PTI threatens to block NATO supply

[Awesome]

The whole of FATA and KPK should gain its independence from Pakistan, along with Baluchistan. The people of these provinces are treated as if they are less Pakistanis and there is no regard for their concerns and sufferings.

Please... Kuch soch samaj ke baat kia karo. I'm ready for phaday to get my rights, I'm not ready to just pis on the nation I'm fighting for just because it doesn't look like I'm going to win. If KPK has found its way into thinking right it should at least take these pro-Pakistan step of doing all that it can - through peaceful means, protests, using legal options such as KPK police within the norms of the established regulations of the land.

The understanding should be passed to the people in other regions as well that their leaders are traitors to their own nation.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Primary reason is aid, i.e. bribe money given to Pakistani leaders. Pakistani leaders have converted the country into a beggar state and where else will you get your money to loot if the nation has squat?

.........

In the mean time some further funds were released to Pakistan, i.e. into their pockets.

With PTI, they have stated on thing categorically, they will not take aid - categorically aid from the US. If they remain true to this - I'm sure koi bhooka nahi marne wala we spent the 90s with American sanctions as well, and if Sep 11 wouldn't have happened we still would have been surviving on those sanctions. I'm sure we would have been better off if Sep 11 had not happened. Sep 11 as someone I know put it, was really an attack on Pakistan as we got screwed the most. Everyone else came out better. Anyway I'm digressing. Pakistan not only lacks an honest leadership, its plagued by a leadership which in any other country would be hanged for treason en masse for its crimes against its own nation.

Supporters of drone attacks IMO are just those, mulk dushman, gaddaar. I can't accept any other label for someone who wants a foreign military to bomb their own nation.

But @Awesome Saeenjee, Aid money released to the Government of Pakistan is auditable on the US side and records are available. How can it be funneled into the personal pockets of our leaders unless it is happening on our side of the books and not theirs? In that case, the onus to rectify that situation must also lie with us and not them.

If it is sure that we can survive without further aid, then we should do it, no matter whose government is in power. But si it really that easy:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/economy-development/255765-pakistan-may-next-line-imf-bailout.html

The IMF would probably need to be approached even by PTI if it had won the elections.

I do agree with your last line.

 

[FaujHistorian]

The whole of FATA and KPK should gain its independence from Pakistan, along with Baluchistan. The people of these provinces are treated as if they are less Pakistanis and there is no regard for their concerns and sufferings.

Your shameful statements show that you are utterly disloyal to your country of birth
AND

you are disloyal to your adopted country.



peace

p.s. In pakistan we translate "disloyalty" to "Be-gharty".

 

[Awesome]

Thank you for the first yes, but for the second yes, do you mean to imply that the COAS will consult with the Corps Commanders or will he accept the role of the elected Prime Minster in making such important policy decisions per the Constitution?

It's true Musharraf holds the fault for starting this mess, but subsequent COASs (or CJCSC whatever) may have taken the decision as well and hold the blame too.

Musharraf for not taking action t hen. If he would have shot the first drone down in 2004, nobody would have cared the issue would have been nipped in the bud. It takes only an idiot to say Oh I just gave them permission to do a little bombing but now they are doing a lot of bombing. Look at American history, all the nations that have let American military in, they have totally subdued those nations eventually.

But subsequent leaders still could have shot them down RIGHT after taking charge.

Now that the issue is politicized Kayani can still take action. He can announce tomorrow... Okay I'm shooting the drone down unless told otherwise by the Prime Minister, because defending Pakistan from foreign military attacks is the standing order of the Pak armed forces, is it not? If it is and Pak civilian government has said maybe 100 times it has not given permission to a foreign military to attack Pak, then the fault also lies with the military leader.

 

[ghilzai]

The whole of FATA and KPK should gain its independence from Pakistan, along with Baluchistan. The people of these provinces are treated as if they are less Pakistanis and there is no regard for their concerns and sufferings.

I said that in anger and pained me to say it, but one day Insha Allah we will overcome but united as Pakistani and only pakistanis, we are Pakistan so how can we gain independence from ourselves?. Make Pakistan independent of the corrupt, dictators, puppets, foreign agents.

Never whisper a bad name against this land, individuals are to blame and not the land, Pakistan zindabad.

Your shameful statements show that you are utterly disloyal to your country of birth
AND

you are disloyal to your adopted country.



peace

p.s. In pakistan we translate "disloyalty" to "Be-gharty".

Chillax mate, he didn't mean it like that.

 

[Awesome]

But @Awesome Saeenjee, Aid money released to the Government of Pakistan is auditable on the US side and records are available. How can it be funneled into the personal pockets of our leaders unless it is happening on our side of the books and not theirs? In that case, the onus to rectify that situation must also lie with us and not them.

Auditable? Records of such Audits are available anywhere? Anyone to date can't give a record of where the $20Bn (figure from way back in 2009) that the Americans gave us went. Forget that, can you give me a record of where the KLB funds went?

Cables reveal Pakistan diverted U.S. aid | The Hindu

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Musharraf admits US aid diverted

Once you enter the aid into local programs, into the local economy - how hard is it for them to steal this? PPP toh phir bhi khulay chor thay toh pakray jaatay thay, PMLN are white collared criminals. They will first buy cheap land, then launch mega projects around them raise their own land value. This is as much a robbery as PPPs in most civilized nations. But this will be harder to trace. You can see PMLN's shenanigans in the 90s with the ISI and Army chiefs JUST came out.

To say they are auditable in the US is similar to the saying, Mudai Sust, gawah chust. How do you think their decision makers would ultimately view success of their aid? We gave them $1 Bn, we expect them to allow 50 bombings in exchange for this. Did they allow it? They allowed 51? good. Audit grade A!

Why would US care?

If it is sure that we can survive without further aid, then we should do it, no matter whose government is in power

We can survive. Question has always been would such an existence be called living? I ask it another way - would aided existence be called living? Even doctors declare people living on life support to be technically (or was it clinically?) dead.

Every year your existence gets worse, not better. This logic of taking aid is synonymous to a person who pays his minimum amount due on his credit card with another credit card every month. Prolongs the inevitable, but ultimately will default.

 

[Desert Fox]

Your shameful statements show that you are utterly disloyal to your country of birth
AND

LOL, ok.

you are disloyal to your adopted country.

Don't pull BS out of your rear end, because it stinks badly.

Here in America, everyone is equal under the law. Muslims get better treatment from non-Muslim White Americans than they would by their own fellow Muslims in their own Muslim countries of origin.

p.s. In pakistan we translate "disloyalty" to "Be-gharty".

You must speak from experience.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

The whole of FATA and KPK should gain its independence from Pakistan, along with Baluchistan. The people of these provinces are treated as if they are less Pakistanis and there is no regard for their concerns and sufferings.

But pakhtuns themeselves have failed to emerge as most educated and progressive community even though oppurtunities are available for them in Pakistan to do so......Pakhtun is a hajoom not a Qaum, they behave like baradran-e-yousaf with each other and you expect them to run a country on their own?

 

[Desert Fox]

Please... Kuch soch samaj ke baat kia karo. I'm ready for phaday to get my rights, I'm not ready to just pis on the nation I'm fighting for just because it doesn't look like I'm going to win. If KPK has found its way into thinking right it should at least take these pro-Pakistan step of doing all that it can - through peaceful means, protests, using legal options such as KPK police within the norms of the established regulations of the land.

The understanding should be passed to the people in other regions as well that their leaders are traitors to their own nation.

Problem is, that people of other regions wouldn't understand the plight of the people of the Western Provinces unless Drones Strikes are carried out in Rural Punjab, Sindh, Lahore, Rawalpindi, and perhaps even Islamabad.

Its a shame really, that despite close proximity to KPK and FATA, it should take the people of other provinces some time to understand the sufferings of their fellow "countrymen" of that province/region?

When you have Americans sitting thousands of miles away realizing the hypocritical nature of these Drone Strikes and the collateral damage/civilian cost of these strikes and thus protesting against their government.


So this is how people of the Western Provinces are treated? Is it because despite their sacrifices for their country they still haven't proven their loyalty to millions of other Pakistanis? The same Waziris being butchered with the consent of PA and GoP, their forefathers participated in the liberation of what is now Azad Kashimir. This is how they are paid back for their loyalty by the rent-a-Army of Pakistan and its government.

 

[airmarshal]

I think establishment in Rawalpindi, which is a partner in this unnecessary war in on terror, must be listening to these statements.

I want KPK government to succeed and deliver on promises but as soon as KPK government even intends to take such step, establishment will come into action and with the manipulation in the assembly, will unseat PTI government.

 

[ghilzai]

I think establishment in Rawalpindi, which is a partner in this unnecessary war in on terror, must be listening to these statements.

I want KPK government to succeed and deliver on promises but as soon as KPK government even intends to take such step, establishment will come into action and with the manipulation in the assembly, will unseat PTI government.

They can't unsettle 30 million plus of us, hopefully the other 150 million will follow, time for pukhtoon soldiers in PA to start mutiny.

 

[Captain Spark]

time for pukhtoon soldiers in PA to start mutiny.

Even many of your own fellow countrymen would call u mad.

 

[ghilzai]

Even many of your own fellow countrymen would call u mad.

Mutiny as putting pressure on the top order that we are unhappy, we will not fight our people, we will not kill our people for someone else's war.

I don't mean break away or fight, just make your displeasure known and if its not heard and the orders given are against our constitution and law of the land then you have moral duty and obligation to the people and the land to refuse to obey that order.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

They can't unsettle 30 million plus of us, hopefully the other 150 million will follow, time for pukhtoon soldiers in PA to start mutiny.

Mutiny against whom?. Pashtuns in pakistan army are as much faujis as punjabis , they are fighting against TTP and extremism , and drones kill those extremists....so why pakhtuns in PA will have objection over drone strikes? Also they are not ethno-centric like you.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

It's true Musharraf holds the fault for starting this mess, but subsequent COASs (or CJCSC whatever) may have taken the decision as well and hold the blame too.

Musharraf for not taking action t hen. If he would have shot the first drone down in 2004, nobody would have cared the issue would have been nipped in the bud. It takes only an idiot to say Oh I just gave them permission to do a little bombing but now they are doing a lot of bombing. Look at American history, all the nations that have let American military in, they have totally subdued those nations eventually.

But subsequent leaders still could have shot them down RIGHT after taking charge.

Now that the issue is politicized Kayani can still take action. He can announce tomorrow... Okay I'm shooting the drone down unless told otherwise by the Prime Minister, because defending Pakistan from foreign military attacks is the standing order of the Pak armed forces, is it not? If it is and Pak civilian government has said maybe 100 times it has not given permission to a foreign military to attack Pak, then the fault also lies with the military leader.

All it takes is one good person to set the hitherto wrong trends on the correct trajectory. Whether that person is the next PM or the next COAS still remains to be seen, if it happens.

Auditable? Records of such Audits are available anywhere? Anyone to date can't give a record of where the $20Bn (figure from way back in 2009) that the Americans gave us went. Forget that, can you give me a record of where the KLB funds went?

Cables reveal Pakistan diverted U.S. aid | The Hindu

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Musharraf admits US aid diverted

Once you enter the aid into local programs, into the local economy - how hard is it for them to steal this? PPP toh phir bhi khulay chor thay toh pakray jaatay thay, PMLN are white collared criminals. They will first buy cheap land, then launch mega projects around them raise their own land value. This is as much a robbery as PPPs in most civilized nations. But this will be harder to trace. You can see PMLN's shenanigans in the 90s with the ISI and Army chiefs JUST came out.

To say they are auditable in the US is similar to the saying, Mudai Sust, gawah chust. How do you think their decision makers would ultimately view success of their aid? We gave them $1 Bn, we expect them to allow 50 bombings in exchange for this. Did they allow it? They allowed 51? good. Audit grade A!

Why would US care?



We can survive. Question has always been would such an existence be called living? I ask it another way - would aided existence be called living? Even doctors declare people living on life support to be technically (or was it clinically?) dead.

Every year your existence gets worse, not better. This logic of taking aid is synonymous to a person who pays his minimum amount due on his credit card with another credit card every month. Prolongs the inevitable, but ultimately will default.

At least USA cares about how it spends its money to get good value out of it. There is nothing stopping us from doing the same with the money we get but ourselves.