PPP Ministers Sharjeel Memon, Murad Ali Shah and Gayan Chand caught coming out of a London Pub

[BetterPakistan]

Look at your great leader, Murad Saeed, Naeem ul Haq, Jahangeer Tareen, Abdul Aleem Khan to name a few and cousin of your leader, Padri. Want more names?


Add Khattak too. And please stay tuned of more corrupions of Tareen, regarding deforestation in KPK>

Present me a credible source of corruption of these people. Give me a single proof of corruption these PTI members you mentioned did

Ask those who have first hand experience with these baboons ----
he is just one case, many others are there ---- so the ground reality is not one leader is worthy of being trusted ----- you have idiots in all parties but handing them a charge of an area is a mistake i would personally regret -------

http://www.dawn.com/news/1179412
http://www.thenews.com.pk/print/38322-sindh-issues-ex-minister-sons-detention-orders

this is just one company ---- PPL while exploring in Rajanpur block was extorted by same man ---- another foreign company has paid millions of PKR in extortion to this man ---- i have been there, i have seen that ------Polish company was lucky atleast sindh came to their rescue ----- for us it was total state of helplessness ----- heck when his son came to visit the area, he had Police mobile escort ------ that really killed me that day -----
@RAMPAGE @Tipu7

I respect your views but my leader is one whom i trust and no one can accused him of corruption.

 

[Zibago]

Present me a credible source of corruption of these people. Give me a single proof of corruption these PTI members you mentioned did



I respect your views but my leader is one whom i trust and no one can accused him of corruption.

Source GEO news

 

[Scharfschütze]

Look at your great leader, Murad Saeed, Naeem ul Haq, Jahangeer Tareen, Abdul Aleem Khan to name a few and cousin of your leader, Padri. Want more names?


Add Khattak too. And please stay tuned of more corrupions of Tareen, regarding deforestation in KPK>

Let's suppose they are corrupt, does it make NS free from corruption? stop fighting like girls

 

[RazorMC]

I like how he cares so much for Pakistan but immediately claims to be a British citizen.

We all deserve these thugs in leadership.

 

[Joe Shearer]

you have met one now sir,

You of all people know that is is wrong to generalize about such issues. There are few people who drink in our society, there might be more then a few but that do not changes the fact that our religion prohibits us from doing this.

Also our people need to understand that each man have to pay for what he does, everyone will have to answer for his own deeds so if there are such people, they will be responsible for there own deeds.

However, what you or others also need to know about is that this same religion tells us that this is wrong and anything that is wrong must be stopped, if you cannot stop it at least try to talk the man response out of it, if you even cant do it then the third and the least you should do is to understand that the particular thing is wrong and acknowledge it to oneself.

So lets all tone it down and little bit and hope that common sense and tolerance prevails.

To be honest, I believe it is between those men and their makers, since they believe in such things. If they profess a religion, I will certainly not try to wean them away from it. By no means. But if they deviate on their own, it is not so clearly my duty to point out to them the wrongs of their ways according to the religion that they profess. There is certainly the thought that knowing that by his lights the man is wrong to drink, one should acknowledge that it is wrong behaviour on his part, as you point out. Suppose, however, that he does not agree with this injunction, or with the tenets of his religion in general, what should I do? Should I enter into a religious discussion with him, and persuade him to adhere to the strict observance of it? Considering that I am an atheist, that would be monstrous behaviour (on my part).

I understand your point, but cannot persuade myself that acting and thinking as you advise is truly the proper course.

 

[Lucky Breeze]

Jo pass aye wo jamhori mureed jo na aye wo ISI ka agent

Nihari waley bawa ji

ye roti kapra makaan walon ka slogan hai.

 

[Zibago]

ye roti kapra makaan walon ka slogan hai.

Na ji ye slogan panama leaks mein Pakistan ka naam roshan karney waley bawa ji ka hey

 

[Lucky Breeze]

Na ji ye slogan panama leaks mein Pakistan ka naam roshan karney waley bawa ji ka hey

theek hai sir

 

[HAIDER]

British Pakistani insults these thugs.

bhai interior Sind me pani kam sharab ziada haa......

 

[My-Analogous]

While leadership of PMLN is full of angels and saints

 

[raj76]

exposing and hurling abuses is totally different things would have appreciated the video if it was without abuses

 

[Arsalan]

To be honest, I believe it is between those men and their makers, since they believe in such things. If they profess a religion, I will certainly not try to wean them away from it. By no means. But if they deviate on their own, it is not so clearly my duty to point out to them the wrongs of their ways according to the religion that they profess. There is certainly the thought that knowing that by his lights the man is wrong to drink, one should acknowledge that it is wrong behaviour on his part, as you point out. Suppose, however, that he does not agree with this injunction, or with the tenets of his religion in general, what should I do? Should I enter into a religious discussion with him, and persuade him to adhere to the strict observance of it? Considering that I am an atheist, that would be monstrous behaviour (on my part).

I understand your point, but cannot persuade myself that acting and thinking as you advise is truly the proper course.

I think you understand and just agreed with what i said quoting Islam sir. We are both saying the same thing, just words are different

To be honest, I believe it is between those men and their makers, since they believe in such things.

Agreed with, that is what i said.

Also our people need to understand that each man have to pay for what he does, everyone will have to answer for his own deeds so if there are such people, they will be responsible for there own deeds.

About what ones reaction should or could be if they deviate from there beliefs and do something wrong by there religion.

There is certainly the thought that knowing that by his lights the man is wrong to drink, one should acknowledge that it is wrong behavior on his part, as you point out.

That is what Islam calls as "the least you should do"

if you even cant do it then the third and the least you should do is to understand that the particular thing is wrong and acknowledge it to oneself.

The one disagreement that we have is here:

Suppose, however, that he does not agree with this injunction, or with the tenets of his religion in general, what should I do? Should I enter into a religious discussion with him, and persuade him to adhere to the strict observance of it?

but then you say

Considering that I am an atheist, that would be monstrous behavior (on my part).

So it is also not a disagreement but just a misunderstanding. Firstly, the guide line is for Muslims to follow if they see other Muslims doing that wrong thing not for atheist. Even in that case, there is a way out, the third level or what i called "the least you can do" which you said that is right, which is to know in your heart that what is happening is wrong.

EDIT: Now that i look at this reply i see who complicated it is, i hope you will understand my point of view, else i will try to explain it in some better way as i think this is a bit confusing, i was just trying to reply point by point.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I think you understand and just agreed with what i said quoting Islam sir. We are both saying the same thing, just words are different

Agreed with, that is what i said.


About what ones reaction should or could be if they deviate from there beliefs and do something wrong by there religion.

That is what Islam calls as "the least you should do"


The one disagreement that we have is here:

but then you say

So it is also not a disagreement but just a misunderstanding. Firstly, the guide line is for Muslims to follow if they see other Muslims doing that wrong thing not for atheist. Even in that case, there is a way out, the third level or what i called "the least you can do" which you said that is right, which is to know in your heart that what is happening is wrong.

EDIT: Now that i look at this reply i see who complicated it is, i hope you will understand my point of view, else i will try to explain it in some better way as i think this is a bit confusing, i was just trying to reply point by point.

No, no, not complicated at all. It is the reply I should have expected from a good Muslim, good in the best and fullest sense of the word.

I was trying to explain my personal aversion to taking sides, and you have actually caught my dilemma completely. Perhaps it will also help to explain that I don't consider alcohol harmful morally, but do realise the punishment it gives one's body and brain, and have therefore cut down my intake to very modest levels (compared to a colourful past).

So to sum up, I think it is not wrong for an individual to drink; I think it is wrong for an individual who professes to be an observant Muslim to drink; I think that for an individual who has lost his faith, I will reserve my own judgement, as being not in a position to judge him.

Incidentally, it is not that I do not understand clearly what you are conveying; while pondering over your very fair arguments, I realised that I feel indignant and upset when I see a Sikh smoking, although I remain an atheist in his case as much as I am one here. This is clearly the morally anchored position that you had hoped to see.

 

[RAMPAGE]

I think you understand and just agreed with what i said quoting Islam sir. We are both saying the same thing, just words are different

Agreed with, that is what i said.


About what ones reaction should or could be if they deviate from there beliefs and do something wrong by there religion.

That is what Islam calls as "the least you should do"


The one disagreement that we have is here:

but then you say

So it is also not a disagreement but just a misunderstanding. Firstly, the guide line is for Muslims to follow if they see other Muslims doing that wrong thing not for atheist. Even in that case, there is a way out, the third level or what i called "the least you can do" which you said that is right, which is to know in your heart that what is happening is wrong.

EDIT: Now that i look at this reply i see who complicated it is, i hope you will understand my point of view, else i will try to explain it in some better way as i think this is a bit confusing, i was just trying to reply point by point.

I believe that the particular Hadith you're talking about is referring to a situation when a person is wronging/hurting another person. You're not required to physically prevent someone from drinking.

 

[Windows 10]

Why do you have pubs in Islamic Republic of Pakistan if no one can visit there ? You people have a habit of making fuss about everything. Let them live they want to live.