Raymond Davis Case: American Government officials confirm CIA status - New York Times

[Hammy007]

@ vchenk, either you are with us or against us , please remove that pakistani flag thanks

 

[American Eagle]

The WASHINGTON POST journalist is dishonest with his use of words. Nothing has changed about the facts that Mr. Davis took out money from a ATM, where he most probably was being "cased" by the now known of fact two criminal robbers, who having robbed at gun point two Pakistani gentlemen earlier the same day in the same area of Lahore, then tried but failed to stick up Mr. Davis. Nothing of these facts is changed or altered one iota by Mr. Davis perhaps familiarizing himself with the streets by driving around Lahore. I used to drive around the vast city of Karachi where I was stationed in the 1960s to visit new to me areas and neighborhoods and to likewise find new bazaars to shop in.

I am very weary of folks in journalism, worldwide, who create by inuendo and misuse of words false impressions. Some folks call those false impressions flat lies.

 

[American Eagle]

A trained true CIA agent has ususally two college degress and works in a white collar job in a US Embassy when overseas.

Mr. Davis was and is still correctly tagged as a security personnel, support and technical staff, related to the safety and well being of other foreign service personnel at his same location overseas. In his case he is probably helping train securitiy personnel at other, Paksitan wide diplomatic locations.

None of which detracts from the fact that he is in his administrative/technical capacity a diplomat and has 100% diplomatic immunity.

 

[VCheng]

from: Pakistan, US divided on Davis case: PM - GEO.tv

Pakistan, US divided on Davis case: PM

Updated at: 2151 PST, Monday, February 21, 2011

ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani on Monday said that Raymond Davis’ case would (sic- not? I think this word is missing here, but I am not sure) become the cause of strained relations with the US but he admitted that Islamabad and Washington are divided on the issue, Geo News reported.

“There is a difference of opinion between Pakistan and the United States in the case of Davis on the issue of interpretation and applicability of international and national laws,” he said while addressing the National Assembly.

He said this difference of opinion is due to the ambiguity and inconsistency that is reflected in the available record.

However, the Prime Minister (r)eiterated (sic) government’s resolve of not making any compromise upon country’s sovereignty and dignity in Raymond Davis case.

“We are a responsible government and conscious of the sentiments of our people. Every time difficult circumstances have tested our resolve to stand by the sentiments and the will of the people of Pakistan,” he said, while giving a policy statement.

He said that for the past few days the nation’s attention had been focused on the tragic killing of two Pakistanis, by a US citizen Raymond Davis, on January 27, and the death of a third person by the US Consulate vehicle in Lahore.

 

[RescueRanger]

This is their greatest folly. They fight imaginary bogey men instead of the real terrorists and extremists who are raping the country. Ofcourse, any call to approach the davies case with a rational mind is immediately thwarted.

Discuss the facts please and leave this tripe for some other thread. I am frankly all out of patience for foreign observers pontificating on threads regarding Mr. Davis. You all can't begin to contemplate the gravity of the situation in Pakistan, all because this FOOL managed to get caught.

You are most welcome to discuss the facts and ask question, however don't question our loyalty to the motherland nor disregard the genuine emotion that is bursting to pour out into the streets. All the good done by USAID, JSI, PAIMAN, DELIVER etc... All washed away in a single act of stupidity by this man.

And if you cannot respect the emotions of Pakistanis, then by all means please don't bother reading what we write... Many thanks in advance.

 

[American Eagle]

You are overbearing and flatly don't face the fact that due to random robbery event Davis was the victum who defended himself against armed hold up attempt. The fact that Davis is a full diplomatic immunity Islamabad US Embassy certified administrative/technical staff providing security support is still 100% true.

There is no reason to blame Davis from two proven crooks, robbers, trying to stick him up after they successfully robbed two Paksitani gentlemen...whose stolen by the two crooks cell phones were recovered after the failed stick up of Davis.

It is still rational for anyone who is armed as a part of his job, Davis was authorized to be armed by the US Embassy, a job requirement which the US embassy announced early on, to shot when he is aimed at and believes his life is in danger.

When I was in Pakistan and again since 911, and frankly for most years in between the 1960s and now, Pakistan has been an armed camp at war with itself, with the Afghans, with the Indians, with the Kashmiris., some of whom I have gotten to know personally...who tell me they would prefer to be out from under both Pakistan and India, as economically, defense wise and otherwise irrational that may seem.

I as a young USAF Lieutenant in Karachi and my hq. in Peshawar drew what today would be termed monthly hostile fire pay, it was that dangerous even in 1963-65. In early 1965 I was shot at by both Pakistanis and Indians simply being in the wrong place at the right time, the Rann of Kutch.

My USMAAG housemates, all officers, Army, Navy, and I was the one USAF in our specific staff house, after I PCSed back to the US were abruptly arrested and jailed by the Pak military in Karachi as "enemy spies"...our boys who were giving free military equipment, ships, a sub, planes, and training, guns and ammuntion, tanks, were suddenly "enemy spies" when then Prime Minister Bhutto went bezerk together with General Musa and provoked the 1965 India-Pak War.

So instead of some telling me because they know stuff today, this time I will tell you all that crazed folks develop in the midst of factually honest robbery events, locals are furious over terrorists in their midst, and atypically the ordinary Paks want to "blame" somebody instead of realizing their own poor governance system, the extremist elements in their own faith system continue to generate their dismal status.

Ere long the Pakistanis, as almost happened under President Musharraf, will realize that stronger law and order, beyond what a normal court system, will become if has not already become necessary to regain control of the environmente where otherwise the crazy terroirist are running amuck, even if in small numbers...it only takes one suicide terrorists, often a child whose family is held hostage, to blow up a crowd of innocent Paks...not in the name of a crazed version of religion but to save his family who he or she knows will otherwise be murdered if he or she doesn't donate his or her own life as a suicide bomber.

 

[RescueRanger]

You are overbearing and flatly don't face the fact that due to random robbery event Davis was the victum who defended himself against armed hold up attempt. The fact that Davis is a full diplomatic immunity Islamabad US Embassy certified administrative/technical staff providing security support is still 100% true.

There is no reason to blame Davis from two proven crooks, robbers, trying to stick him up after they successfully robbed two Paksitani gentlemen...whose stolen by the two crooks cell phones were recovered after the failed stick up of Davis.

It is still rational for anyone who is armed as a part of his job, Davis was authorized to be armed by the US Embassy, a job requirement which the US embassy announced early on, to shot when he is aimed at and believes his life is in danger.

When I was in Pakistan and again since 911, and frankly for most years in between the 1960s and now, Pakistan has been an armed camp at war with itself, with the Afghans, with the Indians, with the Kashmiris., some of whom I have gotten to know personally...who tell me they would prefer to be out from under both Pakistan and India, as economically, defense wise and otherwise irrational that may seem.

I as a young USAF Lieutenant in Karachi and my hq. in Peshawar drew what today would be termed monthly hostile fire pay, it was that dangerous even in 1963-65. In early 1965 I was shot at by both Pakistanis and Indians simply being in the wrong place at the right time, the Rann of Kutch.

My USMAAG housemates, all officers, Army, Navy, and I was the one USAF in our specific staff house, after I PCSed back to the US were abruptly arrested and jailed by the Pak military in Karachi as "enemy spies"...our boys who were giving free military equipment, ships, a sub, planes, and training, guns and ammuntion, tanks, were suddenly "enemy spies" when then Prime Minister Bhutto went bezerk together with General Musa and provoked the 1965 India-Pak War.

So instead of some telling me because they know stuff today, this time I will tell you all that crazed folks develop in the midst of factually honest robbery events, locals are furious over terrorists in their midst, and atypically the ordinary Paks want to "blame" somebody instead of realizing their own poor governance system, the extremist elements in their own faith system continue to generate their dismal status.

Ere long the Pakistanis, as almost happened under President Musharraf, will realize that stronger law and order, beyond what a normal court system, will become if has not already become necessary to regain control of the environmente where otherwise the crazy terroirist are running amuck, even if in small numbers...it only takes one suicide terrorists, often a child whose family is held hostage, to blow up a crowd of innocent Paks...not in the name of a crazed version of religion but to save his family who he or she knows will otherwise be murdered if he or she doesn't donate his or her own life as a suicide bomber.

Only one problem with all of that. Foreigners with the exception of MSG units are not allowed to carry weapons outside premises....
The LAW IS THE LAW

 

[TruthSeeker]

The American "can-do" attitude is sometimes very useful. For example, it can help bring quick relief to an earthquake ravaged area. However, what the Davis case illustrates is that, sometimes, our "can-do" attitude is totally at variance with reality. How could my government think that a farm boy from southwestern Virginia, not so far away from where I am keystroking now, could gather any useful intelligence in Lahore? I can't image he "blends in". I can't imagine he speaks the language. I can't imagine he could cope with a simple problem like a fender bender. And yet, we put him there. A bull in a china shop. Paying him $200,000. Enough for 5 teacher's salaries in his hometown. It's just over the top arrogant. I truly sympathize with Pakistani sentiment on this one. Maybe the only way to get us Yanks to think twice about biting off more than we can chew is to let us choke on one of our really big mistakes.

 

[American Eagle]

Yes, and International Law, Vienna Convention, and Treaties which Pakistan signed are "the law" which you seem to not understand.

The enemy is the terrorists, not NATO.

Get really mad at the radical heretics to true Islam and get after them and this will be over that much quicker.

 

[Tin Man]

The American "can-do" attitude is sometimes very useful. For example, it can help bring quick relief to an earthquake ravaged area. However, what the Davis case illustrates is that, sometimes, our "can-do" attitude is totally at variance with reality. How could my government think that a farm boy from southwestern Virginia, not so far away from where I am keystroking now, could gather any useful intelligence in Lahore? I can't image he "blends in". I can't imagine he speaks the language. I can't imagine he could cope with a simple problem like a fender bender. And yet, we put him there. A bull in a china shop. Paying him $200,000. Enough for 5 teacher's salaries in his hometown. It's just over the top arrogant. I truly sympathize with Pakistani sentiment on this one. Maybe the only way to get us Yanks to think twice about biting off more than we can chew is to let us choke on one of our really big mistakes.

I do not think the american intelligence agencies are so dumb. There is obviously a lot more to this story than what we think we know. No one asks "what motivated him to do what he did". obviously , he knew the risks and yet went ahead with it. WHY?. What was so important that he would risk capture, torture and eventual execution?

 

[RescueRanger]

Yes, and International Law, Vienna Convention, and Treaties which Pakistan signed are "the law" which you seem to not understand.

The enemy is the terrorists, not NATO.

Get really mad at the radical heretics to true Islam and get after them and this will be over that much quicker.

In Pakistan, there is a saying: Always respect your ustatd" Always respect your teacher". Having been trained by the Americans i am eternally grateful for the great people who taught us all these essential skills and developed our human resource. I will forever be grateful for their intervention, i will protect their lives with just as much devotion and fervor as i would a Pakistanis... But that does not mean i will simply turn a blind eye to an blatantly obvious violation of all norms and rules of conduct.

BTW AE: Tell me, what do you really think that we are just sitting here and twiddling our thumbs? I like the way people say "Go after those terrorists"... Yeah you see my friend, we are doing just that,and that is why just last month according to figures published by SANS PIPS Islamabad: 500 casualties were suffered from the Pakistani Military and Civilian population due to terrorist reprisal attacks.

As for your statement "The enemy is the terrorists, not NATO"...Please tell me, how many Pakistanis are attacking the EU High Commission or the NATO Regional Office in Isb...? Exactly...So statements like these don't help any!

 

[American Eagle]

Here is look at some unrelated Paksitani crooks, kidnappers, praying on their own Pakistani nationals. Eventually some of this good PDF site will realize that some folks are just crooks looking for a quick buck, as wereFaheem Shamshad andFaizan Haider, who had just successfuly stuck up to fellow Pakistanis who lost their cell phones (2) and cash...which the Pakistani police in Lahore recovered when the same two robbers failed in their stick up attempt of Mr. Davis, who was defending himself from armed robbers.

When the day comes that we praise robbers over victums we then have a sick society in terms of basic human values.

Death is always a sad event for anyone, anywhere, any time, but in the armed robbery trade that is a prime risk any robber takes.

Malaysian police detain Pakistanis over kidnap

(1 hour ago) Today Feb. 22, 2011

Malaysian police officials followed the four Pakistani nationals acting suspiciously into a flat downtown where three other Pakistanis were locked in, bound and gagged. –Photo by AFP

KUALA LUMPUR: Malaysian police said on Tuesday they had foiled a kidnapping gang with the arrest of four Pakistani nationals who seized their own countrymen for ransom from the victims’ relatives back home.

City police chief Zulkifli Abdullah told AFP that the four, aged between 22 and 35, were arrested on Saturday, following a tip-off.

“As a result of our monitoring, we saw four Pakistani nationals acting suspiciously and followed them to a flat downtown where we found three other Pakistanis locked in the home and who were bound and gagged,” he said.

“One of the kidnappers tried to escape and jumped from the third floor of the flats, ending up breaking his hand,” Zulkifli added.

He said initial investigations showed the kidnappers had demanded a ransom of 620,000 ringgit (204,317 dollars) for the release of the three men.

“The group’s modus operandi was to kidnap their countrymen who came to Malaysia to trade and do business and then seek a ransom from their relatives back in Pakistan,” he added.

He said the four would be charged in court shortly after police complete their investigations into the men, who are believed to also be linked to another seven kidnappings of Pakistani nationals in the country.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I do not think the american intelligence agencies are so dumb. There is obviously a lot more to this story than what we think we know. No one asks "what motivated him to do what he did". obviously , he knew the risks and yet went ahead with it.

I think my intelligence agencies are, sometimes, very arrogant in their self-confidence. What have they gotten right in the last 20 years? Couldn't predict the collapse of the Soviet Union, Iraq's invasion of Kuwait? WMD's? even the fall of Mubarek! Have you seen photos of Mr. Davis? How could he do any useful surveillance in Lahore? It's absurd. He shouldn't have been there. The USA is taking short cuts (aka: "contractors") in an effort to show progress before Obama is accused of "losing" Afghanistan. There are just some things we "can't do". The WOT appears to be one of them.

 

[Tin Man]

There are just some things we "can't do". The WOT appears to be one of them.

Then pray tell me, who would do it?. Would you rather have terrorists roaming free?. Someone had to do it.

 

[American Eagle]

I am glad you know so much to blame a man who was innocently put upon by two now known multi robberies crooks.

Whatever Mr. Davis was doing is not the subject...the subject is that he was the victum of attempted armed robbery. That is all.

The rest of this is a wrong in terms of facts and logic as the 1965 India-Pakistan War was my former (I had just PCSed to the States) all officers, were arrested by the Pak police and Military from our USMAAG staff house as "all of a sudden spies." That was flat goofy then and the same is the case today.

It is regrettable the robbers were shot but they brought it on by their life of crime, brought it on themselves. It is dead wrong to blame Mr. Davis for being the victum of a failed stick up. Calmer heads in Pakistan will eventually realize these simple facts.

It was also wrong to blame two other US Embassy administrative/technical staffers who were merely riding in a US Consulate car that in a traffic accident, in a US staff car driven by a Pakistani driver working for the US Consulate, wherein an innocent Paksitani was killed in a traffic accident.
So we go out to "hang" the two US passengers in a vehicle which neither one of them was driving. Just think a second as to how goofy this lack of logic is.