Rise of Turkey - 21st Century's first Muslim power.

[Hurter]

@Horus Why I am deprived from replying to Indians most of the time while discussing something? Isn't that bit unfair?

 

[Kompromat]

Pakistan at first needs a hard hand,without it nothing will change.
I would want to see the Chinese model in Pakistan.

Have you ever wondered how we managed to fight and defeat multiple insurgencies for 1.5 decades?

Our biggest strength is NOT our military. Our Army is only the hard hand of our society. We Pakistanis created a country based on a 'historic narrative' which anchors us firmly in our past as a nation. This along with our rather old and evolved culture is the reason why we have not become Syria, Libya or Iraq. Our society has the capability to defeat whatever threat we face, we take our time to develop a national narrative, but once its developed, we follow it right up to the end.

Chinese model has been tried in Pakistan under Bhutto and hasn't worked. We are a multicultural society and the only way we can make ourselves function as a modern nation state is through a strong democratic state that is flexible and inclusive to all citizens as well as preserves our Muslim identity...be it only in name. We have suffered greatly to identify ourselves as Muslims and forge a separate identity, giving it up is not easy nor wise, since it is the source of our historic narrative.

@Horus Why I am deprived from replying to Indians most of the time while discussing something? Isn't that bit unfair?

How come?

 

[Hurter]

Have you ever wondered how we managed to fight and defeat multiple insurgencies for 1.5 decades?

Our biggest strength is NOT our military. Our Army is only the hard hand of our society. We Pakistanis created a country based on a 'historic narrative' which anchors us firmly in our past as a nation. This along with our rather old and evolved culture is the reason why we have not become Syria, Libya or Iraq. Our society has the capability to defeat whatever threat we face, we take our time to develop a national narrative, but once its developed, we follow it right up to the end.

Chinese model has been tried in Pakistan under Bhutto and hasn't worked. We are a multicultural society and the only way we can make ourselves function as a modern nation state is through a strong democratic state that is flexible and inclusive to all citizens as well as preserves our Muslim identity...be it only in name. We have suffered greatly to identify ourselves as Muslims and forge a separate identity, giving it up is not easy nor wise, since it is the source of our historic narrative.



How come?

That post has been deleted now... Misconception

 

[damm1t]

It may sound like conspiracy to some but sane minds clearly analyze that from the beginning of modern history there is a destabiliser process of Islamic and muslim majority poulated countries in progress. Take examples of Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and 80's of Turkey. They did it well, USA-led western hegamony will try anything in order to keep us "colonized" with an arguable term. How come the most of terrorist groups are Islamic origin, I don't want to attach it to any religious concept but isn't it just weird to you? That's why the secularism is the best way for a Muslim country to get rid of this modern times slavery related to religious concepts. With this way we will not let them to use religion card on the nations. That's why Turkey has the most resistant inner dynamics against outer effects. Secularism won't take your religion away from you, but will help you widen your world in order to catch the train of civilization. As long as people would respect this concept, Islamic world would run the globe by now.

 

[T-123456]

Have you ever wondered how we managed to fight and defeat multiple insurgencies for 1.5 decades?

Our biggest strength is NOT our military. Our Army is only the hard hand of our society. We Pakistanis created a country based on a 'historic narrative' which anchors us firmly in our past as a nation. This along with our rather old and evolved culture is the reason why we have not become Syria, Libya or Iraq. Our society has the capability to defeat whatever threat we face, we take our time to develop a national narrative, but once its developed, we follow it right up to the end.

Chinese model has been tried in Pakistan under Bhutto and hasn't worked. We are a multicultural society and the only way we can make ourselves function as a modern nation state is through a strong democratic state that is flexible and inclusive to all citizens as well as preserves our Muslim identity...be it only in name. We have suffered greatly to identify ourselves as Muslims and forge a separate identity, giving it up is not easy nor wise, since it is the source of our historic narrative.



How come?

Who said something about giving up your religious identity?
Since you mentioned it,did you lose your Muslim identity under military rule?
Havent you tried an inclusive democratic state for 6/7 years now?

 

[Kompromat]

Who said something about giving up your religious identity?
Since you mentioned it,did you lose your Muslim identity under military rule?
Havent you tried an inclusive democratic state for 6/7 years now?[/quote]

With some success, i am hopeful. I am a democrat and i firmly believe that people power will change Pakistan.

With some success, i am hopeful. I am a democrat and i firmly believe that people power will change Pakistan.

 

[T-123456]

It may sound like conspiracy to some but sane minds clearly analyze that from the beginning of modern history there is a destabiliser process of Islamic and muslim majority poulated countries in progress. Take examples of Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and 80's of Turkey. They did it well, USA-led western hegamony will try anything in order to keep us "colonized" with an arguable term. How come the most of terrorist groups are Islamic origin, I don't want to attach it to any religious concept but isn't it just weird to you? That's why the secularism is the best way for a Muslim country to get rid of this modern times slavery related to religious concepts. With this way we will not let them to use religion card on the nations. That's why Turkey has the most resistant inner dynamics against outer effects. Secularism won't take your religion away from you, but will help you widen your world in order to catch the train of civilization. As long as people would respect this concept, Islamic world would run the globe by now.

The problem is that secularism in Pakistan is not what we know it to be ,secularists in Pakistan are seen as extreme fanatics(many are).

 

[C130]

Turkey should assume more of a leadership role in the Muslim world.
if IS and their ideology succeed all that Turkey has gained and any other Muslim country will be thrown back to the 8th century of thinking.

i feel bad you all didn't win the seat for the UN security council.

 

[damm1t]

The problem is that secularism in Pakistan is not what we know it to be ,secularists in Pakistan are seen as extreme fanatics(many are).

Change doesn't happen over night since the west doesn't want stable and independent Muslim nations. We also didn't complete the process, let's hope the best for both Turkey and Pakistan on this way.

i feel bad you all didn't win the seat for the UN security council.

A seat at UNSC means something to voice things louder but unless the 5 permanent member with veto power doesn't change it has no value to change things. That's why I support "The world is bigger than 5" movement...

Bigger Than Five | The world is bigger than five!

 

[C130]

Change doesn't happen over night since the west doesn't want stable and independent Muslim nations. We also didn't complete the process, let's hope the best for both Turkey and Pakistan on this way.



A seat at UNSC means something to voice things louder but unless the 5 permanent member with veto power doesn't change it has no value to change things. That's why I support "The world is bigger than 5" movement...

Bigger Than Five | The world is bigger than five!

it's not that big of the deal, but still something most countries would love to be on.
Venezuela in particular.

 

[T-123456]

Turkey should assume more of a leadership role in the Muslim world.
if IS and their ideology succeed all that Turkey has gained and any other Muslim country will be thrown back to the 8th century of thinking.

i feel bad you all didn't win the seat for the UN security council.

What good is a seat when it has no meaning(UN)?
Dont you get it or dont you want to get it?
You think we care about what IS can do or not to us?
What is it with all those who have no idea of the neighbourhood always talk about the danger of IS?
Seen a couple Kurds/Shia Arabs beheaded,Yezidi girls sold,people stoned and IS is a threat to the world?
All of these things happened before in almost every Muslim country/region where extreme islamists rule,so nothing new there and nobody cared.
Why all of a sudden the world cares?
We Turks look out for our own interests,PKK/PYD/YPG are our enemies,you want IS gone,you do it yourselves.
Saddam,Gaddafi you sent away,why not IS?

 

[1000]

Have you ever wondered how we managed to fight and defeat multiple insurgencies for 1.5 decades?

Our biggest strength is NOT our military. Our Army is only the hard hand of our society. We Pakistanis created a country based on a 'historic narrative' which anchors us firmly in our past as a nation. This along with our rather old and evolved culture is the reason why we have not become Syria, Libya or Iraq. Our society has the capability to defeat whatever threat we face, we take our time to develop a national narrative, but once its developed, we follow it right up to the end.

So Pakistan has an old and evolved culture whilst countries like Libya, Syria and Iraq don't despite all the history and culture they have ? Sounds like you're holding a rant of pride whilst none of it is even true. Pakistan has not even faced a threat from a superpower like the US as Libya and Iraq have multiple times, as for Syria it has become the Vietnam / Korea battlefield for 2 world powers Russia & USA, add with that some regional countries using Sunni and Shia religion to fuel it even more you have todays Syria with 5+ sides fighting each other. Being able to fight the insurgency threat which was partially created by Pakistan gov itself doesn't sound like an accomplishment.

Nothing but nationalistic bullshit you just wrote.

 

[C130]

What good is a seat when it has no meaning(UN)?
Dont you get it or dont you want to get it?
You think we care about what IS can do or not to us?
What is it with all those who have no idea of the neighbourhood always talk about the danger of IS?
Seen a couple Kurds/Shia Arabs beheaded,Yezidi girls sold,people stoned and IS is a threat to the world?
All of these things happened before in almost every Muslim country/region where extreme islamists rule,so nothing new there and nobody cared.
Why all of a sudden the world cares?
We Turks look out for our own interests,PKK/PYD/YPG are our enemies,you want IS gone,you do it yourselves.
Saddam,Gaddafi you sent away,why not IS?

heh, if you think this perverse ideology is going to leave Turkey untouched especially when it's right at your doorstep you are in for a rude awakening.

 

[damm1t]

it's not that big of the deal, but still something most countries would love to be on.
Venezuela in particular.

It's a new movement.. President Erdogan lately talked about it at UN council, criticized and told with the exact words "the world is bigger than five"... Countries with big economies already press about it and with time more will follow, specially small and medium sized countries that wish more equality..

 

[Norwegian]

Who's next, Indonesia?

Iran