Rs 2000 notes to be phased out in next few years: RSS ideologue S Gurumurthy

[ashok321]

 

[ashok321]

Nearly Rs 14 lakh crore demonetised currency back in system; RBI in the dock for deleting information from website? jantakareporter.com/india/14-lakh-

 

[The_Showstopper]

You will have to wait forever if you are not going to answer questions...i have asked you now for i guess almost 3 times what is your take on MMS being controlled by Sonia...You have not even said once...now for the fourth time what is your take?? Anyways check back my previous replies I have shared enough links...

Are we playing ping-pong over here. You stated the following

"there are tons of material out there...from neutral folks to people who worked with them to actions within parliament.",

Hence I asked you to prove or post as to how Sonia controlled MMS led Government. So stop your escapism(which I am literally tired off) and post something meaningful and No, you haven't posted anything concrete to prove your point.

Again if you pay attention i have answered this question way back...Congress won because of polarization due to Sikh Pogrom...Not only that I also explained that internal factions with in Congress would have been too hot to handle and Rajiv stature had to be lifted...So riots were manufactured...Why are you making me write the same stuff again and again...and then you are accusing me of wasting time...!!

Polarization? So who were polarized? And I ask you again as to how RG won elections

"Was it because of anti-sikh riots or was it because of the sympathy wave that was generated after IG's death?"

You can't compare secluded incidents with a decade long full blown conflict...having said that I am no one to lecture should you feel you are a second class citizen..I certainly don't think I am irrespective of state actions...

Secluded incidents? OK show me sources where Sikhs being picked were regular incidents and muslims being picked on were secluded... No, you presented some instances and stated they were alike being treated as second class citizens...

Yes I don't see congress leaders spewing venom on Sikhs however i do find them promoting the same leaders accused of riots...i also see them doing appeasement politics with Muslims...now once again what are we debating here?? Appeasement politics and so called communal politics are different sides of the same coin...

LOL The same Congress have also done appeasement politics with not just muslims but almost everyone including Sikhs. Thankfully you at least accept that appeasement and communal are partially different... That's a good beginning even though it is a bit late

And that is your perception...

That is what you want to believe...

I feel like banging my head on wall right now...Please tell i have not wasted all this time discussing with you...Check color coding and numbers again plz..red color suggests states where beef is banned and not just about cow slaughter...in some there is blanket ban...in some with riders...blue shows where it isn't at all...check here again...
http://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-no-beef-nation/

Now let me get into this distinction of beef...
a) Majority of states don't allow cow slaughter...
b) Majority of states don't allow bull, bullock etc unless and until you have a fit for slaughter certificate(called riders)

Yes, BJP went ahead and removed even the riders...however the questions is why did majority of states got in those riders?? Were they doing it to hurt muslim interests?? Look i understand you have problems with BJP/RSS or likes...however the plain fact is that states after states banned cow slaughter(along with riders for other form)...this started way back in 60's and the intention was just one...vote bank politics...When even cow slaughter was banned for the first time in all these states Muslim interests were hit even then...no??

I am sorry to say this but you should probably bang your head if you can't read and understand what you yourself posted. You state that BJP went ahead and removed even those "riders"? So why were they removed in the first place? Muslims and other communities were doing ok even with those riders and Cows even during 60's weren't slaughtered until they were of no use to farmers or breeders, so that did not effect muslims or dalits much. Same goes with bulls... So I ask you again, why were these "riders" removed? What was the intention behind it?

Now you are sounding silly...Let me ask you...when Babri Masjid fell was govt. of the day justified in letting that happen since the same right wing was up against them?? Just because people are protesting doesn't make them right...that is why we need a freaking govt. otherwise why not let the mob rule...since govt. anyways can't go against their will..no??...The decisions are taken up by the govt. and thus onus is on them...
Look i totally get it that you have problems with BJP/RSS likes...however just because of that we should stop calling spade a spade??

I am not sounding silly but it is you who is either being dubious or ignorant(Probably to have the last word I guess). Yes people may or may not be right but because we have democracy, the government is forced to bow down to their wishes and this happened many a times...

Did you call me Sanghi out of sheer respect for my views?? Now stop being a smarty pant...

Did I call you s Sanghi? Read my posts again and stop going bonkers over it... Your should have asked as to why your reasoning was termed as Sanghi. Calling someone a Sanghi or stating that his/her reasoning is like a Sanghi are totally different things.

And i explained...State need to back it...I even gave you example where it did...84 and 2002 are instances where state mechanism failed people...Individuals and their actions don't count...anyone who will dare to do anything like that will face full wrath of the law...

"will face full wrath of the law" - That's only when the Government wants to...

And i picked one and showed that you were wrong on saying that they are only forcing Gita...Now let me handle this other link..
Well if you find forcing Gita/Quran/Bible on people wrong then say that...I will support you as i myself find it wrong...don't mix it with BJP agenda of hurting Muslim interests...this is what i am debating with you...

Anyways here are two interesting links(i personally don't believe chouhan given he is a politician but still) ....
https://www.hinduismtoday.com/blogs...ght-in-schools--says-mp-high-court/11835.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=TOIIndiaNews

Where did you show me that I was wrong? Indeed there is an agenda when BJP just wanted the Gita to be introduced as a compulsory part of academics very well knowing that it wouldn't be likened by minorities(no such plan for Quran or Bible), Quran and Bible only came into picture after opposition fought against its imposition

..for once stop looking at the issue from BJP/RSS lens...in the article i shared it is BJP who is raising the concerns...anyways...we have rare agreements so let me not spoil it...

We are discussing about BJP/RSS so all the discussions would be central to them...

It should not have been that difficult to crack...My arguments are mine...I represent myself and so do you....its not about being touchy...I am not some right wing chap nor would ever want to be...now drop it and move on...

Yes you do but your views can align with others... So stop feeling offended about it...

That Maratha's votes are up for grab but not the Muslim votes..secondly reservations based on religion is not acceptable...Now let me ask you something...For how long congress was in power in Maharashtra?? When did they bring in these reservations?? What should I deduce from it??

And why do you think that muslims don't vote for BJP? Here is a news for you...

Gujarat local body polls: Over 200 Muslim BJP candidates victorious

http://indianexpress.com/article/ci...ls-over-200-muslim-bjp-candidates-victorious/

Why this Muslim-majority town in Gujarat voted for Narendra Modi's BJP

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/why-...n-gujarat-voted-for-narendra-modis-bjp-513245

Is it not funny that you bring in a court judgement to support your argument on Gita but completely overlook the same court's decision on muslim reservation... I asked you as to what should I deduce from BJP government not giving reservation to muslims but has no issues giving reservation to Marathas even though High court has ruled against it and you counter question me instead of answering. So I am waiting...

Here we differ...because you are missing the glaring similarity...a) both moves are only for votes...b) both cause alienation...c) giving something to someone on the name of religion or taking it away only from a particular religion breaks the secular model...

Well so Congress after alienation did the following...

Attacked over namaz break, CM announces ‘short breaks’ for all in Uttarakhand

http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...s-short-breaks-for-all-in-uttarakhand/480853/

So Congress unlike BJP appeases all which does not cause alienation among certain groups. And said earlier India does not strictly follow secularism...

Actually here you are being ignorant and that too on many scales...it seems like you have no idea on what are the vote banks in India...have you heard a term called social engineering??...There was a subtle hint in my previous answer as well...let me quote
There is a Dalit vote, there is SC/ST/Backward class vote, there is Jat vote and similarly there is a Muslim Vote..that is why such reservations keep popping up targeting these group
Now let me explain...Hindu's in general don't vote as a single entity...caste plays a major factor there...so SC/ST/Dalits/MahaDalits/Jats/Upper Caste/Brahmins/blah blah blah...Bihar state elections should be a good case study should you want to learn...Now look at our political parties and map their actions...You will not find BJP doing any appeasement politics catering only to Muslims....however you will surely find them raking up issues like Ram Temple etc(serving their vote bank which is upper caste)...Congress and other parties will do the opposite.....appeasement politics for lower classes and muslims(their vote banks)....however go couple of decades back and you will find them playing BJP role on many instances.... The only reason Modi won was because he cut into various groups including Muslims votes because he was able to rake up one issue that hit all these groups - "development"...

I have already proved how "current" you are with Indian current affairs, so stop saying that I've been ignorant, it is you who has shown the tendencies of ignorance... Yes Hindus in general don't vote for single entity but when shown a bogeyman(say muslims), they do vote as a unit as noted in many elections where BJP won (eg: 2002 Gujarat elections) and I have already posted sources where riots have favoured BJP electorally...

 

[deckingraj]

Are we playing ping-pong over here. You stated the following
"there are tons of material out there...from neutral folks to people who worked with them to actions within parliament.",

Hence I asked you to prove or post as to how Sonia controlled MMS led Government. So stop your escapism(which I am literally tired off) and post something meaningful and No, you haven't posted anything concrete to prove your point.

This is a pathetic display....well if I have not posted anything concrete then nothing will ever be concrete to you...and I entertained all this without even once you telling me what is your pov on "if MMS was controlled by Sonia"...and you have the nerve to say you are tired?? Not sure why you are showing this level of bankruptcy...anyways i am done with this point unless and until you tell what is you answer to the question on MMS vs Sonia(now asking for the 5th time)....

Polarization? So who were polarized and what were the poles? And I ask you again as to how RG won elections ..."Was it because of anti-sikh riots or was it because of the sympathy wave that was generated after IG's death?"

What were the poles?? Are you purposefully wasting my time here?? Sorry to say the poles i am finding here is you and your head...who for some reason are not getting two basic points...
a) Sikh pogrom polarized the atmosphere and helped Congress cause...
b) Sikh pogrom was manufactured because unlike IG, RG was naive(at that time) and didn't have the same grip on the party...
Just check the BJP show in that elections...A communal party(as per you) won only 2 seats..questions should be why??...polarization perhaps?? .....Now if that is not enough for you then for a change share your thoughts...why you think Riots didn't help Congress...

Secluded incidents? OK show me sources where Sikhs being picked were regular incidents and muslims being picked on were secluded... No, you presented some instances and stated they were alike being treated as second class citizens...

Is everything ok with you?? Terrorism in Punjab lasted for 10 years...as compared to patches of terror/communal tensions related incident in the country(excluding kashmir)...what proof you need for that??

LOL The same Congress have also done appeasement politics with not just muslims but almost everyone including Sikhs. Thankfully you at least accept that appeasement and communal are partially different... That's a good beginning even though it is a bit late

What?? Where did I say they are different?? May be its my English but two sides of the same coin means they are different(partially?)...well then fine!!..this is what google says to me and this is what i meant...

"If two things are two sides of the same coin, they are very closely related although they seem different"

That is what you want to believe...

because this is a fact...which you don't want to believe... ...on a serious note..let's drop it from discussion...

I am sorry to say this but you should probably bang your head if you can't read and understand what you yourself posted. You state that BJP went ahead and removed even those "riders"? So why were they removed in the first place? Muslims and other communities were doing ok even with those riders and Cows even during 60's weren't slaughtered until they were of no use to farmers or breeders, so that did not effect muslims or dalits much. Same goes with bulls... So I ask you again, why were these "riders" removed? What was the intention behind it?

Well i honestly lost my cool after reading above explanation...but then i have debated with you in the past as well and you have been reasonable...so here are some explanations and questions...if you are a honest person then answer them...
q1) Do you think other governments put ban on cow slaughter as they were convinced it will not hurt Muslim interests?
q2) Do you think other governments put riders on other forms as they were convinced it will not hurt Muslim interests?
q3) Do you think by banning cow slaughter other governments wanted to play vote bank politics??
q4) Do you think other forms are sacred to Hindu's?? if no - then why you think riders were put in place?
Now check your first bold part again...so cows were indeed slaughtered when they were of no use..so how come blanket ban on cows didn't hurt then?? Now coming to your second bold part..my q4 has the answer in it...anyways i have been consistent with my answer to this...this is all vote bank politics..then and now ....Muslim interests didn't matter then and they don't matter now....

I am not sounding silly but it is you who is either being dubious or ignorant(Probably to have the last word I guess). Yes people may or may not be right but because we have democracy, the government is forced to bow down to their wishes and this happened many a times...

It is silly because it looks like you don't even know what democracy is...if i go by your definition and working style of democracy then minorities would have long gone from this country... right wing wanted to demolish babri...so govt. should allow it..after all it is democracy...right wing want to declare India a hindu state..so let it be..after all we are a democracy....right wing want to throw out all non hindu's from state...so let it be after all we are democracy...all of the above is rubbish no??...so no democracy doesn't mean minority can go take a hike...democracy means all are equal and rights of all needs to be protected....let me repeat for the nth time...all the decisions are taken by the state...and they are responsible for it...period!!

Did I call you s Sanghi? Read my posts again and stop going bonkers over it... Your should have asked as to why your reasoning was termed as Sanghi. Calling someone a Sanghi or stating that his/her reasoning is like a Sanghi are totally different things.

You are sounding like an idiot...keep in mind i am not calling you an idiot here...just equating you with one...now if you don't find anything idiotic in my argument then please let me continue getting bonkers on it..I asked you to drop it but since you can't then feel free to continue however this is my last reply on this topic...

"will face full wrath of the law" - That's only when the Government wants to...

Exactly...and that would be a litmus test if state is in cahoots...now let me tell you something secret(unfortunately it is an open secret)...Law and Order is a state subject...So we may love to blame everything on Modi but in reality that is just bull sh1t...

Where did you show me that I was wrong? Indeed there is an agenda when BJP just wanted the Gita to be introduced as a compulsory part of academics very well knowing that it wouldn't be likened by minorities(no such plan for Quran or Bible), Quran and Bible only came into picture after opposition fought against its imposition

Because govt. is in majority in Haryana..so if they want they can bring in any law..like they did by removing riders of bull(etc) slaughter which as per you is anti muslim......may be opposition was on vacation when they were bringing in that law, no?? ... Look chapters from Gita were brought in with the intention of adding moral values ...however this move was taken as saffornization attempt and govt. brought in Quran and Bible to qualm those concerns....at the end of the day RSS stooge(as per you) is teaching Geeta along with Quran to hurt muslim interests .....

We are discussing about BJP/RSS so all the discussions would be central to them...

Sure, though we are discussing that all parties are equally communal/secular...b/w those concern were raised by BJP against NCERT errors introduced by previous govt.

Yes you do but your views can align with others... So stop feeling offended about it...

Explained above...Ignoring....

And why do you think that muslims don't vote for BJP? Here is a news for you...

Gujarat local body polls: Over 200 Muslim BJP candidates victorious

Why this Muslim-majority town in Gujarat voted for Narendra Modi's BJP

Honestly now are we going discuss about if Muslim vote for BJP?? Check the vote breakdown of various elections and you will get it...b/w I also said that in 2014 far more Muslims voted for BJP as compared with any previous general elections and even explained why...did you miss that??...Now why the shift..because at the end of day all of us want development...Gujrat had many success stories and people continued to show interest in him...

Is it not funny that you bring in a court judgement to support your argument on Gita but completely overlook the same court's decision on muslim reservation... I asked you as to what should I deduce from BJP government not giving reservation to muslims but has no issues giving reservation to Marathas even though High court has ruled against it and you counter question me instead of answering. So I am waiting...

Don't you find funny that you trash high court decision on Geeta but support high court decision on Muslim reservations?? As for bold part you will keep waiting because i have already answered but god knows why you seems to keep missing it...Let me again repeat - This was a decision taken by previous govt. just before elections as a vote bank political measure...BJP dropped it and continued with other(again vote bank) measure because it caters to their vote bank(Maratha reservation)...funny you have so much to say but not once shared your thought on NCP/Congress bringing it just before elections....had they been sincere about Muslims and Marathas shouldn't they have brought in much earlier??

Also Before you do a repeat of Muslim vote for BJP here are some numbers from 2014...
Muslim - BJP(13%) Congress(54%)
Maratha - BJP(24%) Congress(11%)

Now SS and BJP fought separately...and fought for the same Maratha votes(30% vs 24%)...One even having a kindergarden level of understanding about Politics would be able to conclude why continuing with Maratha reservation makes sense and why Muslim one's don't...I hope you will not make me repeat all this again...

Well so Congress after alienation did the following...Attacked over namaz break, CM announces ‘short breaks’ for all in Uttarakhand

http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...s-short-breaks-for-all-in-uttarakhand/480853/

So Congress unlike BJP appeases all which does not cause alienation among certain groups. And said earlier India does not strictly follow secularism...

Just sit back and go over what you are writing...BJP in Haryana brought in Geeta and after uproar added Quran and Bible in that list...do you see any similarity in this episode with the above you just mentioned?? Now let me repeat for the nth time...appeasement politics and communal politics are two sides of the same coin...and who is suffering by such decisions?? Please tell me who is the ultimate looser when all employees start taking 1-2 hour break every Friday..it is common man like you and me..no??...Now imagine the same thing repeated all over India??

Have you ever wondered so called secular parties have ruled almost 80-85% of the time and yet Muslims and Dalits are still backward..yet many more riots have occurred(mind it per capita) under their rule than being under communal party?? Is there something out there that can explain this rather strange analogy??

I have already proved how "current" you are with Indian current affairs, so stop saying that I've been ignorant, it is you who has shown the tendencies of ignorance... Hindus in general don't vote for single entity but when shown a bogeyman(say muslims), they do vote as a unit as noted in many elections where BJP won (eg: 2002 Gujarat elections) and I have already posted sources where riots have favoured BJP electorally...

So you have already proved it?? you are a funny man ....and unfortunately way too opinionated and thus far far away from reality...anyways just for the sake of argument - even you acknowledge that hindus in general don't vote for a single party...so that means your assertion that congress alienate 86% by appeasing 14% is wrong, no??

 

[The_Showstopper]

This is a pathetic display....well if I have not posted anything concrete then nothing will ever be concrete to you...and I entertained all this without even once you telling me what is your pov on "if MMS was controlled by Sonia"...and you have the nerve to say you are tired?? Not sure why you are showing this level of bankruptcy...anyways i am done with this point unless and until you tell what is you answer to the question on MMS vs Sonia(now asking for the 5th time)....

I asked you a source to prove your claim that "Sonia Gandhi controlled MMS led Government" and you run round the circles. Why are you so dependent on what I think about SG-MMS Government relationship? Why can't you go ahead and post what is asked from you?

What were the poles?? Are you purposefully wasting my time here?? Sorry to say the poles i am finding here is you and your head...who for some reason are not getting two basic points...
a) Sikh pogrom polarized the atmosphere and helped Congress cause...
b) Sikh pogrom was manufactured because unlike IG, RG was naive(at that time) and didn't have the same grip on the party...
Just check the BJP show in that elections...A communal party(as per you) won only 2 seats..questions should be why??...polarization perhaps?? .....Now if that is not enough for you then for a change share your thoughts...why you think Riots didn't help Congress...

Why can't you answer my questions instead of diverting the topic, Why are avoiding every question I ask? Is it because you don't have answers or you don't want to answer them? Do you even know what polarization means? Or you've been harping on it just for the sake of it? When you say Sikh pogrom polarized the atmosphere, tell me who are polarized sides(Like Hindu-muslim polarization after Babri masjid demolition). Since I am convinced about the claim of you being current with Indian affairs is utter bullshit, let me make a revelation, that BJP went from winning 2 seats in 1984 to 160+ seats in 1996 because of Ram mandir movement polarizing Hindu and muslims and consolidating on Hindu vote.

Is everything ok with you?? Terrorism in Punjab lasted for 10 years...as compared to patches of terror/communal tensions related incident in the country(excluding kashmir)...what proof you need for that??

I am not asking you to tell me what I already know, post sources and prove your point aka that Sikhs being picked were regular incidents and muslims being picked on were secluded events...

What?? Where did I say they are different?? May be its my English but two sides of the same coin means they are different(partially?)...well then fine!!..this is what google says to me and this is what i meant...

"If two things are two sides of the same coin, they are very closely related although they seem different"

I was being sarcastic, After having such a long conversation with you, I have realized the level of your timidity and that you will never accept the fact that Appeasement and Communalism are two different things else we wouldn't have had this conversation being so long...

Well i honestly lost my cool after reading above explanation...but then i have debated with you in the past as well and you have been reasonable...so here are some explanations and questions...if you are a honest person then answer them...
q1) Do you think other governments put ban on cow slaughter as they were convinced it will not hurt Muslim interests?
q2) Do you think other governments put riders on other forms as they were convinced it will not hurt Muslim interests?
q3) Do you think by banning cow slaughter other governments wanted to play vote bank politics??
q4) Do you think other forms are sacred to Hindu's?? if no - then why you think riders were put in place?
Now check your first bold part again...so cows were indeed slaughtered when they were of no use..so how come blanket ban on cows didn't hurt then?? Now coming to your second bold part..my q4 has the answer in it...anyways i have been consistent with my answer to this...this is all vote bank politics..then and now ....Muslim interests didn't matter then and they don't matter now....

Is it not funny that you seem to lose your cool while choosing not to answer questions asked by me. Infact it is rather hypocritical I must say. Anyways let me try answering them one by one(And I hope you shall answer mine without displaying your "angst")

A1. Yes the government(Congress led) was trying to find a middle ground where Indian business establishments(what you call muslim interests) would not be affected much while not antagonizing the other side.
A2. Ok I assume the other government to be Congress here and yes my answer is that the government tried to keep a balance view where they brought in rules where others were kept in mind while not hurting the sentiments of anti-Cow slaughter protesters.
A3. I believe they were playing votebank politics since Right wing groups were able to mobilize and gather good support for anti-cow slaughter legislation among common hindus.
A4. Well I am not entirely sure but Nandi(The Bull) is revered by some Hindus(In South India).

It is silly because it looks like you don't even know what democracy is...if i go by your definition and working style of democracy then minorities would have long gone from this country... right wing wanted to demolish babri...so govt. should allow it..after all it is democracy...right wing want to declare India a hindu state..so let it be..after all we are a democracy....right wing want to throw out all non hindu's from state...so let it be after all we are democracy...all of the above is rubbish no??...so no democracy doesn't mean minority can go take a hike...democracy means all are equal and rights of all needs to be protected....let me repeat for the nth time...all the decisions are taken by the state...and they are responsible for it...period!!

LOL You are trying to teach me what democracy is but infact you yourself don't to know what it is... When you say minorities would have long gone because of democracy then let me remind you that right wing were in minority then and hence Government didn't act in favour of right wing. And yes right wing want India to be declared Hindu rashtra but then again majority still doesn't want a Hindu Rashtra(since Modi led Government won based on their Development campaign), hence we don't have a Hindu Rashtra. USA was a democracy since 18th Century but extended voting rights to women only in 20th century after Constitutional amendment.(Wasn't their discrimination then even during democracy?). The majority in 18th and 19th century in USA(even with democracy in place) didn't provide equal rights to everyone. Do you get the difference?

You are sounding like an idiot...keep in mind i am not calling you an idiot here...just equating you with one...now if you don't find anything idiotic in my argument then please let me continue getting bonkers on it..I asked you to drop it but since you can't then feel free to continue however this is my last reply on this topic...

Ouch!! Calling you Sanghi was so hurtful? Isn't the PM of this country a Sanghi(Someone you have great hopes on).

Because govt. is in majority in Haryana..so if they want they can bring in any law..like they did by removing riders of bull(etc) slaughter which as per you is anti muslim......may be opposition was on vacation when they were bringing in that law, no?? ... Look chapters from Gita were brought in with the intention of adding moral values ...however this move was taken as saffornization attempt and govt. brought in Quran and Bible to qualm those concerns....at the end of the day RSS stooge(as per you) is teaching Geeta along with Quran to hurt muslim interests .....

"Look chapters from Gita were brought in with the intention of adding moral values."
So we need a Gita to add moral values. So how many countries(ok let's only speak of Indian states) have been Gita preaching Gita to impart MORAL VALUES. So children devoid of Gita's teachings are/were brought up immoral...

Honestly now are we going discuss about if Muslim vote for BJP?? Check the vote breakdown of various elections and you will get it...b/w I also said that in 2014 far more Muslims voted for BJP as compared with any previous general elections and even explained why...did you miss that??...Now why the shift..because at the end of day all of us want development...Gujrat had many success stories and people continued to show interest in him...

No I just pointed out that muslims do vote BJP if they feel that BJP will take care of them. But if muslims majorly haven't voted BJP , then don't you think that there is a reason to that(i.e. the history and policies of BJP)...

Don't you find funny that you trash high court decision on Geeta but support high court decision on Muslim reservations?? As for bold part you will keep waiting because i have already answered but god knows why you seems to keep missing it...Let me again repeat - This was a decision taken by previous govt. just before elections as a vote bank political measure...BJP dropped it and continued with other(again vote bank) measure because it caters to their vote bank(Maratha reservation)...funny you have so much to say but not once shared your thought on NCP/Congress bringing it just before elections....had they been sincere about Muslims and Marathas shouldn't they have brought in much earlier??

Show me where I trashed High court decision on Gita.

Had BJP continued with reservation for backward muslims, don't you think, they could have grabbed good proportion of muslim votes(as they did in civic polls in Gujarat). So why this aversion of BJP when they could have provided the same sop to muslims like they did with marathas?

Also Before you do a repeat of Muslim vote for BJP here are some numbers from 2014...
Muslim - BJP(13%) Congress(54%)
Maratha - BJP(24%) Congress(11%)

Can't you see the reason for these voting patterns?

Now SS and BJP fought separately...and fought for the same Maratha votes(30% vs 24%)...One even having a kindergarden level of understanding about Politics would be able to conclude why continuing with Maratha reservation makes sense and why Muslim one's don't...I hope you will not make me repeat all this again...

Tell me why continuing reservation for backward muslims doesn't make sense, BJP could have won more seats had they pitched for backward muslims reservation like they did in Gujarat civic polls. No?

Have you ever wondered so called secular parties have ruled almost 80-85% of the time and yet Muslims and Dalits are still backward..yet many more riots have occurred(mind it per capita) under their rule than being under communal party?? Is there something out there that can explain this rather strange analogy??

Did I anytime state that they are truly secular? No I clearly stated, they played appeasement politics for all(an example quoted in an earlier post of mine). OK so tell me what do the "secular" parties get out of these riots(when they are in power)?

So you have already proved it?? you are a funny man ....and unfortunately way too opinionated and thus far far away from reality...anyways just for the sake of argument - even you acknowledge that hindus in general don't vote for a single party...so that means your assertion that congress alienate 86% by appeasing 14% is wrong, no??

What proved? What makes you come to conclusions when you aren't even answering my question or reasoning as to how I am wrong other than making blank statements? It was me who asked you the following in one of my previous posts...

"So tell me how Congress won vote with polarizing and getting a favour of just 14% of Indian population while antagonizing the rest?"

So where did I assert? I was asking a question and you instead of answering me assumed the bold part. Going by your posts I can safely conclude that you lack even the basic comprehension skills....

 

[deckingraj]

I asked you a source to prove your claim that "Sonia Gandhi controlled MMS led Government" and you run round the circles. Why are you so dependent on what I think about SG-MMS Government relationship? Why can't you go ahead and post what is asked from you?

Common sense says that I should prove something only when there is a disagreement...so need to know what is your take...and for the 5th time you have dodged the same question...not sure why are you ducking it every time...

Why can't you answer my questions instead of diverting the topic, Why are avoiding every question I ask? Is it because you don't have answers or you don't want to answer them?

I am avoiding every questions you ask??.....Dude atleast don't lie...I have answered so many questions...and debates are two way street...start answering some of my questions as well...like above one...

Do you even know what polarization means? Or you've been harping on it just for the sake of it? When you say Sikh pogrom polarized the atmosphere, tell me who are polarized sides(Like Hindu-muslim polarization after Babri masjid demolition).

Ok let me ask this in a different way...You have acknowledged that it was congress mobs that killed sikhs...This happened in Delhi, Kanpur and many other parts(though delhi and kanpur were the major affected areas)....So if Sikh pogrom didn't create any polarization(electoral benefits) then please enlighten me as to why do you think would riots be manufactured?? What was the need to take list from Municipalities and attack innocent Sikhs that had nothing to do with IG killing?? Mind it i am not asking for any proofs just you POV...

Since I am convinced about the claim of you being current with Indian affairs is utter bullshit,

I am now convinced that not only you are current with political system however a genius as well...so please spare me the bullshit...

let me make a revelation, that BJP went from winning 2 seats in 1984 to 160+ seats in 1996 because of Ram mandir movement polarizing Hindu and muslims and consolidating on Hindu vote.

Ok...Let me share some numbers...Gujrat riots claimed some 2000+ lives...Riots post Babri Masjid claimed 900+ lives...Delhi in 84 alone saw close to 3000+ deaths....So winning 160+ seats is due to polarization however winning 400+ seats(that is still a record) right after the worst pogrom this country has seen has nothing to do with polarization...do you think this is a fair assertion??

I am not asking you to tell me what I already know, post sources and prove your point aka that Sikhs being picked were regular incidents and muslims being picked on were secluded events...

You might be a political genius however your english comprehension skills seems very shaky..Now let me try one more time...when there is an ongoing conflict for 10 years in a state then those incidents are not considered secluded ...riots/terrorist incidents happening across India and thus leading to Muslim youths(innocent) being picked will be considered as secluded....Comparing a state plagued by terrorism with such incidents is insane and stupid at epic level...Comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges...having said that help me with a state(excluding Kashmir) that you think is comparable to Punjab of 90's and then we can surely try to find out proofs to make our respective claims...I can't talk in hyperbole...no??

I was being sarcastic, After having such a long conversation with you, I have realized the level of your timidity and that you will never accept the fact that Appeasement and Communalism are two different things else we wouldn't have had this conversation being so long...

Like you i have not made mere claims..i have even listed point by point as to why they are two sides of the same coin...try and prove me wrong there...making empty statements wont float the boat here...

Is it not funny that you seem to lose your cool while choosing not to answer questions asked by me. Infact it is rather hypocritical I must say. Anyways let me try answering them one by one(And I hope you shall answer mine without displaying your "angst")

Sure...though it always help when you point out what question has not been answered...no??

A1. Yes the government(Congress led) was trying to find a middle ground where Indian business establishments(what you call muslim interests) would not be affected much while not antagonizing the other side.
A2. Ok I assume the other government to be Congress here and yes my answer is that the government tried to keep a balance view where they brought in rules where others were kept in mind while not hurting the sentiments of anti-Cow slaughter protesters.
A3. I believe they were playing votebank politics since Right wing groups were able to mobilize and gather good support for anti-cow slaughter legislation among common hindus.
A4. Well I am not entirely sure but Nandi(The Bull) is revered by some Hindus(In South India).

Thanks for being specific...this is how we move with the debate..Now if you closely look at your answer you are saying few things..
Muslim interests were hit(though they try to minimize it)..Congress(and others) did play votebank politics and other forms apart from cow are also sacred...Now may i humbly ask do you think all the above are features of a secular party?? At the end of the day for vote bank politics they did end up hurting minority interests...and this is exactly what i have been claiming all this along...all parties play vote bank politics...in 60's Muslim vote bank was not as important entity as keeping hard core Hindu vote...with BJP rise this hard core hindu vote bank slowly and steadily moved to them and Muslim/Dalit vote bank became congress prime targets..

LOL You are trying to teach me what democracy is but infact you yourself don't to know what it is... When you say minorities would have long gone because of democracy then let me remind you that right wing were in minority then and hence Government didn't act in favour of right wing. And yes right wing want India to be declared Hindu rashtra but then again majority still doesn't want a Hindu Rashtra(since Modi led Government won based on their Development campaign), hence we don't have a Hindu Rashtra.

...didn't you say that right wing forced the govt. to ban cow slaughter...so on that issue right wing was in majority but on Ram Mandir they were not..is cow more sacred than Ram himself?? So no ...it is not the majority that decides such issues...It is vote bank....Congress could have saved Babri...they could have not banned cow slaughter and they could have not override court order on Shah Bano but they didn not act clean...Now let me address the democracy part...The problem is that we are debating on some very basic things...this is me spending 5 sec on google...http://onlineathens.com/stories/071202/let_letter3.shtml#.WGB0t1MrLDc

USA was a democracy since 18th Century but extended voting rights to women only in 20th century after Constitutional amendment.(Wasn't their discrimination then even during democracy?). The majority in 18th and 19th century in USA(even with democracy in place) didn't provide equal rights to everyone. Do you get the difference?

Are we living in 18th or 19th century?? Every single system has its flaws and it learns from it...Are those issues relevant in today's world??...Plz tell me as per you within our constitution what is not treated equal??

Ouch!! Calling you Sanghi was so hurtful? Isn't the PM of this country a Sanghi(Someone you have great hopes on).

Oouch!! here is the reply ...Epic Level Ignore

"Look chapters from Gita were brought in with the intention of adding moral values."
So we need a Gita to add moral values. So how many countries(ok let's only speak of Indian states) have been Gita preaching Gita to impart MORAL VALUES. So children devoid of Gita's teachings are/were brought up immoral...

Adding Moral Values = At present No Moral Values in Children...I must say your comprehension skills is improving with every new post..b/w I told you the intention behind the move...not saying it was right/wrong...

No I just pointed out that muslims do vote BJP if they feel that BJP will take care of them. But if muslims majorly haven't voted BJP , then don't you think that there is a reason to that(i.e. the history and policies of BJP)...

Welcome to 1-0-1 of our debate...

Show me where I trashed High court decision on Gita.

What?? Didn't you raise the point about teaching Gita as a tool by BJP to hurt Muslim interests?? Court decision is poles opposite to what you state...no??

Had BJP continued with reservation for backward muslims, don't you think, they could have grabbed good proportion of muslim votes(as they did in civic polls in Gujarat). So why this aversion of BJP when they could have provided the same sop to muslims like they did with marathas?

Plz check the numbers again...54% voted for Congress....and this is the time Congress is at its lowest point in history....Now compare that with 50% Marathas vote to BJP/SS combo..and since they fought against each other then where do you think sops make sense...?? Plz look at it objectively...Muslim community is not a vote bank for BJP...The only model to grab muslim vote is development as this is one area where all the so called secular parties have failed them....Also keep in mind when i bring in reservations i take from the pool of other groups(which includes people that vote for you)...that's why you will always find reservations for the core voting groups only and not the other way around....
b/w you still not have shared your POV on Congress/NCP bringing in these reservations in the last leg of their govt....

Can't you see the reason for these voting patterns?

I can...can you? From post 1 i am trying to say that all the actions of giving something to someone or taking something from someone can be simply mapped to voting patterns...Muslim community vote as an entity and BJP hardly gets a pie of that vote bank...rest i have already explained above...

Tell me why continuing reservation for backward muslims doesn't make sense, BJP could have won more seats had they pitched for backward muslims reservation like they did in Gujarat civic polls. No?

I already explained...the only model to get Muslim vote is development as far as BJP is concerned....An example...

"It was like Narendra Modi opened the government coffers for us. Whatever money we wanted for development came flowing in. And it hasn't stopped," Mr Baghaad says."

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/why-...n-gujarat-voted-for-narendra-modis-bjp-513245

Did I anytime state that they are truly secular? No I clearly stated, they played appeasement politics for all(an example quoted in an earlier post of mine). OK so tell me what do the "secular" parties get out of these riots(when they are in power)?

It looks like we are converging on this...so they are not secular..they are not communal then what are they??

Second bold part isn't obvious?? Riots creates polarization and directly helps parties representing their vote banks..Isn't this fear psychosis plaguing Muslim community and they keep on looking for anyone but BJP?? Ever wondered why riots can happen even in states where BJP is not in power for decades?? Ever wondered why state that was directly under Modi for 12 year didn't had another worth mentioning share(post 2002 riots) especially when BJP has so much hatred(your claim) for Muslims??? Answer is simple term used in my profession - ROE (Return on Equity)....So let me repeat..Riots are fabricated by all parties not for love/hate against anybody but purely from the perspective of polarization and helping their cause...This is the reality of both 84 and 2002 where fault lines were exploited to fullest...

Here is an interesting link to Muzaffarnagar riots...

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/m...bjp-sp-and-bsp-fanned-the-flames-1110023.html

What proved? What makes you come to conclusions when you aren't even answering my question or reasoning as to how I am wrong other than making blank statements? It was me who asked you the following in one of my previous posts...

"So tell me how Congress won vote with polarizing and getting a favour of just 14% of Indian population while antagonizing the rest?"

So where did I assert? I was asking a question and you instead of answering me assumed the bold part. Going by your posts I can safely conclude that you lack even the basic comprehension skills....

I have already proved how "current" you are with Indian current affairs, so stop saying that I've been ignorant, it is you who has shown the tendencies of ignorance

If the above is not an assertion then I am not sure what is...also about statements - I have explained you how Hindu's dont vote as a single entity and how their voting pattern is caste based...and that's why clearly said that this 14% vs 84% analogy is wrong...so how is this a mere statement..this is logically explaining a point..no??

 

[The_Showstopper]

Common sense says that I should prove something only when there is a disagreement...so need to know what is your take...and for the 5th time you have dodged the same question...not sure why are you ducking it every time...

Nice evasion.... So not gonna answer it(That was expected). Is it not you who claimed that SG controlled MMS led Govt, so is the onus not on you to prove the same. And as far as my ducking is concerned, I already made a statement in my earlier post

"Ok as far as the second post is concerned, I stand by what I claimed. I claimed that this is coming from BJP's very own 10 Janpath(Remote of BJP aka RSS). And I can post sources to to support my claim if you want to..."

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/rs-2000-...ogue-s-gurumurthy.466519/page-2#ixzz4UK4q5ocJ

So you ignored it while running round the circles when asked to prove what you claimed...

I am avoiding every questions you ask??.....Dude atleast don't lie...I have answered so many questions...and debates are two way street...start answering some of my questions as well...like above one...

Indeed you are avoiding and I've already answered what you asked for but in your own terms, I must say that the answering was only one way..

Ok let me ask this in a different way...You have acknowledged that it was congress mobs that killed sikhs...This happened in Delhi, Kanpur and many other parts(though delhi and kanpur were the major affected areas)....So if Sikh pogrom didn't create any polarization(electoral benefits) then please enlighten me as to why do you think would riots be manufactured?? What was the need to take list from Municipalities and attack innocent Sikhs that had nothing to do with IG killing?? Mind it i am not asking for any proofs just you POV...

Ok...Let me share some numbers...Gujrat riots claimed some 2000+ lives...Riots post Babri Masjid claimed 900+ lives...Delhi in 84 alone saw close to 3000+ deaths....So winning 160+ seats is due to polarization however winning 400+ seats(that is still a record) right after the worst pogrom this country has seen has nothing to do with polarization...do you think this is a fair assertion??

Do you even understand what polarization means, Or do you want me post the meaning of it. I in clear terms asked you as to who were polarized and you did not reply to it. I even asked you if RG won because of sympathy votes after IG's death. Even this was not answered. So I ask you again, when you say polarization took place, tell who were polarized. Was it Hindus-Sikhs?

You might be a political genius however your english comprehension skills seems very shaky..Now let me try one more time...when there is an ongoing conflict for 10 years in a state then those incidents are not considered secluded ...riots/terrorist incidents happening across India and thus leading to Muslim youths(innocent) being picked will be considered as secluded....Comparing a state plagued by terrorism with such incidents is insane and stupid at epic level...Comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges...having said that help me with a state(excluding Kashmir) that you think is comparable to Punjab of 90's and then we can surely try to find out proofs to make our respective claims...I can't talk in hyperbole...no??

Cheap shots... Hmm that's expected LOL You say the comparison is that of apples and Oranges. But going by your narrative, let me tell you that there was also a conflict where large scale riots and terror attacks were a common phenomena all over the country during 90's and early part of 21st century, This was the time when muslims were targeted both during riots and after terror attacks. Many muslims were incarcerated and held with out proper charges similar to what you claimed have happened with Sikhs.

Are you telling me that India wasn't plagued by large scale riots and terror attacks which only receded recently? They is saying in Urdu which suits you aptly and which goes like this...

"Apne ko aap, aur dusro ko tu"

Like you i have not made mere claims..i have even listed point by point as to why they are two sides of the same coin...try and prove me wrong there...making empty statements wont float the boat here...

Problem is that you don't want to accept that you are wrong(even after proving), else we wouldn't have continued this conversation...

Thanks for being specific...this is how we move with the debate..Now if you closely look at your answer you are saying few things..
Muslim interests were hit(though they try to minimize it)..Congress(and others) did play votebank politics and other forms apart from cow are also sacred...Now may i humbly ask do you think all the above are features of a secular party?? At the end of the day for vote bank politics they did end up hurting minority interests...and this is exactly what i have been claiming all this along...all parties play vote bank politics...in 60's Muslim vote bank was not as important entity as keeping hard core Hindu vote...with BJP rise this hard core hindu vote bank slowly and steadily moved to them and Muslim/Dalit vote bank became congress prime targets..

Did you even read what I've been posting all through these 7 pages? Where did I claim that Congress is truly secular party? But does that mean BJP is not a communal party? Of course not.

...didn't you say that right wing forced the govt. to ban cow slaughter...so on that issue right wing was in majority but on Ram Mandir they were not..is cow more sacred than Ram himself?? So no ...it is not the majority that decides such issues...It is vote bank....Congress could have saved Babri...they could have not banned cow slaughter and they could have not override court order on Shah Bano but they didn not act clean...Now let me address the democracy part...The problem is that we are debating on some very basic things...this is me spending 5 sec on google...http://onlineathens.com/stories/071202/let_letter3.shtml#.WGB0t1MrLDc

Was Cow Slaughter ban an emotive issue for muslims? No it was not. Was Babri masjid an emotive issue for muslims? Yes it was. Can Cow Slaughter ban in any way be compared to the demolition of a place of worship for muslims? Ofcourse not. So had Congress bowed in to pressure(though it did open the gates of Babri masjid for hindu prayers) from Hindutva and demolished Babri Masjid to construct Ram mandir, what do you think would have happened? There would have been a civil war for sure. Know the schematics before drawing comparisons and coming to a conclusion...

Moral Values = At present No Moral Values in Children...I must say your comprehension skills is improving with every new post..b/w I told you the intention behind the move...not saying it was right/wrong...

So as per your standards of comprehension skills, they were no sources of moral values earlier hence Gita was required so that values can be imparted . How did you get to know the intention of BJP?

What?? Didn't you raise the point about teaching Gita as a tool by BJP to hurt Muslim interests?? Court decision is poles opposite to what you state...no??

Does Court ruling deny the fact that it is Hindu religious scripture(Its teachings may/may not be religious)? Does the court also rule that BJP's intention of bringing in Gita into academics was to impart moral values? Irrespective of what the court says, the very point that people from minority communities have gone to court against the introduction of Gita speaks volumes about BJP's intentions and minorities' aversion towards the move.

Plz check the numbers again...54% voted for Congress....and this is the time Congress is at its lowest point in history....Now compare that with 50% Marathas vote to BJP/SS combo..and since they fought against each other then where do you think sops make sense...?? Plz look at it objectively...Muslim community is not a vote bank for BJP...The only model to grab muslim vote is development as this is one area where all the so called secular parties have failed them....Also keep in mind when i bring in reservations i take from the pool of other groups(which includes people that vote for you)...that's why you will always find reservations for the core voting groups only and not the other way around....
b/w you still not have shared your POV on Congress/NCP bringing in these reservations in the last leg of their govt....

Don't you think, you answered yourself? When you state that to grab muslim, development agenda is what is required, then what went wrong with BJP? Why didn't muslims vote for BJP since BJP was "reportedly" pitching development during 2014 LS Polls. Did muslims not want development?

I can...can you? From post 1 i am trying to say that all the actions of giving something to someone or taking something from someone can be simply mapped to voting patterns...Muslim community vote as an entity and BJP hardly gets a pie of that vote bank...rest i have already explained above...

But you didn't explain as to why muslims as an entity not vote for BJP since according to you all the parties(including Congress) are equally communal?

I already explained...the only model to get Muslim vote is development as far as BJP is concerned....An example...

"It was like Narendra Modi opened the government coffers for us. Whatever money we wanted for development came flowing in. And it hasn't stopped," Mr Baghaad says."

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/why-...n-gujarat-voted-for-narendra-modis-bjp-513245

See you state it again supported with the very source I posted, so I ask you again, if muslims have voted for Modi's BJP here, why has this not being a regular pattern elsewhere?

It looks like we are converging on this...so they are not secular..they are not communal then what are they??

Second bold part isn't obvious?? Riots creates polarization and directly helps parties representing their vote banks..Isn't this fear psychosis plaguing Muslim community and they keep on looking for anyone but BJP?? Ever wondered why riots can happen even in states where BJP is not in power for decades?? Ever wondered why state that was directly under Modi for 12 year didn't had another worth mentioning share(post 2002 riots) especially when BJP has so much hatred(your claim) for Muslims??? Answer is simple term used in my profession - ROE (Return on Equity)....So let me repeat..Riots are fabricated by all parties not for love/hate against anybody but purely from the perspective of polarization and helping their cause...This is the reality of both 84 and 2002 where fault lines were exploited to fullest...

Here is an interesting link to Muzaffarnagar riots...

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/m...bjp-sp-and-bsp-fanned-the-flames-1110023.html

Does not being completely secular imply that it is communal? How will Congress gain from this polarization(say Hindu-muslim) where Congress have appeased muslims leaving out the other end(say hindus), It is understandable that BJP polarizing gets them united Hindu vote.

I have already proved how "current" you are with Indian current affairs, so stop saying that I've been ignorant, it is you who has shown the tendencies of ignorance

If the above is not an assertion then I am not sure what is...also about statements - I have explained you how Hindu's dont vote as a single entity and how their voting pattern is caste based...and that's why clearly said that this 14% vs 84% analogy is wrong...so how is this a mere statement..this is logically explaining a point..no??

Jeez!!! What are you upto? I asked you the following

"So tell me how Congress won vote with polarizing and getting a favour of just 14% of Indian population while antagonizing the rest?"

And you came with the below reply

"so that means your assertion that congress alienate 86% by appeasing 14% is wrong, no??"

So tell me what was I asserting or was I asserting at all? And you come up with a completely unrelated statement which is as follows...

"I have already proved how "current" you are with Indian current affairs, so stop saying that I've been ignorant, it is you who has shown the tendencies of ignorance"

Anyways I am done with this discussion as I know that you are too stubborn to accept facts, this is going to be my last post on this thread....

 

[deckingraj]

Nice evasion.... So not gonna answer it(That was expected). Is it not you who claimed that SG controlled MMS led Govt, so is the onus not on you to prove the same.

Let me summarize..there are two things...
a) MMS was controlled by Sonia - I have shared links way back
b) RSS controls BJP - This is what you want to prove and your supporting evidence is BJP attending RSS program where the agenda was to review Govt. performance. I believe we already had lengthy debate on this..so let me hit the point 1 one more time...

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/n...imself-to-look-like-sonias-patsy-1475623.html
This is MMS media adviser speaking..so what's your take on it?...We also have seen how MMS ordinance was trashed in public by Rahul Gandhi and the very next day how that ordinance was taken back...Now if this is not remote controlling to you then what else could be??

And as far as my ducking is concerned, I already made a statement in my earlier post

"Ok as far as the second post is concerned, I stand by what I claimed. I claimed that this is coming from BJP's very own 10 Janpath(Remote of BJP aka RSS). And I can post sources to to support my claim if you want to..."

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/rs-2000-...ogue-s-gurumurthy.466519/page-2#ixzz4UK4q5ocJ

So you ignored it while running round the circles when asked to prove what you claimed...

With due respect...if you already believe that MMS was controlled by Sonia then why are you asking me to prove it...RSS-BJP combo has been discussed by both of us to death...so what are we debating here??

Indeed you are avoiding and I've already answered what you asked for but in your own terms, I must say that the answering was only one way..

It would be better if you can point to the question as well...

Do you even understand what polarization means, Or do you want me post the meaning of it. I in clear terms asked you as to who were polarized and you did not reply to it. I even asked you if RG won because of sympathy votes after IG's death. Even this was not answered. So I ask you again, when you say polarization took place, tell who were polarized. Was it Hindus-Sikhs?

Please help me as to why you asked me the bold part...when I am talking about Sikh pogrom by Congress Mobs(making it look like riot)...when i even explained as to why there was a need to improve the stature of Rajiv Gandhi post IG(NCP after Rajiv is a living example of that fear) you are still asking me what were the poles?? In Hindu Sikh riots(it was actually a pogrom) who would be poles?? Hindu Muslims??

Now let me show what you have missed and not answered...
So if Sikh pogrom didn't create any polarization(electoral benefits) then please enlighten me as to why do you think would riots be manufactured?? What was the need to take list from Municipalities and attack innocent Sikhs that had nothing to do with IG killing?? Mind it i am not asking for any proofs just you POV...

Now can you please share your thoughts on the above question??

Cheap shots... Hmm that's expected LOL You say the comparison is that of apples and Oranges. But going by your narrative, let me tell you that there was also a conflict where large scale riots and terror attacks were a common phenomena all over the country during 90's and early part of 21st century, This was the time when muslims were targeted both during riots and after terror attacks. Many muslims were incarcerated and held with out proper charges similar to what you claimed have happened with Sikhs.

Dude i am not denying for a second that Muslim youths were not picked...however they were still secluded incidents...Let me take another example...In Kashmir there is an ongoing conflict...Human rights violation is a daily routine there...Do you believe that there is a comparable state or a place in rest of India?? Similarly Punjab of 90's is not comparable to those incidents you are talking about...When men(Sikh with turban) used to go out for work women were not sure they will return in the evening...this was the state for a decade....Muslim women would have faced the same agony but for short intervals...because when normalcy returns people go back to their routine...It took a whole decade for Punjab to return to normalcy..now let me ask...do you have a comparable time frame or state?? If not then it is comparing apples and oranges...

Are you telling me that India wasn't plagued by large scale riots and terror attacks which only receded recently? They is saying in Urdu which suits you aptly and which goes like this..."Apne ko aap, aur dusro ko tu"

Dude where did I deny large scale riots and terror attacks...however were they happening on daily basis...was there a conflict b/w a community and state on daily basis?? Rest i have explained above...

Problem is that you don't want to accept that you are wrong(even after proving), else we wouldn't have continued this conversation...

You haven't proven anything...may be in your mind you are convinced...I have in fact proven with point by point reasoning that they are two sides of the same coin...Either challenge those points or else concede that you are wrong so that we can move on...for your convenience i am adding those points again..
a) Both(communal politics and appeasement politics) cause alienation
b) Both breaks secular credentials of a state...
c) Both are done for the sake of vote bank politics...

Did you even read what I've been posting all through these 7 pages? Where did I claim that Congress is truly secular party? But does that mean BJP is not a communal party? Of course not.

May I put the same charge back to you...Did you read at all what i have been posting...All parties are communal/secular depending upon where there vote bank is...Now let me ask again...Congress is not secular...Congress is not communal - then what is that party??

Was Cow Slaughter ban an emotive issue for muslims? No it was not. Was Babri masjid an emotive issue for muslims? Yes it was. Can Cow Slaughter ban in any way be compared to the demolition of a place of worship for muslims? Ofcourse not. So had Congress bowed in to pressure(though it did open the gates of Babri masjid for hindu prayers) from Hindutva and demolished Babri Masjid to construct Ram mandir, what do you think would have happened? There would have been a civil war for sure. Know the schematics before drawing comparisons and coming to a conclusion...

I know the schematics...but for some reason you either forget the context or still not getting the gist...The point we are debating was - "Majority is the authority" is not what democracy is all about(which is your claim)...In short you can't use the card that govt. was forced by right wing on cow slaughter way back in 60's.the onus is on the Govt....

So as per your standards of comprehension skills, they were no sources of moral values earlier hence Gita was required so that values can be imparted . How did you get to know the intention of BJP?

The first bold part is your claim not mine...so yeah you should check your comprehension skills....Second bold part is what BJP claimed...and when they agreed to also teach Quran and Bible I find that claim reasonable....

Does Court ruling deny the fact that it is Hindu religious scripture(Its teachings may/may not be religious)? Does the court also rule that BJP's intention of bringing in Gita into academics was to impart moral values? Irrespective of what the court says, the very point that people from minority communities have gone to court against the introduction of Gita speaks volumes about BJP's intentions and minorities' aversion towards the move.

Sure but then don't bring in courts when you talk about BJP removing Muslim quotas in Maharashtra.....

Don't you think, you answered yourself? When you state that to grab muslim, development agenda is what is required, then what went wrong with BJP? Why didn't muslims vote for BJP since BJP was "reportedly" pitching development during 2014 LS Polls. Did muslims not want development?

Not sure what lala land you are living in...May be you want to look at everything as a Muslim...The narrative that has been build is that BJP is a communal party....however the fact is that BJP is as much communal as any other party.....The facts on the ground is very different from the narrative however at the end of the day perception counts...and development is the only model to change the narrative... As far as bold part is concerned then every one wants development...but do we vote with development in mind?? When Hindus vote based on caste do they don't want development?? So it is not black and white...things are changing however it will take time before we start voting as Indians...

But you didn't explain as to why muslims as an entity not vote for BJP since according to you all the parties(including Congress) are equally communal?

I have ...and that too many times...however you want spoon feeding all the time...Muslims as an entity don't vote for BJP because the narrative out there is that BJP is anti-muslim...This is similar to the narrative that being a Yadav I should vote only for Yadav...Being a Dalit I should vote for a Dalit candidate etc etc...It is very hard to break such narratives and that's why said only model for BJP to get into Muslim vote is development...In short prove your worth first and then expect the vote...

See you state it again supported with the very source I posted, so I ask you again, if muslims have voted for Modi's BJP here, why has this not being a regular pattern elsewhere?

So are you saying that BJP is not communal in Gujrat however is communal elsewhere?? ....Let me help one more time... Modi needed a makeover after the Gujrat riots...why - because even though Gujrat riots were the best in terms of administration performance(which was still pathetic IMHO) the 24/7 media made him look like a butcher...He knew development is the only model to break the narrative...rest is history...

Does not being completely secular imply that it is communal? How will Congress gain from this polarization(say Hindu-muslim) where Congress have appeased muslims leaving out the other end(say hindus), It is understandable that BJP polarizing gets them united Hindu vote.

Because you are stuck on a narrative that has been build by sheer ignorance...check all the election results..As per you BJP is communal...polarization make Hindus vote as a single entity and yet even after having the backing of 84% population they never manage to get to power on their own before Modi...now try and remove your ignorance by researching one fact - Hindu's don't vote as a single entity...A recent example - Check how Mayawati is openly asking Muslims and Dalits to not vote for Congress, SP so that BJP don't win seats....

Jeez!!! What are you upto? I asked you the following..."So tell me how Congress won vote with polarizing and getting a favour of just 14% of Indian population while antagonizing the rest?" And you came with the below reply"so that means your assertion that congress alienate 86% by appeasing 14% is wrong, no??" So tell me what was I asserting or was I asserting at all? And you come up with a completely unrelated statement which is as follows..."I have already proved how "current" you are with Indian current affairs, so stop saying that I've been ignorant, it is you who has shown the tendencies of ignorance"

It will sound alien to as long as you keep believing that like Muslims Hindus also vote as a single entity...All the election results are out there for public consumption...so try to educate yourself...

Anyways I am done with this discussion as I know that you are too stubborn to accept facts, this is going to be my last post on this thread....

Funny that even though you have shown ignorance on so many issuer at epic level yet calling me stubborn...Running away from a discussion or not is your prerogative....I will be more than happy to educate you further should you want to continue..