

LOL So from Indian Hindus, you suddenly jump to South India. Despite the laws, Hindus haven't changed/reformed their practice whereas Indian muslims even with no regulation don't follow this practice on large scale when compared to Indian Hindus.

Leader who doesn't care for vote bank politics. I thought you were more balanced in your views but you let me down. When some one points out the vote bank politics played by BJP during elections, many Sanghi posters state as to how important it is for elections. So please spare me that "Leader who doesn't care for vote bank politics". Here is one such example of BJP's vote bank politics.

Many Factors Helped BJP Win UP, The Biggest Was Caste
BJP: BJP assures reservation to Marathas - Times of India

So when BJP provides reservation it is not votebank politics but when others do, they shout out

KCR's move to provide quota to Muslims is vote-bank politics: BJP

 

[IndoCarib]

You are contradicting yourself. In your previous post claimed

"Other scholars point to the inconsistencies and have questioned the authenticity of verses, and the extent to which verses were changed, inserted or interpolated into the original"

Now you are saying

"No one manipulated. The leftist historians may have highlighted only the discriminatory parts of the Laws of Manu. "

Will you be ok if I can quote Wendy Doniger's works? She isn't a Nehruvian historian and more of a European?


LOL So from Indian Hindus, you suddenly jump to South India. Despite the laws, Hindus haven't changed/reformed their practice whereas Indian muslims even with no regulation don't follow this practice on large scale when compared to Indian Hindus.

Leader who doesn't care for vote bank politics. I thought you were more balanced in your views but you let me down. When some one points out the vote bank politics played by BJP during elections, many Sanghi posters state as to how important it is for elections. So please spare me that "Leader who doesn't care for vote bank politics". Here is one such example of BJP's vote bank politics.

Many Factors Helped BJP Win UP, The Biggest Was Caste
BJP: BJP assures reservation to Marathas - Times of India

I am not contradicting myself. I am contradicting other's take on The Laws of Manu. Wendy is a present day American. She writes books on Hindusim in general, not on Manusmriti

 

[ashok321]

• RSS to hold annual meeting for first time in J&K

 

[The_Showstopper]

I am not contradicting myself. I am contradicting other's take on The Laws of Manu. Wendy is a present day American. She writes books on Hindusim in general, not on Manusmriti

But you used those sources to support your claim and ended up contradicting yourself. She may be an American citizen but they are all European.

 

[Hindustani78]

I have no idea what is in Manu or Vedas.. Never touched an religious book till now... But its good if they are modified in today's context.. It just shows Santana Dharmam is adaptable to the modern world, and we are not stupidly rigid like some people who quote the books....

I think its more about understanding the scriptures and then having debate by the Dharm Gurus and let various Aryan 'Matha/Math/Mutt.

• The Dakshiānmnāya Sri Sharada Peetham (main matha) at Sringeri Sharada Peetham in Shringeri, Karnataka.
• The Uttarāmnāya matha (northern matha) at Jyotir Math in the city of Jyotirmath also known as Joshimath, Uttarakhand.
• The Pūrvāmnāya matha (eastern matha), or the Govardhana matha at Puri, Odisha.
• The Paśchimāmnāya matha (western matha), or the Dwaraka Pitha at Dwarka, Gujarat.
  
  Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham located in Kanchipuram.
  
  
  

These guys should Leave the ancient scripture in their original form, we have constitution. Any attempt to corrupt the scriptures will only create more confusions.

Actually Constitution of Republic of India has been drafted by those men who were well versed in Religious Scriptures.

The hon'ble members sat in semi-circular rows facing the Presidential dias. The desks which could be warmed electrically were placed on sloping green-carpeted terraces. Those who adorned the front row were Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, Acharya J.B. Kripalani, Dr. Rajendra Prasad, Smt. Sarojini Naidu, Shri Hare-Krushna Mahatab, Pandit Govind Ballabh Pant, Dr. B.R. Ambedkar, Shri Sarat Chandra Bose, Shri C. Rajagopalachari and Shri M. Asaf Ali. Two hundred and seven representatives, including nine women were present.

Ambedkar for sure knew about the agendas of Hindu Maha Sabha/RSS. We see frequent conversion of scheduled class/OBCs in Maharashtra and some other states to Buddhism in protest of the RSS high caste hegemony.

Actually during that period, Indian Establishment was well aware about the liberation of Holy Sites which were under occupation.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

You are contradicting yourself. In your previous post claimed

"Other scholars point to the inconsistencies and have questioned the authenticity of verses, and the extent to which verses were changed, inserted or interpolated into the original"

Now you are saying

"No one manipulated. The leftist historians may have highlighted only the discriminatory parts of the Laws of Manu. "

Will you be ok if I quote Wendy Doniger's works? She isn't a Nehruvian historian and more of a European.


LOL So from Indian Hindus, you suddenly jump to South India. Despite the laws, Hindus haven't changed/reformed their practice whereas Indian muslims even with no regulation don't follow this practice on large scale when compared to Indian Hindus.

Leader who doesn't care for vote bank politics. I thought you were more balanced in your views but you let me down. When some one points out the vote bank politics played by BJP during elections, many Sanghi posters state as to how important it is for elections. So please spare me that "Leader who doesn't care for vote bank politics". Here is one such example of BJP's vote bank politics.

Many Factors Helped BJP Win UP, The Biggest Was Caste
BJP: BJP assures reservation to Marathas - Times of India

So when BJP provides reservation it is not votebank politics but when others do, they shout out

KCR's move to provide quota to Muslims is vote-bank politics: BJP

I am for maintaining status quo in reservations. And I understood long back when trying to civil with you and you never have ever responded me back with same civility. What u have done is bash BJP, RSS for all reasons.

BJP doesnt have Muslims as its vote bank and if womens lose this opportunity, they will never have the evil practise of triple talaq undone. Simple as that...

Yes Hindus havent changed.. But we didnt create an furore by going to SC and looked like an idiot in front of the world justifying child marriages or polygamy... but there are laws which can prosecute anyone anytime if one indulges in it...

And yes... I oppose reservations based on religion... Our champion Ambedkar opposed it... So why do u want it now? U should be the first person to oppose it.... U use Ambedkar only when u wish so

 

[G0dfather]

I heard about Manusmriti for the first time after the JNU drama.