Retracing my Indian ancestral roots

[Truth Teller]

Really? I didn't know Sayyid/Syyed and Qureshis were ethnic groups. No online research or definitions describe them as such. I thought they were Arabic surnames or titles which certain people use to claim a common descent or lineage from throughout the Middle East, Central Asia and South Asia. Anyways, in regards to genetics and phenotype, there are not much different from other Punjabis unless they're are genetic tests to prove otherwise. Culturally, I'm not sure but I would think they are similar to other Pakistani Punjabis with variations from region to region.

Jatts, Gujjars and Rajputs could be considered sub-ethnic groups of Punjabis though but even then, they are genetically and culturally similar. Origins might vary though.

Arian's apparently claim descent from the army of Ibn Qasim. Similar to Sayyid and Qureshis in the sense of claiming an Arab ancestor. Haven't heard of Raos and Maliks.

Anyways, for the most part, Punjabis are genetically very similar. Culturally, they are very similar as well but certain cultural differences will be seen between different regions of greater Punjab and obvious cultural differences between Muslim vs. Sikh vs. Hindu Punjabis.

Syeds-Qureshis and god knows what else, are not ethnic groups in Pakistan. Syed-Qureshi are nothing more than a name and title, used by groups who lost their true name and identity over the years.

I agree with most of your post.

 

[Truth Teller]

Also many Punjabis are ethinically rajput, aryan, persian and azeri.

Since you are not a Punjabi, who are you to make claims like this about Punjabis. There is very little Arab, Persian, Turk contribution to the Punjabi gene pool.

Those Punjabi who claim descent from invaders should be ashamed of themselves. They lost their names and identity over the centuries, and that is nothing to be proud about.

 

[somebozo]

Since you are not a Punjabi, who are you to make claims like this about Punjabis. There is very little Arab, Persian, Turk contribution to the Punjabi gene pool.

Those Punjabi who claim descent from invaders should be ashamed of themselves. They lost their names and identity over the centuries, and that is nothing to be proud about.

An expert eye can trace person ethnicity by their facial features, fingers and toes. It not about making claim but talking one experience.

I have seen all kind of genealogy among Punjabis. Azeri, Persian, Mesopotamian, Arab-Roman (Syriac or Byzanite), Aryan and Rajput gene-pool seems dominant in among Punjabis. Many Punjabis who claim Arab ancestry are actually Byzantine because Arabs captured the Roman lands (Syria and Lebanon at large) and Arabized them. Later with Mohammed bin Qasim, several thousand Syrian cavalry men came and settled into Multan.

Offcourse my statement is limited to Pakistani-Punjab.
The Indian-Punjab is whole lot different story.

Ethnicities and races do not come from the sky, rather they form over a period of generations by constant intermarriage between a limited group of people. In other words, If a group of people were let on a remote island, over a period of generations through constant intermarriage they will develop dominant ethnic features which will come to identify them.

Syeds-Qureshis and god knows what else, are not ethnic groups in Pakistan. Syed-Qureshi are nothing more than a name and title, used by groups who lost their true name and identity over the years.

I agree with most of your post.

Syed, Naqvi, Zaydi, Alavi, Hasmeite, Qurayshi are not ethnics but bloodlines which trace their lineance to certain tribe, group or person. Due to no historical and creditable records many of them can be considered bogus. Many people traveled to far far lands and assumed falsified identities to amass fame and respect among the community.

Syed was supposed to mean from the family of prophet but under Safvid empire they award this title like a fashion accessory much like the English "Sir" title so it has lost its significance.

Qureshis are supposed to be from the Quraysh tribe of Makkah and many do have a verifiable family tree and same applies for Hashmis who fled Arabia due to constant power struggles between Abbasids and Ummayads. They later scattered all around the Indian subcontinents, Persia, Transjordan and Palestine. The ruling family of Jordan is a Hashmeite.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Also many Punjabis are ethinically rajput, aryan, persian and azeri.

What's so great about these bloodlines?

All bit the dust sometime or the other.

 

[Vibs]

Since you are not a Punjabi, who are you to make claims like this about Punjabis. There is very little Arab, Persian, Turk contribution to the Punjabi gene pool.

Those Punjabi who claim descent from invaders should be ashamed of themselves. They lost their names and identity over the centuries, and that is nothing to be proud about.

That's a surprisingly ignorant post. There will be a huge contribution to the local gene pool not just because of invaders but because of traders who may have settled here. Punjab, of both India and Pakistan was the route between mainland India and middle East-Europe. Also during partition,a whole lot of migrants from either country settled into Punjab on both sides. That area is bound to have a huge mix in the gene pool!!!

 

[somebozo]

And another shocker..nearly 60% of the Sindhi landlords and residents actually have Balouch roots.
Because baluch were martial tribes who constantly invaded the rich pleatu of Sindh for food security and occupied large swathes of lands.

Therefore, even Sindhis are not a singular ethinic group either.

 

[Avisheik]

Its very interesting to see a lot of indians in pdf are bengali. Whats more is that they came from bangladesh. As for me, I can only trace back my family history only 4 generation back, from this knowledge i can conclude that i am 100% bengali from bengal

 

[xLancex]

Very informative thread. A lot of Pakistanis originally from parts of India and vise versa. Interesting

 

[Talha Butt]

I've been viewing this ridiculous post for quite some time now. Its pathetic. Seems more like some Pakistanis trying to broaden their connections with a useless Indian past. Assuming that there are some decent people genuinely interested on the question of geneology, I will also share some details of my background. I come from a family from Lahore and Gujranwala. My great great nanabu and my dadabu were Kashmiris but so was the rest of my entire family but they were actually born in Baramulla in occupied Kashmir, an area in close proximity to the LOC. But my nanabu's family lived in Amritsar where they were really wealthy and my nano's family[also pure ethnic Kashmiris] lived in Ludhiana. My nano's family migrated to Gujranwala and nana's to Lahore.We Kashmiris in Punjab and Azad Kashmir maintain our Kashmiri ethnicity and most still marry only Kashmiris, yet we are proud of being the Muslims of Pakistan, working for Pakistan and the Ummah. We feel no bond to Amritsar or Ludhiana as they are in India but someof my family do feel some sort of connection with occupied Kashmir, where our family lived for thousands of years. They were Hindu Brahmans[as our surname Butt,derived from Bhatt, suggests which in Sanskrit means 'scholar']. Anyways I feel proud that my ancestors converted to Islam despite having all the privileges of the Hindu caste system at their feet as they were the highest castemembers and were Kashmiri Pandits. I feel no connection whatsoever to our Hindu past though. It turns out Allama Iqbal's grandfather was also a Kashmiri Pandit. I can only laugh in delight as Indian Hindus have to confront the fact that the rebellious Muslims of Kashmir are all descended from the elite Hindu Brahmans. Insha Allah we will all unite only as Muslims of the beloved Prophet[saw] tasked with the development of an Islamic dream of Iqbal, Pakistan.

 

[Vibs]

Is it just me or are some members more interested in trying to prove their patriotism by bad mouthing their own ancestors?

 

[redgriffin]

Not much but from Adampur & Jalandhar in east Punjab.
Both sides of the family migrated here.
Were small-mediumish landords back there as well as proffessionals, came here to find that both families' lands (almost 65 percent) had been falsely claimed by others.
Did'nt matter as both sides of the family were highly educated & managed to establish themselves. Eg my paternal great great grandfather was the gold medalist in King Edward medical college's first batch, my maternal great granduncle was a Phd economics in those days.
My paternal great grandfather was a Bsc Electrical engineer from Roorki followed by a Masters in Journalism from Cambridge, cheif editor of the Bombay Chronicle (pre partition India's premier english newspaper) and so on so forth for the rest of the family as well.
My baray mamoon has our family shajra showing both sides of the family as well as our peculiar Arain sub clans and traces our ancestry directly without break in lineage to Banu Umaya (hence Quraish) and thenceforth to Hazrat Ismael A.S and Hazrat Ibrahim A.S. Our ancestors were part of the first muslim armies in India as well as serving in Mughal armies later on.
I saw the shajra when I was about 15/17. Mamoon took it with him when he moved to Canada a few years ago plus a HUGE HUGE book detailing the lineage of Arain subclans called Tareekh e Arainan I think. (scratches head).

 

[Talha Butt]

Is it just me or are some members more interested in trying to prove their patriotism by bad mouthing their own ancestors?

We Muslims do not attach the same level of significance to our Hindu ancestors as we do to our Muslim ones. Even you have Muslim ancestry to Adam[as]

 

[Vibs]

We Muslims do not attach the same level of significance to our Hindu ancestors as we do to our Muslim ones. Even you have Muslim ancestry to Adam[as]

Wow..so now religion comes into play. 2 Points.
1. Unless you totally disregard science and evolution your point cannot be valid
2. If you acknowledge Adam, he is as much Muslim as he is Christian and Jewish

 

[SQ8]

We Muslims do not attach the same level of significance to our Hindu ancestors as we do to our Muslim ones. Even you have Muslim ancestry to Adam[as]

Please speak for yourself..
There is very little "we" in your definition of Muslims so far.
Usual issue with Pakistani's that many of us think that our statement's our views apply to not just all Pakistani's , but all Muslims.

Your own views may be so, about your ancestry.. so stick to yourself and not include the rest of us in your blanket statement.

 

[Talha Butt]

Please speak for yourself..
There is very little "we" in your definition of Muslims so far.
Usual issue with Pakistani's that many of us think that our statement's our views apply to not just all Pakistani's , but all Muslims.

Your own views may be so, about your ancestry.. so stick to yourself and not include the rest of us in your blanket statement.

Actually I meant to refer to those of us Muslims who have Hindu ancestry. Maybe you don't. But an avrage Muslim with hindu ancestry is indifferent to their hindu past.