You are wasting your time......it will be replied by "Evil India we will nuke you free Kashmir and get revenge" type of posts.My Dear Sir.
1. You were not quoted.
2. Keep discourse civil, if you can not, then do not quote me.
3. Typical of you uncouth types, had you used your brains instead, you would have not made an *** of yourself.
But seeing that you insist, carry on.
NEW DELHI, Aug. 28—India and Pakistan signed an agreement here today clearing the way for the. release of most of the 90,000 ‘Pakistani prisoners held in India and for settlement of other problems arising from their war in December,.1971.
The accord, reached after 19 days of difficult negotiations spread, over two months in Islamabad and New Delhi, also provides a procedure for Pakistani recognition of Bangladesh. Bangledesh, the Bengali region that until December, 1971, was the eastern wing of Pakistan, did not participate in the negotiations since her independence had not yet been recognized by the Pakistanis.
However, Sheik. Mujibur Rahman, Prime Minister of Bangladesh, had been consulted by India during the negotiations, and his Foreign Minister, Kemal Hossain, said today in Dacca: “We are fully satisfied with the agreement. It has our full concurrence.”
A Tacit Agreement
Other key provisions call for the release of Bangladesh and Pakistani nationals stranded in the two countries.
The most crucial point was said to be tacit agreement by Bangladesh, in exchange for the recognition by Pakistan, to :Iron her threat to hold warcrimes trials. In return’ Pakistan appears to have droppcd her plan to hold 203 Bengalis for trial as a reprisal for any war‐crimes action in Bangladesh.
https://www.nytimes.com/1973/08/29/...00-pakistanis-in-peace-accord-hardsought.html
For your information, they were held in a large camp outside of Meerut, near Delhi, for their period of internment pending settlement of negotiations. That information is not in the newspaper
If you had used you brains instead of shoveling dirt to revel in your fantasy, your own side's revised attempts are as quoted:
The fact is that the total strength of the Pakistan army troops posted in East Pakistan as of December 16, 1971, was only about 34,000. With the addition of Rangers, scouts, militia and civil police, the total strength of personnel deployed to defend East Pakistan was only 45,000.
https://www.dawn.com/news/773291
Already, 30000 has gone out of the window
Now let us examine the troops strength:
01 x Infantry Division i.e. 14th Infantry Division
Composition:
1. 57th infantry brigade (under Brig. Jahanzab Arbab) - Dacca
2. 53rd (Brig. Iqbal Shafi) - Comilla
3. 23rd (Brig. Abdullah Khan Malik) - Rangpur
4. 107th (Brig. A.R. Durrani) - Jessore
Units:
12 x Infantry Battalions (912 men each)
05 x Artillery Units
3rd Commando
Light Anti-aircraft Regiment
29th Cavalry
PAF
20 x F-86
03 x T33
04 x Mi8
04 x Allouette III
C-130s attached later
PN
PNS Rajshai
PNS Jessore
PNS Comilla
PNS Sylhet
Additional forces:
1, 2, 3, 4, 8 and 9 alongwith 10 (training) East Bengal Regiment - regular infantry units attached with Brigades
East Pakistan Rifles - strength 15000 (replaced by EPCAF with 17 Wings, 7 Sectors estimated strength of 20000)
East Bengal Police Forces (numbers not known)
Additional Forces flown in:
9th Infantry Division with 27, 313 and 117 Infantry Brigade
16th Infantry Division with 34 and 205 Infantry Brigade with total of 16 Infantry Units
Additionally 02 wings each of East Pakistan Civil Armed Force, West Pakistan Rangers, Tochi and Thal Scouts
Civil Police Force from West Pakistan about 5000, Razakaars about 40,000 odd and Al-Badr, Al-Shams of Jamat-i-Islami of another couple of 1000s.
Approximate Strength of 45000 regular army troops (for the standard Infantry Division here, not taking into account naval and air strength), 95000 of Paramilitary Forces intermixed with Police and Irregular forces.
Now you know what to do with yourself
@Joe Shearer Look what crawled out from a hole
Revisiting the tragedy of December 1971
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You will be banned at this rate.....
Joe Shearer
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Some of these respondents seem to have nothing better to do than unbutton, inspect themselves at anxious intervals and come out with a physiological remark aimed at their adversary of the moment. Quite clearly, their self-image has nothing to do with the mind or with reasoning or with anything remotely cerebral; even in a discussion, if I may coin a phrase, they have to clutch at these straws.
PAKISTANFOREVER
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https://dailytimes.com.pk/329368/revisiting-the-tragedy-of-december-1971/
A man entered the commanding general’s chamber and handed him a chit: It read, “My Dear Abdullah, we have got you surrounded…Maj.-Gen. Gandharv Nagra.” The commanding general recognised the name. The two had been class mates at the Indian Military Academy. But how had the Indian forces broken through the security perimeter around Dhaka so quickly?
Lt.-Gen. A. A. K. Niazi was no longer his jovial self. When the situation had turned dire, Niazi had broken down in the company of other officers. He had let out a loud scream and begun sobbing like a baby.
This tale of woe is recounted in the memoirs of Maj.-Gen. Rao Farman Ali Khan, advisor to the governor on civil-military relations, How Pakistan Got Divided.
On December 16, 1971, East Pakistan broke away, making Pakistan the first major country that gained independence after the Second World War to break up into two.
The East had been simmering with a civil war since March when General Yahya Khan, the military ruler of Pakistan, refused to convene the National Assembly in Dhaka, preventing the Awami League led by Shaikh Mujib from forming a democratic government even though it had an absolute majority in parliament. Fighting intensified as the months progressed. Pakistan flew in two additional divisions to assist the sole division that was posted in the East. But they came without the usual complement of armor and artillery.
As the violence progressed, refugees began to stream into Indian Bengal and sometime in November Indian forces began to unleash an artillery barrage into East Pakistan. Pakistan upped the ante on the December 3 in the West when it sent its fighter bombers to raid Indian airfields in the West. The attack was anticipated and did not cause much harm to the IAF. Instead, it backfired, by giving India the excuse to unleash its full fury on the Pakistani army in the East.
In less than two weeks, the Eastern Garrison surrendered unconditionally. Its troops were fatigued by months of fighting an insurgency and badly outnumbered vis-à-vis India. The results were a foregone conclusion.
Rao Farman enumerates the reasons for the breakup. First, there was the result of the national elections of 1970. East Pakistanis accounted for 55 percent of the population but felt that the West, where the military and civil of the country resided, treated them like a colony of the West. They contributed a large share of the export earnings but their per capita income was significantly lower. Thus, the Awami League, won all but 2 seats in East Pakistan and that gave them 160 seats, an absolute majority in the National Assembly.
Second, General Yahya Khan, the military ruler, cancelled the session of the national assembly in Dhaka in March. He did this on the urging of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, the chairman of the Pakistan People’s Party which was based entirely in the West. Bhutto connived with senior generals in the army to put pressure on Yahya to not convene the assembly because it would guarantee the transfer of power to the east, an unimaginable catastrophe for the generals and top bureaucrats in the West.
Third, when the situation deteriorated, he was advised by the governor, Vice Admiral Ahsan, and the military commander in the east, Maj.-Gen. Sahabzada Yaqub, to come and visit Shaikh Mujib, the head of the Awami League, in order to resolve the impasse. Yahya refused and would never again visit the East. Both the admiral and the general resigned their posts. Replacements were named, including Lt.-Gen. Tikka Khan and later Lt.-Gen. Niazi.
Fourth, a civil war broke out in the East when the army resorted to military action to establish the “writ of the state.” Members of the Awami League were termed “miscreants” and arrested, jailed or shot dead. By the end of March, the authority of the Pakistan government had ceased to exist. All governmental departments were reporting to Mujib.
Fifth, the army’s 45,000 troops were unable to quell the open rebellion that had broken out among the 75 million people of East Pakistan. Hindu refugees were spilling over into India, making the situation untenable. War with India was imminent.
Sixth, the generals were deluded into thinking that they had the situation under control and that should India attack in the East, they would open a second front in the West and neutralise the Indian operation. They appeared to be believing in a fool’s paradise. He had done his best to present an accurate assessment of the situation to them. But the hawks in the West dismissed him for being a dove, as they had dismissed Ahsan and Yaqub.
Seventh, once military operations began, India neutralised the single PAF squadron in the East by blasting the runways. Only six helicopters remained in flying condition. The artillery equipment was obsolete with a limited range.
And, eighth, to compound matters, Niazi choose to deploy the troops in “penny packets” around the long border with India, a point also noted by Captain (later brigadier) Siddiq Salik in his memoir, Witness to Surrender.
When the day of reckoning arrived, and the two generals met, Niazi began by reciting Urdu couplets to impress Nagra. When Nagra replied that he had a master’s degree in Persian from Government College, Lahore, Niazi switched to Punjabi.
After the surrender, he retreated to the tents to party with the Indian generals. The shame of surrender was no longer on his shoulders and he began to exchange ribald jokes with his former classmates. Rao Farman says he lost whatever little respect he had for Niazi at that time.
With pathos, Rao Farman concludes, “The [Army’s] Higher Command … lacked sense of direction, political sagacity and sound military judgment…Though it took another nine months to take shape, the breakup of the country was the direct …consequence of two major political decisions: first, to postpone the National Assembly session and second, to launch military action.”
The general, who was later the minister of petroleum in General Zia’s government, does not blame India for the breakup of Pakistan, unlike Yahya Khan (and many others) who blamed it “on the treachery of the Indians.” Nor does he put the blame squarely on Bhutto. After all, the country was under military rule.
The book is a must-read, not because it’s a scholarly work replete with footnotes and sources, but because it’s written by a general officer of the Pakistani army who was on the ground during the war and who saw history in the making.
Published in Daily Times, December 4th 2018.
No tragedy. Just human nature. bangladesh is 6× smaller than Pakistan. Not even 17% the size of Pakistan. bangladesh was created for the same reason Pakistan was created in 1947. You CANNOT form a nation with people who are completely different to one another in terms of race, religion, culture, heritage, language etc and who are also 3000 kms away from you. Impossible.
Look they get triggered by YouTube comments to make a thread in PDF......
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what-is-wrong-with-bdeishi-people.590060/
I agree, we should celebrate 16thbDecember together.
Tagged you to know another joker to ignore.
At this rate, we will be talking with just a few members who can be counted by me on my fingers without taking off my shoes
PAKISTANFOREVER
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No need for me to celebrate. I'm not a bangladeshi nor do I have anything in common with them. I am completely indifferent to them.
You should celebrate the fact that Pakistan became free of burden that day....got rid of an alien race from their country and became pure...which would eventually encourage mullah domination and Arabz feelz. Let's party...cheers..
Rusty
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Someone is overcompensating..... Wonder why....My Dear Sir.
1. You were not quoted.
2. Keep discourse civil, if you can not, then do not quote me.
3. Typical of you uncouth types, had you used your brains instead, you would have not made an *** of yourself.
But seeing that you insist, carry on.
NEW DELHI, Aug. 28—India and Pakistan signed an agreement here today clearing the way for the. release of most of the 90,000 ‘Pakistani prisoners held in India and for settlement of other problems arising from their war in December,.1971.
The accord, reached after 19 days of difficult negotiations spread, over two months in Islamabad and New Delhi, also provides a procedure for Pakistani recognition of Bangladesh. Bangledesh, the Bengali region that until December, 1971, was the eastern wing of Pakistan, did not participate in the negotiations since her independence had not yet been recognized by the Pakistanis.
However, Sheik. Mujibur Rahman, Prime Minister of Bangladesh, had been consulted by India during the negotiations, and his Foreign Minister, Kemal Hossain, said today in Dacca: “We are fully satisfied with the agreement. It has our full concurrence.”
A Tacit Agreement
Other key provisions call for the release of Bangladesh and Pakistani nationals stranded in the two countries.
The most crucial point was said to be tacit agreement by Bangladesh, in exchange for the recognition by Pakistan, to :Iron her threat to hold warcrimes trials. In return’ Pakistan appears to have droppcd her plan to hold 203 Bengalis for trial as a reprisal for any war‐crimes action in Bangladesh.
https://www.nytimes.com/1973/08/29/...00-pakistanis-in-peace-accord-hardsought.html
For your information, they were held in a large camp outside of Meerut, near Delhi, for their period of internment pending settlement of negotiations. That information is not in the newspaper
If you had used you brains instead of shoveling dirt to revel in your fantasy, your own side's revised attempts are as quoted:
The fact is that the total strength of the Pakistan army troops posted in East Pakistan as of December 16, 1971, was only about 34,000. With the addition of Rangers, scouts, militia and civil police, the total strength of personnel deployed to defend East Pakistan was only 45,000.
https://www.dawn.com/news/773291
Already, 30000 has gone out of the window
Now let us examine the troops strength:
01 x Infantry Division i.e. 14th Infantry Division
Composition:
1. 57th infantry brigade (under Brig. Jahanzab Arbab) - Dacca
2. 53rd (Brig. Iqbal Shafi) - Comilla
3. 23rd (Brig. Abdullah Khan Malik) - Rangpur
4. 107th (Brig. A.R. Durrani) - Jessore
Units:
12 x Infantry Battalions (912 men each)
05 x Artillery Units
3rd Commando
Light Anti-aircraft Regiment
29th Cavalry
PAF
20 x F-86
03 x T33
04 x Mi8
04 x Allouette III
C-130s attached later
PN
PNS Rajshai
PNS Jessore
PNS Comilla
PNS Sylhet
Additional forces:
1, 2, 3, 4, 8 and 9 alongwith 10 (training) East Bengal Regiment - regular infantry units attached with Brigades
East Pakistan Rifles - strength 15000 (replaced by EPCAF with 17 Wings, 7 Sectors estimated strength of 20000)
East Bengal Police Forces (numbers not known)
Additional Forces flown in:
9th Infantry Division with 27, 313 and 117 Infantry Brigade
16th Infantry Division with 34 and 205 Infantry Brigade with total of 16 Infantry Units
Additionally 02 wings each of East Pakistan Civil Armed Force, West Pakistan Rangers, Tochi and Thal Scouts
Civil Police Force from West Pakistan about 5000, Razakaars about 40,000 odd and Al-Badr, Al-Shams of Jamat-i-Islami of another couple of 1000s.
Approximate Strength of 45000 regular army troops (for the standard Infantry Division here, not taking into account naval and air strength), 95000 of Paramilitary Forces intermixed with Police and Irregular forces.
Now you know what to do with yourself
@Joe Shearer Look what crawled out from a hole
You thought 4 inches was enough to a cower us.
Buddy you claimed 90,000 SOLDIERS!
okay I was wrong, it wasn't 30k, it was 45... But i wasnt so far off that I had to write a wall of text to hide my....ehem....shame...
PAKISTANFOREVER
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You should celebrate the fact that Pakistan became free of burden that day....got rid of an alien race from their country and became pure...which would eventually encourage mullah domination and Arabz feelz. Let's party...cheers..
So much so that the one of only 2 global superpowers have already invested in at least $65 billion in Pakistan with many more billions earmarked for further investment in the coming years and decades.........
Not to mention we have gone on to become the world's first ever Muslim nuclear weapons state with the ability to now produce H-bombs and thermonuclear weapons.....
:http://isis-online.org/isis-reports...g-nuclear-weapons-time-for-pakistan-to-rever/
But those 45,000 Pakistani soldiers had to be surrounded by 100 million bengalis, 500 million indians, 3000 kms from home to force a surrender. I don't even think the Predators or Jedi would have survived such odds........
Joe Shearer
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Tagged you to know another joker to ignore.
At this rate, we will be talking with just a few members who can be counted by me on my fingers without taking off my shoes
I know you won't believe me, but @Rusty has his good days and his bad days. Like many PDF members, he has a different personality on PDF and another, real one (I like to think) in real life.
On PDF, talking of defence, those who are half-way realistic know what Oscar has pointed out elsewhere, that the Indian military are using the optics of the China front to build up their force superiority on the ground to that required 3:1 ratio.
We all know what serious effort is going into the Chinese front: nothing. It is a completely different theatre of warfare, and one where we fight with the disadvantage of the other side having a shorter distance to get to any particular sector, having a better infrastructure, and having smoothed its logistics and movement capabilities to a fine-honed art. All while we labour with the BRO doing patchwork, with not a single innovative thought either in war-fighting or in movement of men and materials.
Considering this, it is natural that they react viscerally. Look, for instance, at the nonsense that an otherwise brainy and intellectually agile member inflicts on us at #4 (look below). I nearly laughed myself into hiccups reading it; what should we have done? Dropped our visors and held the bridge against the next challenger to come along?
That, by the way, is essentially how any opponent (not India alone, any opponent) will have to take out the robust, fighting-fit Pakistan Army.
I understand you are still shoveling dirt .. ehem ... keep shoveling
Fun to note soldiers are not called soldiers in Pakistan's Paramilitary and Police Forces
And now, you are ignored
Joe Shearer
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Quite so. You Europeans should stay out of the silly natives' squabbles.
I understand you are still shoveling dirt .. ehem ... keep shoveling
Fun to note soldiers are not called soldiers in Pakistan's Paramilitary and Police Forces
And now, you are ignored
Of course they aren't, you silly chap. They lost. Remember Kargil? and the unclaimed bodies?
Rusty is becoming rusty watching too much p0rn ... and fantasizing becoming a Congolese in next birth
I love how the dumbo is squirming ... new one ... only Pakistani Army soldiers are called as soldiers ... wonder what are Paramilitary Forces called?
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