Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russian Envoy

[MokshaVimukthi]

lool You think Russia will take India's side in case you have a conflict with China? My friend you seem not to understand that in geo politics there are no friends, only interests. Russia has by far more common interests with China than it does with India. They both want to reduce western/U.S influence in their respective sphere of influence(Eastern Europe and Asia) and are hostile to any U.S unilateral moves in the world. Meanwhile India has no such views, In fact India has no problem with our continued dominance as far as we give you some spacetransfer more tech. This can be seen in the formation of BRICS bank, Russia favoured China hosting the headquarters from the start since the knew the Chinese are the biggets economic entity in the group and will contribute more than other, only India refused to accept such an idea.lol This is just one example in which Russia knows it needs the Chinese to counter us in the west/U.S . same with the new deals Russia is now signing with China from economic/financial to cultural partnerships, since we imposed sanctions on Russia for their agression in Ukraine.

India does not need Russia to take sides if we have a war with China. India can hold on our own.

You seem to be oblivious to the fact that even India seek to decrease western/US influence in Asia. In that we have a common purpose with Russia and China. India is just biding its time like how China did when the US "allied" with china against the USSR. Its just history repeating itself.

Even India did not have any objection to China hosting the BRICS HQ, we only used it as a leverage to extract benefits for us. China due to its economy and infrastructure was the natural choice. In case you haven't realized, India has not supported west/Us sanctions against Russia.

To be honest India has no common interests with Russia apart from a seller-buyer military relationship and TOT, thats it. they have no strategic common interests at all. India will do well to get closer to the U.S/WEST than with Russia. For we will support India in the event of conflict with China, but Russia won't believe me, im sure you yourself know this. So talk of India strategic relationship being ensured by Chinas rise is all but laughable. Russia is just doing business with you since she gets most of dollars from their sale of weapons to you.lol thats it.

The fact that a large powerful China lies between India and Russia makes us natural partners.

India has tried being friendly with the west, and it did not end too well for us. Sanctions and all that ... not to mention Khalistan and kashmir and NE. In the long run I anticipate better relationship between India and China as compared to India and the west. Only China has to learn to respect India first. Its a slow but sure process.

The reality is the India is only doing business with the west, not any strategic alliance. Even the US knows that. Why do you think we are developing Agni 5 and 6 missiles ?

You say Russia has earned the right to be most important 'FRIEND' to India.loool I told you never to mentioned friend in politics. Only interests are involve. Russia/U.S.S.R did support /provide India with critical weapons systems simply because it was in their interests to do so, since India provided them with a viable alliance to deal with the U.S/China and Pakistan in the region etc. Even now Russia continues to supply you weapons not because they consider you as friend.lol simply because you provide them with necessary dollars needed for them to further/improve their military industry. This is even more so since after the collapse of the U.S.S.R Russia was broke and short of funds, and even now Russia has nothing much to export apart from their soviet era weapons and oil/gas. So they dont have much choice tbh. So lets be realistic bro. Russia is no friend of India, In fact no country in the world is a friend of the other, just interests are friends of countries.lool

Be that it may, India still view Russia as a friendly nation. It has nothing to do with the govt. its the public sentiment. It does not matter "why" the relationship exist, only that it Does Exist.

As far as interests are concerned, a strong Russia is very much in India's interest and India will continue to have policies that will strengthen Russia rather than weaken it. That too is a reality.

End of the day when the US 7th fleet enter the Bay of Bengal to intimidate India, it was Russia who send warships to intimidate the US. And as you know Elephants have a LONG LONG Memory.

 

[mike2000]

Brother!! no Rafael means no EF or F-18 or Gripen. Instead of spending on multiple platforms, we should work on adding more lethality to established platforms as MKIs. And invest for indigenous venture with help from Israel, France and Russia.

NO ONE except US and Russian have true 5th gen fighter craft building ability. China J-20 is also MiG-1.44, which Russia gifted to China as to comensate PAK-FA with India, though ofcourse with major Chinese indigenous inputs.

F-35 is dud untill there is substantial competitive fighter craft in market for sale as PAK-FA. Till then US will like Raptor to have numero uno status.

Nope it should read: 'No one except U.S has a true 5th generation fighter building ability for now' . Russia is still not close to buiding an operational one, in fact i will say even the Chinese are taking a lead on them on this one. I dont think the J-20 has anything to do with Mig or whatever.

As for India , you are right bro, it will better for india to focus on its MKIs and AMCA in partnership with U.S, Israel and France. This will have been the best way for India to move forward without wasting too much money and gaining more know how while stregthening its local manufacturing/gain more experience/know how in building the latest generation fighter jets.

 

[Bang Galore]

Coincidently, the Ambassador totally forgot to mention the MKI which as such as a better Flanker derivative compared to anything the Chinese purchased from Russia.

Actually he did mention that in a manner of speaking. He made the comment that Chinese Su27 which is only half as good as the Indian one was still, in his opinion, better than the Rafale.


"We (Russia) are still very surprised that Rafale is being bought, because if the Rafale is intended to oppose Pakistani or Chinese planes, then the Sukhoi which the Chinese produce, or mobilizes, but which is only 50 percent of the Sukhoi which you (India) produce, then even for the Chinese Sukhoi, these Rafales will be like mosquitoes on an August night. They will be shot down like mosquitoes. That's why I don't understand why...."

 

[Donatello]

Yeah and then deal with four separate nations when we need some upgrade or customization or something??Thanks......but no,thanks.

You buy the plane and parts from the Eurofighter consortium, genius. Just like Airbus.
However, since your purchase directly affects employment and economic output in 4 countries, you automatically get the leverage. You actually don't talk to them individually. Eurofighter was setup for that exact reason, to setup up a single point of contact for sales and support for the end customer.

Please think before you post something totally ridiculous.

 

[ashish1]

I think the Eurofighter will have been better for India, and even more so India going for F-35 will be even more better.
India should have done this while investing more into their own AMCA, but i dont think India has the capability to build a fifth generation fighter alone(see LCA), you people could partner with France or Israel or even U.S to achieve that. im sure they will be willing to cooperate with india in this regard,since they have no hostility towards india(as far as you can pay). PAKFA with Russia might turn out to be a headache for India, judging by all the delays and issues Russia seems to be having with India(as we can see from ambassador comments) as India gets closer to the west/U.S

We are not capable of devloping AMCA thats exactly the reason that we are going for projects like RAFALE and PAKFA/FGFA to get the knowhow of how to devlop 4.5 to 5th generation aircrafts and devlop a base for private industries and fill all the critical gaps.

Its ok to buy few US defence product for some Strategic Favours but why are we going for-
"Gold Plated Rafael "

To save French Aviation Industry, why to waste Indian tax payers money.

We have strong Airforce with detterence for another 5 years by then we will have our PAK- FA.

Instead India should built more MKIs and invest more on our own AMCA and have Israel and French collabration for that, it will gives us two simultaneous platform for advance fighter, also our Aircraft industry will gain vital experience. In future we will have to spend in AMCA, why not now only

World is dying to have Stealth featured 5th Gen aircraft and we are spending billions on Rafael

Purchaisng RAFALE will not kill AMCA.
AMCA will replace Jaguars when they get ready.

 

[帅的一匹]

Brother!! no Rafael means no EF or F-18 or Gripen. Instead of spending on multiple platforms, we should work on adding more lethality to established platforms as MKIs. And invest for indigenous venture with help from Israel, France and Russia.

NO ONE except US and Russian have true 5th gen fighter craft building ability. China J-20 is also MiG-1.44, which Russia gifted to China as to comensate PAK-FA with India, though ofcourse with major Chinese indigenous inputs.

F-35 is dud untill there is substantial competitive fighter craft in market for sale as PAK-FA. Till then US will like Raptor to have numero uno status.

I'm sorry IAF is an amateur hodge podge that wants everything in its inventory. when other countries go for 5th gen fighters desperately, IAF still wanna spend billions on an 4.5 gen fighters. you guys don't have confidence on FGFA project at all, you simply don't trust Russia. those money shall be invested in indigenous project like AMCA. No one in this world buy Rafale except India, you guys will save the entire French aviation industry while sacrifice your own, stupid to the extreme.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

say who? your father! first of all correct the fact its the s27 they are talking about not the Su35! brush your teeth its stained with soy sauce.

What a retard, Su-27 is 1980s vintage, none stupid compare a 30 years different technological gap of the Su-27 with current Rafale, Su-27 is just the basic airframe but Su-35 is enhance updated machine.

 

[Didact]

You buy the plane and parts from the Eurofighter consortium, genius. Just like Airbus.
However, since your purchase directly affects employment and economic output in 4 countries, you automatically get the leverage. You actually don't talk to them individually. Eurofighter was setup for that exact reason, to setup up a single point of contact for sales and support for the end customer.

Please think before you post something totally ridiculous.

His statement might not be perfect, but that doesn't make the logic behind it any less credible or any less worrisome. There is real apprehension about the Eurofighter setup here, from the junior officer level right up to the command levels.

Germany, for instance, has strict laws regarding military exports to conflict zones. I won't get into the legal details but in short this means that whatever the commitments of the Eurofighter consortium, military parts manufactured in Germany will not find their way into a war zone. In effect that means we will absolutely, unquestionably be starved of the parts when we need them the most.

So his statement isn't as ridiculous as you have pointed out.

 

[NirmalKrish]

What a retard, Su-27 is 1980s vintage, none stupid compare a 30 years different technological gap of the Su-27 with current Rafale, Su-27 is just the basic airframe but Su-35 is enhance updated machine.

No shit sunshine, but its still different planes, like when you compare a Su27 to J11-b, which you go on about its indigenous design and its different planes , you would not go on about the rhetoric then! Patethic

 

[SrNair]

Oh Russians.This type of silly comments is seems not good for his diplomatic position.We have our national interest and security.All others are just secondary to it.
Chinese are now capable of developing fighters more advanced than the Russians.
Only fighter that can compete Rafale is Chinese own J 20 or J31.Russian technologies are outdated .Indians knows that very well than others.That is why we intergrating our own tech and western tech in Su30MKI.

 

[帅的一匹]

We are not capable of devloping AMCA thats exactly the reason that we are going for projects like RAFALE and PAKFA/FGFA to get the knowhow of how to devlop 4.5 to 5th generation aircrafts and devlop a base for private industries and fill all the critical gaps.


Purchaisng RAFALE will not kill AMCA.
AMCA will replace Jaguars when they get ready.

buying Rafale will kill AMCA, if not just postpone it.

 

[NirmalKrish]

buying Rafale will kill AMCA, if not just postpone it.

what's it you guys? we are doing things in our interest, i cant see what is the matter in injecting a stop gap measure till AMCA kicks in. our money our planes full stop.

 

[vk17]

We are not capable of devloping AMCA thats exactly the reason that we are going for projects like RAFALE and PAKFA/FGFA to get the knowhow of how to devlop 4.5 to 5th generation aircrafts and devlop a base for private industries and fill all the critical gaps.


Purchaisng RAFALE will not kill AMCA.
AMCA will replace Jaguars when they get ready.

Brother, I made a point on the logical deduction that Rafael is going to drain $23 billion out of our budget, also that makes it costliest plane in Aviation history.

Do you really think its worth that cost, also what we ignoring is about serious setbacks for several other aquisitions in pipeline, which we had put on back burner because of this deal. These aquisitions are of utmost importance for maintaining our deterrence capability.

And this amount of cost will not only kill major aquisitions but also our R&D allocations.

 

[ashish1]

buying Rafale will kill AMCA, if not just postpone it.

RAFALE will replace Mirages,migs e.t.c.
AMCA is meant to replace Jaguars when they get ready.
Also remember that we have 10 to 11 squadrons short of the required no. of squadrons so actually in next decade we will add more fighters than we will retire.
I cant understand your point of delaying?? We can not devlop AMCA until and unless we get tot by Rafale deal and fill the critical gaps.AMCA devlopment will be followed by signing of of RAFALE deal.

 

[帅的一匹]

Oh Russians.This type of silly comments is seems not good for his diplomatic position.We have our national interest and security.All others are just secondary to it.
Chinese are now capable of developing fighters more advanced than the Russians.
Only fighter that can compete Rafale is Chinese own J 20 or J31.Russian technologies are outdated .Indians knows that very well than others.That is why we intergrating our own tech and western tech in Su30MKI.

J20 is designed to deal with F22, Rafale is not considered as it's rivalry. if you guys buy Rafale instead of pushing AMCA hard, you will achieve nothing in the end.IAF is the chief culprit of the failure, they don't get interested in anything indigenous.