Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[Goenitz]

iu have a very high opinion of yourself. Do u know how many capable young me and women there are in Pakistan. Get off your Shetland pony and smell the coffee. Pakistan doesn't need you. Stay away

The 90% if not entire western mechanical industry (R&D, manufacturing, especially) is running on two things: FEM & CAD and control system engineering. If one knows how much he lacks in that arena, he would beg to bring those experts to run his technical industry. JamD is very good at the later and far more precious than one can imagine.

 

[sal29]

Sure we need a skilled workers as I highlighted before that Apollo computer was made by women as they were good at knitting.
Yes, we need a team and a healthy balance (dependent on the department) between researchers, engineers and skill workers.
My whole argument was that PhD or research broadens your horizon. I don't think just through experience you can learn that. Look at this famous stages of learning.
Synthesis and evaluation are core competency of the researcher. MS and BS students are good at analysis whereas skilled workers are good at application. It is just an opinion.

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Depends upon how you look at it. I would say it focuses it and lets you gain knowledge with a specific focus area. You cannot ask a PhD who did his research in battery chemistry lets say to build a new type of explosive. He will have to go through the entire process of learning about explosives. On the other hand you can ask an engineer who worked on smart watch development to develop a cnc machine and it won't be that difficult for him as it is an engineering problem. But you cannot of course ask that engineer to come up with a new original explosive chemistry for that you do need a PhD or requisite knowledge for that domain. In the end it depends what you are doing. Are you making something that is totally new (next generation) or something that is established (this generation). You need a mix of team depending upon that. For Pakistan we first have to focus on this generation of products before we can think of developing next generation of products.

 

[Goenitz]

You cannot ask a PhD who did his research in battery chemistry lets say to build a new type of explosive.

I think he can but he will take time. Many people steered their career topic from PhD to post-doc. From combustion methods to forming polymers/composites.

On the other hand you can ask an engineer who worked on smart watch development to develop a cnc machine and it won't be that difficult for him as it is an engineering problem.

Sure, he can. It is said mathematicians and physicists can do anything. Seriously, they can (math is universe language)
The watch engineer can surely make CNC machine (its not difficult anyway). But i get your point and agree with it. Even the watch engineer can make new explosives but he will take time (normally people with IQ 120 can do anything, engineers normally have that). My argument is that PhD holder will reach sooner and professionally.

I agree with you man as nothing is straight. Your theory will totally work and I think mine too.

 

[Trango Towers]

The 90% if not entire western mechanical industry (R&D, manufacturing, especially) is running on two things: FEM & CAD and control system engineering. If one knows how much he lacks in that arena, he would beg to bring those experts to run his technical industry. JamD is very good at the later and far more precious than one can imagine.

No one is that valuable...and do u know if he will be alive in the morning. When u are arrogant its not good

 

[Indos]

Getting job requires patience, work and time. PhD running business is also healthy. If those scholars are not bounded by bonds, then they can apply for post-doc. Else, do M-Ed or some education certificate (PgCHPE Post-doc certificate in higher and professional education) and go gulf.

PhD is not a magical thing. It increases the job probability but getting hired is also luck. Even in UK, there is job scarcity.
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see dying US tenureship

In Indonesia we are not getting Phd to get jobs. Phd tuition is basically funded by the institution they are already working. Mostly Phd is for some one who has carrier in education like university, state owned enterprises, or government research agency.

In here, mostly Master degree that are mostly pursued independently ( either by their own fund or get scholarship)

I think he can but he will take time. Many people steered their career topic from PhD to post-doc. From combustion methods to forming polymers/composites.

Sure, he can. It is said mathematicians and physicists can do anything. Seriously, they can (math is universe language)
The watch engineer can surely make CNC machine (its not difficult anyway). But i get your point and agree with it. Even the watch engineer can make new explosives but he will take time (normally people with IQ 120 can do anything, engineers normally have that). My argument is that PhD holder will reach sooner and professionally.

I agree with you man as nothing is straight. Your theory will totally work and I think mine too.

Well the best solution is always about increasing our degree based on what we are currently working. I mean dont just go stright to Phd from Bachelor degree. Better finding work first and then choose our Master degree based on our needs ( company/institution needs) after working in our specialty field for some years, and then go to Phd similar way if there is a need for that. So in this way, Phd holders will always get the job again after they finish their study

So Phd holder coming directly from Industry is the one that is priceless since they do have experience and the reason they go to Phd is to perfect their knowledge.

Phd holder who are working in Academic ( lectures) should also do research beside teaching and this will make their knowledge is not just about theory, so as long as they do research, Phd holder is already very experience in their field. My cousin is also a researcher in radar development and he said that radar industry in Europe get helped from the researchers in their university

Other way to make Phd holders in Universities make their knowledge applicable is to set up a technology company. In Indonesia best STEM university like ITB (Bandung Institute of Technology), the university make state owned enterprises where the reason to do it is to bring theory into practicality and make products.

One of our government research Agency (LIPI) also make a company in electronic field and now the company has been quite big (PT LEN Industry)

 

[PakFactor]

In Indonesia we are not getting Phd to get jobs. Phd tuition is basically funded by the institution they are already working. Mostly Phd is for some one who has carrier in education like university, state owned enterprises, or government research agency.

In here, mostly Master degree that are mostly pursued independently ( either by their own fund or get scholarship)



Well the best solution is always about increasing our degree based on what we are currently working. I mean dont just go stright to Phd from Bachelor degree. Better finding work first and then choose our Master degree based on our needs ( company/institution needs) after working in our specialty field for some years, and then go to Phd similar way if there is a need for that. So in this way, Phd holders will always get the job again after they finish their study

So Phd holder coming directly from Industry is the one that is priceless since they do have experience and the reason they go to Phd is to perfect their knowledge.

Phd holder who are working in Academic ( lectures) should also do research beside teaching and this will make their knowledge is not just about theory, so as long as they do research, Phd holder is already very experience in their field. My cousin is also a researcher in radar development and he said that radar industry in Europe get helped from the researchers in their university

Other way to make Phd holders in Universities make their knowledge applicable is to set up a technology company. In Indonesia best STEM university like ITB (Bandung Institute of Technology), the university make state owned enterprises where the reason to do it is to bring theory into practicality and make products.

One of our government research Agency (LIPI) also make a company in electronic field and now the company has been quite big (PT LEN Industry)

The model you mentioned of Indonesia University acting as feeder programs is the best approach and that’s what I want Pakistan to implement. The best model I’ve seen in US very similar is Colorado University System, it’s aero and rocket programs feeds student directly into Boeing and Lockheed Martin, etc. from BA to MA

 

[Goenitz]

The tourism industry is so advanced and precise (hotel management, travel plan, facilities, etc etc) that Bali alone attract 6.9 million foreign tourists whereas the entire India attracts 10.93 million international tourists.

I thought you tagged me for that

I mean dont just go stright to Phd from Bachelor degree. Better finding work first and then choose our Master degree based on our needs ( company/institution needs) after working in our specialty field for some years, and then go to Phd similar way if there is a need for that. So in this way, Phd holders will always get the job again after they finish their study

That is best route. They are called here chartered engineers. The industry experience before PhD is valuable and even after it but the best route is job firs and then PhD. Even before MSc job is far far better.

So Phd holder coming directly from Industry is the one that is priceless since they do have experience and the reason they go to Phd is to perfect their knowledge.

Yup

Phd holder who are working in Academic ( lectures) should also do research beside teaching and this will make their knowledge is not just about theory, so as long as they do research, Phd holder is already very experience in their field.

Yup. Simple lecturer job is not enough. People here keep researching and publishing. In Pakistan however, people get stagnated.

Other way to make Phd holders in Universities make their knowledge applicable is to set up a technology company. In Indonesia best STEM university like ITB (Bandung Institute of Technology), the university make state owned enterprises where the reason to do it is to bring theory into practicality and make products.

STEM and STEAM are future. The end product is so inter disciplinary that people should get basics of everything.
Normally what you have said are called research group PhDs where topics are already selected. Independent PhDs are where topic is dependent on the candidate.

 

[Indos]

The model you mentioned of Indonesia University acting as feeder programs is the best approach and that’s what I want Pakistan to implement. The best model I’ve seen in US very similar is Colorado University System, it’s aero and rocket programs feeds student directly into Boeing and Lockheed Martin, etc. from BA to MA

Yup, USA is already a very clear model that we can follow.

One structural change that I think is needed for Pakistan is to make all tech company under Armed Force being managed and owned by SOE minister (lead by professionals).

For Indonesia case, we are still lacking R&D budget although since 2004 we are quite serious to develop our defense industry, at least we focus on several targets where we think we still can achieve something.

What I see is that many structural/organizational change can be taken to improve the overall result. Just for example, in Indonesia civil service working in Finance Ministry get huge salary since they need to recruit the best and eliminate corruption. By looking to my cousin life I dont think our current government do similar thing to their R&D people, they do have enough salary but in order to get better human resource input we need to pay them similar or even if needed above what private sectors can offer them.

 

[JamD]

Yiu have a very high opinion of yourself. Do u know how many capable young me and women there are in Pakistan. Get off your Shetland pony and smell the coffee. Pakistan doesn't need you. Stay away

My opinion of myself is irrelevant. The issue is whether or not Pakistan can attract talent or not. If I point out the deficiencies of that system and you and @messiach take that personally and make it ego ko masla then please welcome to my ignore list. Zindigi or bohat masail hai, I cant spend my time in pissing contests, my point is about institutions and policy.

 

[Trango Towers]

My opinion of myself is irrelevant. The issue is whether or not Pakistan can attract talent or not. If I point out the deficiencies of that system and you and @messiach take that personally and make it ego ko masla then please welcome to my ignore list. Zindigi or bohat masail hai, I cant spend my time in pissing contests, my point is about institutions and policy.

Well it managed to attract patriots in the past didn't it. Dr Abdul Qadeer is just one name.
I would support you re deficiencies as that's the only way to improve...its the way you said it.
Ignore will be better...well u will lose the pissing contest but win the .... look at how great I am in the mirror.

Have a nice day

 

[Indos]

My opinion of myself is irrelevant. The issue is whether or not Pakistan can attract talent or not. If I point out the deficiencies of that system and you and @messiach take that personally and make it ego ko masla then please welcome to my ignore list. Zindigi or bohat masail hai, I cant spend my time in pissing contests, my point is about institutions and policy.

Does Pakistan Aerospace engineers diaspora make an organization that can connect and give input to Pakistan Aerospace Industry ?

 

[Trango Towers]

Does Pakistan Aerospace engineers diaspora make an organization that can connect and give input to Pakistan Aerospace Industry ?

You cannot do that...I am just one such engineer and many like me with years of experience. Just because we mess about here doesn't mean we are like this in private lives.i have friends who no longer work in the aviation industry but are still bound by the secrets acts and privacy clauses.

I worked for UK MOD and BAE. You have to sign documentation that states no hanky panky with other countries

 

[Falcon26]

The model you mentioned of Indonesia University acting as feeder programs is the best approach and that’s what I want Pakistan to implement. The best model I’ve seen in US very similar is Colorado University System, it’s aero and rocket programs feeds student directly into Boeing and Lockheed Martin, etc. from BA to MA

It is called the triple helix model and it has been hugely successful in the US and Europe. A collaboration between government, academia and industry.

Triple helix model of innovation - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Indos]

You cannot do that...I am just one such engineer and many like me with years of experience. Just because we mess about here doesn't mean we are like this in private lives.i have friends who no longer work in the aviation industry but are still bound by the secrets acts and privacy clauses.

I worked for UK MOD and BAE. You have to sign documentation that states no hanky panky with other countries

I mean just build a diaspora organization will not harm anybody, the organization will connect to the country industry and give valuable inputs. Indonesia Aerospace also has good connection with their diaspora and employ some of them for KFX/IFX project. They appear physically during discussion about our Aerospace Industry or during big event.

During 2014, the plan is to bring half of them back to Indonesia. We have around 200 engineers working in Western Aerospace industry.

IPTN North America is a subsidiary company of Indonesia Aerospace

 

[Goenitz]

I mean just build a diaspora organization will not harm anybody, the organization will connect to the country industry and give valuable inputs.

We have good netwroks for helping each other for pursuing jobs and academics. May be we need national database of our foreign workforce so that Govt can recruit easily.
The thing you have described is done by consultancy firms in west. That is very important thing for industry for recruiting workforce, machine and legal advice.
@Trango Towers Check scholarship network on fb if you are seeking higher education or job.