PNS Alamgir passing through Istanbul on her way to the Black Sea

[Penguin]

Dear Sir, with respect I beg to differ that it is potent, in modern warfare a big size ship like Alamgie without proper air defense is useless in real wartime scenario. Further harpoons with range of mere 120KM are not worthy.

It all depends on what you intend to use it for, and where, and in what company.

Besides, Sipri's General Trade Register says Pakistan bought Harpoon RGM-84L (Block 2) in 2005 and 2007.
http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/trade_register.php
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...-$370m-deal-for-harpoon-missiles-(jun-2).html

The Block II (L version) has a longer range I believe, and land attack capability
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpoon_(missile)
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-84_Harpoon
http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/HH10+-+Harpoon.html
http://www.worldmissiles.com/sample.php

Those Z-9s can well assist in over the horizon targeting.

PNS Alamgir it is, by the way.

 

[The Sandman]

Man this looks so.... old.

 

[Penguin]

Is it the same System which was Removed from the OHP which was Given to Pakistan Navy ?

These systems were not removed. See to the right of the CAS dome, the square thingy atop the bridge is the SLQ 32. And see at the bottom of the mast carrying the search radar, the three 'pipes' is the SRBOC.

Pakistan Naval Ship (PNS) ALAMGIR visit to Aqaba Port 26-29 October, 2014.
http://embassyofpakistanjordan.com/archives/1126

SLQ-32 atop bridge wings

Navy Dockyard, Karachi, July 19th 2011
https://defence.pk/threads/pns-alamgir-sets-sail-for-pakistan.99492/page-6#post-2269059

SLQ-32 below to the left of CAS, SRBOC below the flag in the mainmast.

KUWAIT CITY, July 2, 2011
http://news.pakistanisinkuwait.com/?p=3343

Pakistani personnel embarked during December 2010 and were trained to operate the vessel to USN standards. Sea trials began in late January 2011. The goal was to sail Alamgir away on 10 February 2011. The sea trials were delayed for several weeks as repairs had to be conducted in the water due to lack of available drydock space (she bumped something in dock). Ultimately, the repairs were completed on 22 February 2011, with sea trials being completed in the following weeks, departing Florida in time to reach Bermuda one month later on 24 March 2011.

The two 2011 pics above are from her maiden voyage to Pakistan. SRBOC and SLQ-32 were onboard.


To bolster AAW capability, one could take a 5 round LY-60 launcher from a retired Amazon/Tariq claas and mount it forward in the bow area. The issue would be the firecontrol radar. This could possibly fit the platform behind the satcom on the superstructure but forward of the 76mm (where the STIR for Standard missile used to be). Or mount a Sylver A35 or A43 VLS with quadpacked VT1 missiles ( https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/default/files/asset/document/Thales A4 VT1 04_10.pdf) Or mount a STIR there and instal a 8-cell mk 41 with 32 ESSM. Or a modern 3D radar coupled to Sea Ceptor active radar homing SAM. Or 18-24 round IR homing HQ10 multiple launcher .

 

[Imad.Khan]

This might be a silly question, but don't the ships hoist the flag of the country, i can't see Pakistan flag on this ship

 

[Penguin]

Can these American ships be armed with Chinese made missiles?

I don't see why not. The Taiwanese have armed their locally built version of the ship with subsonic Hsui Feng II and supersonic Hsui Feng III antiship missiles.

Note here too the 6 SRBOC tubes in the foreground and the SLQ32 in the back (the (V)2 variant - which is most common - added the ability to receive surveillance and targeting radars and provided a passive targeting capability for Harpoon missile-equipped ships).Below it near the uniformed sailor is the Sidekick jammer installed on block 2 Perrys (the longer ones) but not on PNS Alamgir (which is a block 1, shorter ship)

This might be a silly question, but don't the ships hoist the flag of the country, i can't see Pakistan flag on this ship

Whil at sea, in the main mast.

While in port, at the stern.

Here visiting Kuwait, see Pakistan country flag at the stern and Kuwaiti flag on the mainmast

Man this looks so.... old.

PN faces block obsolescence of its major surface units. The four F-22s alleviate that problem a bit. But obviously more new hulls are needed. Thern agsain, getting the PNS Alamgir cost just $65 million because it was a hot transfer navy to navy. That's pretty cheap by all accounts.

 

[somebozo]

It looks so vintage

 

[Tank131]

It may look vintage but this ship could be quite capable with the right upgrade... The question is of it would be worth it for 1 ship. An 8 cell A43 or A50 would easily fit in front of the mk13 launcher amd the ship could be upgraded with a Aselsan Smart S-mk II. Equipped with Sea Ceptor and this would be the most capable vessel in PN by far (8 AShM with 278km range and 32 SAMs with 60km range and a 250km surface/air surveillance radar). But it isnt worth it if it is the only vessel of its type. If PN were to acquire the 3 remaining Adelaides (already equipped with 8 cell mk41 systems) and equipped all with Sea Ceptor and upgraded radars, then the vessels can serve for another 15-20yrs (probably could have all of it done for around 300-500M for 4 ships) . Again only if it goes for the Adelaides which are likely the only OHPs that could potentially be available to PN in next 5 yrs. These would surpass Tulwar in capabilities with respect to air defense. While being more than capable in antiship and surpassing it in ASW warfare.

If Sea ceptor is not available, i dont see why PN couldn't fit 2 boxes of dk10 on it as they did with ly60 and T21s.

 

[Ghazwa e Hind]

Selam from the Mughal Padishah to the Osmanli Sultans...

Ruhlariniz shad olsun...

View attachment 358217

Allah hu Akbar! Thanks for sharing these sacred portraits

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Allah hu Akbar! Thanks for sharing these sacred portraits

As per Islsmic tradition, the portraits must be heavy distorted. Nevertheless they show remarkable resemblance..

 

[Penguin]

It may look vintage but this ship could be quite capable with the right upgrade... The question is of it would be worth it for 1 ship. An 8 cell A43 or A50 would easily fit in front of the mk13 launcher amd the ship could be upgraded with a Aselsan Smart S-mk II. Equipped with Sea Ceptor and this would be the most capable vessel in PN by far (8 AShM with 278km range and 32 SAMs with 60km range and a 250km surface/air surveillance radar). But it isnt worth it if it is the only vessel of its type. If PN were to acquire the 3 remaining Adelaides (already equipped with 8 cell mk41 systems) and equipped all with Sea Ceptor and upgraded radars, then the vessels can serve for another 15-20yrs (probably could have all of it done for around 300-500M for 4 ships) . Again only if it goes for the Adelaides which are likely the only OHPs that could potentially be available to PN in next 5 yrs. These would surpass Tulwar in capabilities with respect to air defense. While being more than capable in antiship and surpassing it in ASW warfare.

If Sea ceptor is not available, i dont see why PN couldn't fit 2 boxes of dk10 on it as they did with ly60 and T21s.

Or even a single HQ7 8-round launcher, for weapons commonality (though radar director would be larger)

 

[maximuswarrior]

Good to see our ship sailing through the waters of our brotherly country Turkey!

This beauty has served as well, but we need new ships. I don't see the point of upgrading this ship. Better to invest in new and more potent frigates.

 

[Tank131]

There is no point in upgrading it if it is the only OHP in PN. If however you get the Adelaides, then absolutely it is worth upgrading, especially if you equip them with Smart S mk2 and the GENESIS combat management systems. It will give you 4 ships that are as capable (albeit not as stealthy) as Type 054A, with better command and control capabilities for the price of 1 - 1.5 ships. These aflre called stop gaps until you get more modern frigates and could easily serve another 15-20yrs. I dont th8nk Pakistan should be so eager to overlook it. Afterall, its financial situation has not changed so dramatically in the last 6 yesrs that it would give up the notion of 4-6 OHP overnight to give some breathing room. You need numbers in your surface fleet. These could instantly replace T21 while MiLGEM-G is being acquired (which will take at least 6-8 more years for all 4). WHEN new frigates do come they will raise the fleet strength to 12 large surface combatants at least, and all will be hosting modern sensors and weapons. It gives you breathing by not having to pretend the T21s are actually capable of anything other than antipiracy role. And you will have another decade+ to replace them. They are more of a match for IN ships than anything in PN inventory now

 

[Penguin]

One or two SeaRAM (if two, .e. 2x 11 rounds, then remove Phalanx) with 22.5km RAM Block II would dramatically improve self-defence AAW at little cost. Or a single 21 round RAM launcher forward.

Using the Extensible Launch System, RAM Block II can also be quadpacked into a Mk41 cell, just like e.g. the Nulka decoy. So, one could fit an 8 cell Mk41 forward and load it with 6x4 = 24 RAM block II and 2x4=8 Nulka decoys. I could picture installing an additional Phalanx forward with a single 8-cell Mk41 with RAM block II and Nulka.

NB: 22.5km is 2.5x the range of the original RAM missile, 1.5x the range of HQ7/FM-90 and more than the 19km range of RIM-7 Sea Sparrow. Besides a mounting (e.g. over the Mk13 launcher remains), no additional modification required (i.e. installation of a radar illuminator, guidance radar, or optronic director required), unless a Mk41 is fitted in the bow.

These are all relatively low cost solutions.

[Edit: to increase the number of Mk41 cells, some Single Cell Launchers could be mounted against the superstructure sides. Mk41 can also accommodate quadpacked CAMM]

 

[Penguin]

ExLS

SCL

 

[Penguin]

Similarly, one could use 1 or 2 Sylver A35 VLS or 1 x A43 VLS for quadpacked VT1 (would need missile director) or single round VL Mica, CAMM, Umkhonto or Aster-30