Removal of Prof shows Pakistan has forgotten Jinnah’s view on Ahmadis: YLH

[MultaniGuy]

And why are you defending him?

Ignore @Solomon2, he has anti-Muslim bias in his posts.

 

[Solomon2]

And why are you defending him?

Am I "defending him" or educating you?

 

[war&peace]

Ignore @Solomon2, he has anti-Muslim bias in his posts.

In fact, his support worsens the case. BTW it is over and certain people who are bitter should get it over. This kind of mistake is not going to be repeated for all practical purposes. The state is far more important than an individual especially a consultant/advisor among a dozen or so.

It would have been much better if it was not even committed in the first place as it created so much commotion and people have so much time to waste on such petty issues. Govt hired someone, govt fired someone. That's it. Move on.

Am I "defending him" or educating you?

Thanks but no thanks.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

View attachment 498149

View attachment 498150

@Zibago , @Hell hound , @Mentee ,

No doubt atif mian is cream of best economist and world even Islamic countries recognise his intelligence.

 

[RealNapster]

No doubt atif mian is cream of best economist and world even Islamic countries recognise his intelligence.

But not by M.A/M.Sc Pass jahil awaam

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

But not by M.A/M.Sc Pass jahil awaam

Jahil awaam has some other creteria to judge merit. They don't have patience against Peaceful qadiani. Before they say me qadiani, No , I am not!.

 

[war&peace]

But not by M.A/M.Sc Pass jahil awaam

I'm pleased to know that you don't judge anyone...not even a bit. A trait deserves standing ovation..not by me though

 

[RealNapster]

Jahil awaam has some other creteria to judge merit. They don't have patience against Peaceful qadiani. Before they say me qadiani, No , I am not!.

You dont have to prove anything.

not by me though

Next time, i will try harder.

 

[Psychic]

@Pluralist

You do agree that Mirzais were declared non-Muslims by a man made Parliament, which means that in due course another man made Parliament can again declare them Muslim.

Regards

They are considered non Muslims world wide. They are not even allowed by KSA authorities to enter Mekkah. They are not allowed to perform Hajj. This issue isn't Pakistan specific. Can someone be allowed to masquerade as a Muslim when he rejects the core beliefs of Islam?

Even if a man made parliament declares them Muslim again which is not likely going to happen, religious scholars all over the world have already declared them kaffirs. Even worse, the founding fathers of Ahmadiya/Qadian are considered murtads(Apostates).
An interesting fact is that they themselves consider Non-Ahmadis/non-Qadianis as Kaffirs. Yet they ask us who are we to declare them non-Muslims.
It's not a question of a declaration by a man made parliament...Declaration is mere symbolic in nature, people won't consider them Muslims regardless of it.
I see a parallel between Mormons and Qadianis.

http://www.khatmenubuwwat.org/media/File/fatawas/fatwa_al_azhar.pdf
That is a good read, and not Pakistani either.

 

[Super Falcon]

By not forgetting jinnahs view should we go against the islam which clearly says thesse people are not good for you musliims they will betray you do islams view more important or jinnahs i think where any thing clashes with our religions teachings we should follow islam no matter what the cost

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

By not forgetting jinnahs view should we go against the islam,we should follow islam no matter what the cost

Pakistan comes first, Religion and other things comes after this. When there is Pakistan , there is constitution, humanity and good human being is what matters most, warna zardari, osama Bin Ladin, Baitaiullah mahsood, meera , reham Khan, Nawaz is also haji.
Interest(Sood) on loan is haram in Islam but we should continue to take it if it is in the interest of Pakistan & betterment of people. As all religion are equally important, but Pakistan comes first.
It happens in every country in the world, they always do work which is in the interest of country. And we should not forget quaid Azam founder of Pakistan and he praised Qadiani and appointed qadiani as first ever foreign minister of Pakistan because he meets merit criteria.

 

[gutto786]

https://theprint.in/opinion/insulti...has-forgotten-jinnahs-view-on-ahmadis/114362/

Atif Mian, the great Princeton economist who was unceremoniously removed from his position on Imran Khan government’s Economic Advisory Council, is not the one who lost out. It is Pakistan’s loss.

The story of Pakistan’s Ahmadis starts long before the creation of the country. The Ahmaddiya Movement that started as a response to Christian missionary efforts in the late 19th century found many admirers amongst other Muslim sects. Allama Iqbal, the renowned Muslim philosopher, was an admirer of the founder of the Ahmadi movement and is rumoured to have joined it for a while as well before turning viciously vehemently and vociferously against it. Maulana Azad, the great Islamic scholar, considered the Ahmadis to be “Ghulat” i.e. a group that has transgressed the boundaries of divine faith but nonetheless is reported to have mourned the death of the founder of the Ahmadi movement.

When the Muslim League and Congress turned into bitter enemies in the late 1930s, Ahmadis soon became the subject of this tussle. Even though Jawaharlal Nehru had defended Ahmadis in a public exchange with Iqbal, Congress through Maulana Azad actively encouraged the anti-Ahmadi group Majlis-e-Ahrar-e-Islam, led by fanatics like Ataullah Shah Bukhari and Azhar Ali Mazhar, to attack the Muslim League for having Ahmadis amongst its members.

There was an Iqbalian group within the Punjab chapter of the Muslim League that wanted Ahmadis out as well. They tried to introduce an oath that would require every elected member to work to get Ahmadis declared Non-Muslim. At this point, Jinnah intervened and resisted. The Punjab Muslim League’s oath was quietly shelved.

Jinnah unequivocally assured Ahmadis that they would be treated at par with any other Muslim sect. Jinnah himself was from a minority sect within Islam, and was mindful of the fact that this would open a can of worms that would damage Muslim solidarity like no other question. Jinnah’s close confidante and colleague was Zafarullah Khan, a leading Ahmadi lawyer, whose memo became the basis of Lahore Resolution. Majlis-e-Ahrar and even Maulana Madani of Jamiat-e-Ulema Hind continued to denounce Jinnah not just for his Westernised lifestyle but for having Ahmadis as his close advisers and as employees of his newspaper Dawn.

Principled stance
Ahmadis were not the only target of their wrath. When Jinnah appointed Pothan Joseph, a Syrian Christian, as the editor of Dawn, Maulana Madani denounced it saying that Jinnah was a secularist and unfit to lead the Muslims. In May 1944, when Jinnah went to Kashmir, he was inundated with queries about the Ahmadis, especially the Qadiani subsect of the group. On 23 May 1944, Jinnah said that Muslim League was open to all Muslims and that his advice was not to raise such sectarian issues because it would hurt not just Muslims but all communities in Kashmir and India.

It was because of this principled stance that Ahmadis threw in their lot with Jinnah and the Muslim League.

Jinnah’s other main supporter was Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmood, the 2ndCaliph of the Ahmaddiya Community and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s son. In 1946 elections, Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmood advised all of his followers to vote en masse for the Muslim League. During Partition, Mahmood moved his entire body of followers to Pakistan. When the Kashmir war broke out between Pakistan and India, it was the Ahmadi community that cooperated with the Pakistan Army and set up Furqan Battalion comprising entirely of Ahmadi youth to fight alongside the Pakistan Army in Kashmir. The services of the Battalion were recognised and there is a letter from the Pakistan Army praising their services.

Zafarullah Khan, a barrister, had been a president of the Muslim League in the 1930s. His direct association with Jinnah came during the roundtable conferences. Jinnah called him a Muslim and praised his efforts in negotiating a trade deal for India in 1939. It was Zafarullah who represented United India in the inaugural sessions of the UN. Later, Jinnah acquired his services as a lawyer to represent Muslim League at the boundary commission hearings in Punjab, a job that even Zafarullah’s opponents praised him for.

Since Zafarullah was also the advisor to the Nawab of Bhopal, Jinnah wrote to the Nawab to release him from his duties because he was needed as a wise and trustworthy lieutenant. To M.A.H. Ispahani in New York, Jinnah wrote that there was no person more able and talented than Zafarullah who was needed in Pakistan immediately. In December 1947, Zafarullah returned to Pakistan to become its first foreign minister. Despite considerable pressure, Jinnah didn’t budge even an inch. At that time, Jinnah was also criticised for inducting a Scheduled Caste Hindu as Pakistan’s first law minister –Jogendra Nath Mandal. After Jinnah died, Mandal was ultimately driven out of the government in 1950. However on Zafarullah Khan, the government remained steadfast.

More victims
Majlis-e-Ahrar, now having re-grouped after its pre-Partition defeat, started a nationwide movement to oust Zafarullah from the government and to declare Ahmadis Non-Muslim. Prime Minister Khawaja Nazimuddin, a Jinnah loyalist from East Pakistan, refused to accede even though he personally had no love for Ahmadis or their doctrine.

Ahmadis thus continued to enjoy the privileges as equal citizens including the right to identify as Muslims. Abdus Salam, Pakistan’s leading physicist and scientist, joined the Pakistan government and founded the Pakistani space agency. Under his guidance, Pakistan became one of the few countries in Asia to send a satellite into space in early 1960s. He also founded Pakistan’s atomic energy commission and trained a generation of Pakistani physicists. He was the Chief Science Advisor in the Pakistan government till September 1974 when he resigned in protest over the 2nd Constitutional Amendment brought by Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s Pakistan Peoples Party government to appease the Mullahs. Pakistan’s National Assembly had just voted to declare the entire Ahmadi community out of the fold of Islam. Majlis-e-Ahrar-e-Islam and Jamaat-e-Islami had finally won. Meanwhile, Salam went on to win the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1979.

One more victim of this policy was Mirza Muzaffar Ahmad, another Ahmadi educated at Oxford University. A leading civil servant, he opted for Pakistan in 1947. He was Pakistan’s most successful secretary of finance and later went on to become the chief advisor. In 1971, he was stabbed by a religious fanatic called Aslam Qureshi after which he joined the World Bank, living out the rest of his life in Washington DC. Qureshi became an instant hero to the anti-Ahmadi groups in Pakistan and it was none other than Senator Zafarul Haq of Pakistan Muslim League Nawaz (PMLN) who organised his legal defence and then used his disappearance as an excuse to get General Zia ul Haq to promulgate the infamous Ordinance XX of 1984, which outlaws religious practice and freedom of the Ahmadis.

Downward graph
The list is long of Ahmadis who tried to serve Pakistan but were murdered in cold blood.

Ahmadis have served the country on the battlefield as well, often without recognition. Major General Iftikhar Janjua, for example, was for the longest time the only Pakistani general to die in battle for Pakistan. Then there were heroes like General Abdul Ali Malik and his brother General Akhtar Ali Malik. Abdul Ali Malik won the famous tank battle of Chawinda. Akhtar Ali Malik is said to have been on verge of taking Kashmir when Ayub Khan removed him from command replacing him with Yahya Khan, who was a poor military tactician. Pakistan Air Force too had many heroes, including Air Marshal Zafar Chaudhry. Ahmadis built Pakistan, and helped it survived.

The downward graph of Pakistan has interestingly followed Ahmadis’ marginalisation. This is not because Ahmadis are the only ones talented but because their marginalisation has also meant the end of meritocracy in Pakistan.

Pakistan will continue to lose unless it reverts to Jinnah’s wise words that religion caste or creed has nothing to do with the business of the state.

Regards

Yar already Ahmadis and Atif Mian have been sweared at a lot, what do you want. Just stop making these threads, You guys enjoy it and then everyone starts guns blazing at Ahmadis and Atif Mian.
Bus ker do Khuda ka wasta! Pakistani jeet gaye hein, let them be!
Pakistanis need not worry, yeh Jinnah ka hee Pakistan hey no issues!!

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@Oscar

Oscar sb,

Thank you very much. That was quite illuminating. Indians, esp Non Muslim Indians, would not be familiar with the more intricate maneuvering among the various sects in Pakistan. Mirzai involvement with Brits and Israel of course has been noted by many but there was one particular item which I didnt quite understand:

Chaudhry Zafarullah’s goal is stated more to force the direction of the ML to use for activities leading to the return to Qadiyan

What is this return to Qadian business? Does this mean that Mirzais want to return to Qadian? Or that the Mirzai Church would persuade the GoI to return the holy city of Qadian to Pakistan in return for some quid pro quo elsewhere (Kashmir, possibly?)

(I will not bore you to seek details on how MZKQ or AM Zafar Chaudhary's personal ego ruined their respective organisations, after all this happens in every country across ages across people of any particular religious affiliation and isnt a Mirzai issue as such.)

Hoping for a prompt answer.

Regards

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar

Oscar sb,

Thank you very much. That was quite illuminating. Indians, esp Non Muslim Indians, would not be familiar with the more intricate maneuvering among the various sects in Pakistan. Mirzai involvement with Brits and Israel of course has been noted by many but there was one particular item which I didnt quite understand:

Chaudhry Zafarullah’s goal is stated more to force the direction of the ML to use for activities leading to the return to Qadiyan

What is this return to Qadian business? Does this mean that Mirzais want to return to Qadian? Or that the Mirzai Church would persuade the GoI to return the holy city of Qadian to Pakistan in return for some quid pro quo elsewhere (Kashmir, possibly?)

(I will not bore you to seek details on how MZKQ or AM Zafar Chaudhary's personal ego ruined their respective organisations, after all this happens in every country across ages across people of any particular religious affiliation and isnt a Mirzai issue as such.)

Hoping for a prompt answer.

Regards

Actually, maneuvering is common in India as well but just not confined to Islam and less on the surface to the secular nature of the constitution.

Returning to Qadian seems to be a borrowed concept of a Zion for Qadiyanis and stated as much by their early religious leadership including Ghulam Mirza. How relevant it is today is a good question since I was privy to a conversation with the grandson of Mirza Qadiyan who was working with a well known hotel company in Pakistan by a close relative of mine.
Versus the earlier claims of prophethood the new claim was that Ghulam Mirza was a reformist and saint: nothing more. Which essentially changes the debate because then you end the argument. Is it a change of position to survive in a hostile environment? Perhaps, but the return to Qadiyan bit was likely just a wishful idea of establishing a groundhold for the religious pratice. Today’s Iran with its Mausoleum for Imam Khomeni isn’t much different either and millions throng to it; almost a mini medina.
Same with Nankana Sahib for Guru Nanak.. it serves to solidify the religious ideals in a place of connection.

 

[TMA]

Pakistan comes first, Religion and other things comes after this. When there is Pakistan , there is constitution, humanity and good human being is what matters most, warna zardari, osama Bin Ladin, Baitaiullah mahsood, meera , reham Khan, Nawaz is also haji.
Interest(Sood) on loan is haram in Islam but we should continue to take it if it is in the interest of Pakistan & betterment of people. As all religion are equally important, but Pakistan comes first.
It happens in every country in the world, they always do work which is in the interest of country. And we should not forget quaid Azam founder of Pakistan and he praised Qadiani and appointed qadiani as first ever foreign minister of Pakistan because he meets merit criteria.

Usury is never in the interests of the common man. Only the blood sucking Shylocks who run the system. One does not need to be religious to see that...