Replace with a Pashtun firestorm in the Arg (Afghan Presidential Palace)

[pakistani342]

Below is an image from the firestorm raging in Kabul from a few day, on what appears to be documentary evidance of the Ghani administration trying to systematically replace non-Pashtuns with Pashtuns.

To me what was interesting about this piece is not that it is happening -- Ghani has been accused of being a closet ethno-centrist by his critics (and highly educated ones) -- but what was more interesting is that how out of touch Pakistanis are when they think that the current administration in Afghanistan marginalizes Pashtuns. While that may have been true immediately after the overthrow of the Taliban in the early 2000s -- the situation has seen a steady reversal and restoration of Pashtun dominance in the late years of the Karzai administration. The Ghani administration has, from reports furthered the trend where the minorities are now marginalized.

The purported author of this document has been fired -- but it goes to show how out of touch Pakistanis are and how deep the problems of the Afghan social compact are.

 

[H!TchHiker]

Below is an image from the firestorm raging in Kabul (you can easily find media coverage so will not painstakingly list it) from a few day on what appears to be an example of the Ghani administration to replace non-Pashtuns with Pashtuns.

To me what was interesting about this piece is not that it is happening -- Ghani has been accused of being a closet ethno-centrist by his critics (and highly educated ones) -- but what was more interesting is that how out of touch Pakistanis are where they think that the current administration in Afghanistan marginalizes Pashtuns. While that may be been immediately true after the overthrow of the Taliban in the early 2000s -- the situation has seen a steady reversal and restoration of Pashtun dominance in the late years of the Karzai administration. The Ghani administration has from reports furthered the trend where the minorities are feeling marginalized.

The purported author of this document has been fired -- but it goes to show how out of touch Pakistanis are and how deep the problems of the Afghan social compact are.

View attachment 426623

An institutionalized racism nothing new in the context of Afghanistan....That might be the reason when Hikamtyar was offered a state personality protocol and active involvement of Karzai raise eye brows in other factions...I remember there was attack on funeral where they accused karzai of wiping out Tajik and Hazara leadership ....
As stated in your post the narrative is quite opposite being built in Pakistan..Ignorance or bias towards one fraction of group might be the reason for this or simply unaware to the ground realities of Afghanistan where ethnic tensions play major part in politics and war..
"Obedient Uzbek and Tajik" this is something very clear to show intentions or framework at state level...
May be Ghani is looking for another term and stand in election by creating ethnic tension among different groups

 

[pakistani342]

An institutionalized racism nothing new in the context of Afghanistan....That might be the reason when Hikamtyar was offered a state personality protocol and active involvement of Karzai raise eye brows in other factions...I remember there was attack on funeral where they accused karzai of wiping out Tajik and Hazara leadership ....
As stated in your post the narrative is quite opposite being built in Pakistan..Ignorance or bias towards one fraction of group might be the reason for this or simply unaware to the ground realities of Afghanistan where ethnic tensions play major part in politics and war..
"Obedient Uzbek and Tajik" this is something very clear to show intentions or framework at state level

yes it would be an interesting question -- is it deliberate bias in Pakistani media or just plain simple ignorance.

If it is ignorance then it illustrates how little the Pakistani people know about Afghanistan -- perhaps that was a strategic mistake of Afghans -- after the overthrow of the Taliban, the Afghans should have embraced Pakistani media so they can ensure their side of the story also gets told -- a vacuum of interest in Afghanistan by the general Pakistani public gives the GHQ a freer hand to execute what it wants.

 

[313ghazi]

yes it would be an interesting question -- is it deliberate bias in Pakistani media or just plain simple ignorance.

If it is ignorance then it illustrates how little the Pakistani people know about Afghanistan -- perhaps that was a strategic mistake of Afghans -- after the overthrow of the Taliban, the Afghans should have embraced Pakistani media so they can ensure their side of the story also gets told -- a vacuum of interest in Afghanistan by the general Pakistani public gives the GHQ a freer hand to execute what it wants.

If something stupid is printed in our media, it's 99% likely to be stupidity. There is next to no standards of journalistic integrity.

 

[H!TchHiker]

yes it would be an interesting question -- is it deliberate bias in Pakistani media or just plain simple ignorance.

If it is ignorance then it illustrates how little the Pakistani people know about Afghanistan -- perhaps that was a strategic mistake of Afghans -- after the overthrow of the Taliban, the Afghans should have embraced Pakistani media so they can ensure their side of the story also gets told -- a vacuum of interest in Afghanistan by the general Pakistani public gives the GHQ a freer hand to execute what it wants.

Media in Pakistan is total immature and not interested for whatsoever reasons regarding Foreign Policy matters...You will hardly find any one discussing it ..They are too busy in internal politics...Eventually GHQ knows who is who in Afghanistan i believe ...

 

[!eon]

Sir you are right, now Pakistanis are ignorant about Afghan situation even Pakistani Pashtun also and they don't want to know any thing about Afghanistan.

Situation has changed so much that at start of war when few families arrived, each home in my village gave them one tree. We have 83 houses in village, so each arriving family got 83 trees to start their businesses. Refugees then gradually moved to big cities of Pakistan. Some of them now are very rich families. They never try to hide their hate of Pakistan whenever you talk to them.

But back in my village, people now have negative image about refugees and Afghanistan. Afghan media has put fuel to this burning fire more than anything else.
If a new war starts today in Afghanistan, I don't think they would welcome anybody as refugee from Afghanistan.

If it is ignorance then it illustrates how little the Pakistani people know about Afghanistan -- perhaps that was a strategic mistake of Afghans -- after the overthrow of the Taliban, the Afghans should have embraced Pakistani media so they can ensure their side of the story also gets told -- a vacuum of interest in Afghanistan by the general Pakistani public gives the GHQ a freer hand to execute what it wants.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Can anybody please tell me why Afghanistan which used to occupy and rule present day Pakistan and even defeated the Marathas in 1761 are in such a sorry state for at least 120-130 years now?

 

[gangsta_rap]

Can anybody please tell me why Afghanistan which used to occupy and rule present day Pakistan and even defeated the Marathas in 1761 are in such a sorry state for at least 120-130 years now?

For better or worse the British introduced a very strong and unified military tradition into what is today Pakistan. This allowed the people around the indus basin to become capable of organizing into a proper fighting force. The Afghans in the mean time kept splintering to the point of recent history where all that is left are warlords bickering for scrap.

 

[django]

For better or worse the British introduced a very strong and unified military tradition into what is today Pakistan. This allowed the people around the indus basin to become capable of organizing into a proper fighting force. The Afghans in the mean time kept splintering to the point of recent history where all that is left are warlords bickering for scrap.

Actually it even precedes the Brits, Ranjit Singh had his army trained by veterans of Napoleons campaigns.

 

[Shapur]

but what was more interesting is that how out of touch Pakistanis are when they think that the current administration in Afghanistan marginalizes Pashtuns. While that may have been true immediately after the overthrow of the Taliban in the early 2000s -- the situation has seen a steady reversal and restoration of Pashtun dominance in the late years of the Karzai administration. The Ghani administration has, from reports furthered the trend where the minorities are now marginalized.

It is not an accident that Pakistani authorities/media etc push the narrative that Pashtuns are marginalized and are not represented by the post Taliban regime because it gives legitimacy to their support for the opposition to the Afghan government. It acheives few things, firstly it appeases the islamists in Pakistan that Pakistan is on the side of muslim Afghans fighting kafir occupiers ( conviniently ignoring the fact that the NATO supply route comes through Pakistan). Secondly, the Pashtuns in Pakistan are led to believe that Pashtuns are oppressed in Afghanistan and they are much better off with Pakistan.

As you mentioned that slowly but surely Pashtuns are coming back to take their rightful place in the Afghan power structure which is only natural for anyone familiar with Afghanistan.

It is imperative that peace with Taliban and good relations with Pakistan are acheived. There are some groups who are opposed to peace as they are still hanging on to the power and wealth they acquired in the aftermath of Taliban collapse.

 

[pakistani342]

It is not an accident that Pakistani authorities/media etc push the narrative that Pashtuns are marginalized and are not represented by the post Taliban regime because it gives legitimacy to their support for the opposition to the Afghan government. It acheives few things, firstly it appeases the islamists in Pakistan that Pakistan is on the side of muslim Afghans fighting kafir occupiers ( conviniently ignoring the fact that the NATO supply route comes through Pakistan). Secondly, the Pashtuns in Pakistan are led to believe that Pashtuns are oppressed in Afghanistan and they are much better off with Pakistan.

As you mentioned that slowly but surely Pashtuns are coming back to take their rightful place in the Afghan power structure which is only natural for anyone familiar with Afghanistan.

It is imperative that peace with Taliban and good relations with Pakistan are acheived. There are some groups who are opposed to peace as they are still hanging on to the power and wealth they acquired in the aftermath of Taliban collapse.

I would like to highlight some words from your post if allow me:


-----
As you mentioned that slowly but surely Pashtuns are coming back to take their rightful place in the Afghan power structure which is only natural for anyone familiar with Afghanistan.
-----

Just a simple experiment if you would indulge me:

1. What if in the above sentence we replaced Pashtuns with Punjabis and Afghanistan with Pakistan -- I wonder how you or other people would respond to that

2. What if say we again did the same with Whites instead of Pashtuns and UK or USA instead of Afghanistan-- I wonder how you or other people would respond to that

In your honesty could you have revealed one of the real problem with Afghanistan?

 

[Shapur]

I would like to highlight some words from your post if allow me:


-----
As you mentioned that slowly but surely Pashtuns are coming back to take their rightful place in the Afghan power structure which is only natural for anyone familiar with Afghanistan.
-----

Just a simple experiment if you would indulge me:

1. What if in the above sentence we replaced Pashtuns with Punjabis and Afghanistan with Pakistan -- I wonder how you or other people would respond to that

2. What if say we again did the same with Whites instead of Pashtuns and UK or USA instead of Afghanistan-- I wonder how you or other people would respond to that

In your honesty could you have revealed one of the real problem with Afghanistan?

1: Isn't that already the case?
2: I have no problem with that.

I wish things were different in our part of the world and people were elected based on merit but that is not the case, not for now at least.

 

[pakistani342]

1: Isn't that already the case?
2: I have no problem with that.

I wish things were different in our part of the world and people were elected based on merit but that is not the case, not for now at least.

Well I don't know about you but I would not stand for any one of those.

Yes, you (I assume a Pashtun living in the West) have those stated positions.

 

[defence_analyst]

Below is an image from the firestorm raging in Kabul from a few day, on what appears to be documentary evidance of the Ghani administration trying to systematically replace non-Pashtuns with Pashtuns.

To me what was interesting about this piece is not that it is happening -- Ghani has been accused of being a closet ethno-centrist by his critics (and highly educated ones) -- but what was more interesting is that how out of touch Pakistanis are when they think that the current administration in Afghanistan marginalizes Pashtuns. While that may have been true immediately after the overthrow of the Taliban in the early 2000s -- the situation has seen a steady reversal and restoration of Pashtun dominance in the late years of the Karzai administration. The Ghani administration has, from reports furthered the trend where the minorities are now marginalized.

The purported author of this document has been fired -- but it goes to show how out of touch Pakistanis are and how deep the problems of the Afghan social compact are.

View attachment 426623

They need Ghani because of taliban threat. Once that is taken out then Abdullah and other tajik warlords will take control. Soon after 2001 it looked like it was pashtun vs non-pashtun in Afghanistan and that was true to extent and narrative was developed in Pakistan.

Now USA want to change things a bit but only on short term. In the long run I see afghan pashtuns playing 2nd fiddle to Tajiks because farsi is main language of Afghanistan, education and tribal mentality as we see here. That's it if taliban are defeated and Afghanistan stays intact. If taliban win then it will be partitioned along ethnic lines.

I would like to highlight some words from your post if allow me:


-----
As you mentioned that slowly but surely Pashtuns are coming back to take their rightful place in the Afghan power structure which is only natural for anyone familiar with Afghanistan.
-----

Just a simple experiment if you would indulge me:

1. What if in the above sentence we replaced Pashtuns with Punjabis and Afghanistan with Pakistan -- I wonder how you or other people would respond to that

2. What if say we again did the same with Whites instead of Pashtuns and UK or USA instead of Afghanistan-- I wonder how you or other people would respond to that

In your honesty could you have revealed one of the real problem with Afghanistan?

As long as people like Shapur exist in any sizeable numbers you will not see peace in Afghanistan. And he is supposed to be one of sane Afghan pashtun educated in west, you can imagine about rest living in Afghanistan.

An institutionalized racism nothing new in the context of Afghanistan....That might be the reason when Hikamtyar was offered a state personality protocol and active involvement of Karzai raise eye brows in other factions...I remember there was attack on funeral where they accused karzai of wiping out Tajik and Hazara leadership ....
As stated in your post the narrative is quite opposite being built in Pakistan..Ignorance or bias towards one fraction of group might be the reason for this or simply unaware to the ground realities of Afghanistan where ethnic tensions play major part in politics and war..
"Obedient Uzbek and Tajik" this is something very clear to show intentions or framework at state level...
May be Ghani is looking for another term and stand in election by creating ethnic tension among different groups

Its a fact importance of afghan pashtuns in Kabul increased with threat of Taliban. Pakistani media isn't as ignorant. Pashtuns in Kabul were ignored by USA for long time after 2001. And even now Ghani and co are blamed for secretly supporting taliban for ethnic reasons.