PM Imran 'incredibly crucial' to Afghan peace process: US

[KeyBORED Warrior]

interpretation of this statement downfall of IK has initiated ..... 3-5 years max

I beg to differ. For starters, both Ayub and Mush had NO support of the populace. IK is revered like a king among quite a large chunk of the population.
Ayub and Mush needed the US to stay relevant. IK has huge public support and it'll be unwise to underestimate that.
It'll be naive to compare to vastly different eras. Infact the times and Pakistan of Ayub Khan was so starkly different that it almost seems like that was 200y ago when infact it was 60odd y back. Mush was a military dictator to begin with plus he was a secular and that alienated him from the very soul of Pakistani public by his 'enlightened moderation' bullcrap. IK has rather uncannily, carefully metamorphosed from a rockstar playboy to a beads weilding deeply religious type leader.

Every man has a weakness and IK's weakness is that he can be coerced into doing things by mere flattery. Despite his megastar image the guy still falls for people who butter him up. Much like Trump. The US being the cunning superpower it is, is employing the same strategy to make him do what they want him to do. It remains to be seen to what extent will they succeed

 

[HRK]

I get your point but sir if they were so powerful

its not about power but approach in relationship ....

believe IK won't be the PM in the first place

politics is a very complex thing with many dynamics it never depends on a single factor .... rise of IK had domestic factors but we can not ignore that AAZ and NS failed to gather as much support as much they used to get from foreign players

We will definitely work with USA for the establishment of peace in Afghanistan which in the common interest of both USA and Pakistan.

- We will defiantly work for Peace in Afghanistan as it is in our National Interest but partner(s) may vary

- Withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan could be a Political need for Trump but it may or not be a National priority for US as an STATE

Down fall in country because he made a good impression or he is marked for the downfall? I think you mean later

again reading it wrong here I wold like to mention the downfalls of Ayub and Musharraf and purposefully not mentioning Zia how let say was MARKED for downfall

Again as said earlier all I am trying to do is to point the pattern not the reasons, now recall both Mushrraf and Ayub received overwhelming US support when they had firm support from domestic political actors and factors, but over the passage of time they were abandoned by US at the time when they were weak in domestic political theatre due to the non fulfilment reasonable or unreasonable expectations of US with them.

Here again US was giving more importance to Individuals in maintaining the relationship with Pakistan than the Institutions, but the failure of Individuals in their commitments were perceived as Deceit by the State of Pakistan.

 

[Flight of falcon]

come on man its not that I don't believe this .... all I m doing is to points one of factors which contribute to a natural political outcome ....

Here again recognise what Americans are doing I mean they given importance to a PERSONALITY rather to INSTITUTION(S) and tying that personality to a particular OBJECTIVE of American POLICY .... these SHORT TERM GOALS are the main cause of weak Pak-US relation throughout the history

In this non-institutionalise approach of US towards Pakistan they create such a persona and larger than life picture of the Leadership which creates issues in domestic theatre as well

Totally incorrect. IK is way smarter. When he visited WH he took military , the only other decision maker in the country, with him. Heck he even took ISI chief which some believe is more powerful than the army chief himself.
All decision makers were present and IK played his cards extremely well and got what we wanted.
As for astrologers like you your analysis lack any common sense.

 

[Humble Analyst]

its not about power but approach in relationship ....

politics is a very complex thing with many dynamics it never depends on a single factor .... rise of IK had domestic factors but we can not ignore that AAZ and NS failed to gather as support as much they used to get


- We will defiantly work for Peace in Afghanistan as it is in our National Interest but partner(s) may vary

- Withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan could be a Political need for Trump but it may or not be a National priority for US as an STATE


again reading it wrong here I wold like to mention the downfalls of Ayub and Musharraf and purposefully to mention Zia how let say was MARKED for downfall

Again as said earlier all I am trying to do is to point the pattern not the reasons, now recall both Mushrraf and Ayub received overwhelming US support when they had firm support from domestic political actors and factors, but over the passage of time they were abandoned by US at the time when they were weak in domestic political theatre due to the non fulfilment reasonable or unreasonable expectations of US with them.

Here again US was giving more importance to Individuals in maintaining the relationship with Pakistan than the Institutions, but the failure of Individuals in their commitments were perceived as Deceit by the State of Pakistan.

Everybody has a life cycle of utility and especially for user or consumer. I do agree about the part which relates to expectations especially unreasonable ones. However IK has people’s support where as Ayub and Mush lost it

 

[HRK]

Everybody has a life cycle of utility and especially for user or consumer.

State INSTITUTIONS are considered PERPETUAL ENTITIES individual are not ....

However IK has people’s support where as Ayub and Mush lost it

even Ayub and Mush during early days had support ... but after first years 3 it started declining .... I want IK to enjoy support for long enough period but we would be in better position to comment about firm pubic support after completion of 3 years of his government

 

[Verve]

interpretation of this statement downfall of IK has initiated ..... 3-5 years max

USA had already asked military establishment to stop IK, and COAS refused.

IK will most likely have around 7 years in total, a few as a President and then retirement. This system will wrapped up as soon as Northern war starts but Emergency first and then a new Presidential system will come out of that Emergency.

 

[HRK]

I beg to differ.

Its your right

Every man has a weakness and IK's weakness is that he can be coerced into doing things by mere flattery. Despite his megastar image the guy still falls for people who butter him up. Much like Trump. The US being the cunning superpower it is, is employing the same strategy to make him do what they want him to do. It remains to be seen to what extent will they succeed

Agreed .... and exactly because of this reason I am afraid he might have over committed few things like we know at least one thing that he Openly on record said that We will make sure that coming election of Afghanistan would be all INCLUSIVE ELECTION on the other hand Taliban has opposed it in fact they are threatening to attack the election process .

Now this one commitment is such a huge that it is like we have committed to make Taliban shift their 18 years stance and struggle as they don't accept the current Afghan constitution, now by committing this IK has indirectly committed to make Taliban agreed to current Afghan Political setup and the government without even Taliban initiated the negotiation about it

Now If he fails to deliver this which he will as current situation is suggesting US would again term it another DECEIT by Pakistan .....

This system will wrapped up as soon as Northern war starts but Emergency first and then a new Presidential system will come out of that Emergency.

yaap heard rumours about it but no practical ground work is visible

 

[Flight of falcon]

its not about power but approach in relationship ....

politics is a very complex thing with many dynamics it never depends on a single factor .... rise of IK had domestic factors but we can not ignore that AAZ and NS failed to gather as support as much they used to get


- We will defiantly work for Peace in Afghanistan as it is in our National Interest but partner(s) may vary

- Withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan could be a Political need for Trump but it may or not be a National priority for US as an STATE


again reading it wrong here I wold like to mention the downfalls of Ayub and Musharraf and purposefully to mention Zia how let say was MARKED for downfall

Again as said earlier all I am trying to do is to point the pattern not the reasons, now recall both Mushrraf and Ayub received overwhelming US support when they had firm support from domestic political actors and factors, but over the passage of time they were abandoned by US at the time when they were weak in domestic political theatre due to the non fulfilment reasonable or unreasonable expectations of US with them.

Here again US was giving more importance to Individuals in maintaining the relationship with Pakistan than the Institutions, but the failure of Individuals in their commitments were perceived as Deceit by the State of Pakistan.

The problem is that no matter what IK does there are idiots who will find fault in him.
IK was smart enough to hold a public gathering to show his level of popularity. He then impressed everyone with his straightforward approach to complex issues and solutions.
He took everyone that is involved in decision making with him to show that everyone is in the same page.
Americans like making deals and as much as they want to get out of Afghanistan we also desperately need to secure our border and diminish Indian influence.
We also extracted offer of mediation from Trump which will always be mentioned in the future no matter what.

But most importantly we needed to reset our future relationship with the USA and IK successfully did that. Look at the small steps and improvements already showing up.
F16 maintenance , diplomats movements, release of AH1Z etc is just the beginning. If the peace deal is signed Trump may visit Pakistan. That will be unimaginable just a year ago before IK.....
And yet Astrologers are seeing doom...
There is a reason why they sit on the road side and sell their art for A dollar .

 

[El Sidd]

I can boil an egg in this conspiracy humid thread.

US knows only a stubborn populist hippie would try and avoid war in the region. They are just planning a narrative post war.

 

[Verve]

Its your right

Agreed .... and exactly because of this reason I am afraid he might have over committed few things like we know at least one thing that he Openly on record said that We will make sure that coming election of Afghanistan would be all INCLUSIVE ELECTION on the other hand Taliban has opposed it in fact they are threatening to attack the election process .

Now this one commitment is such a huge that it is like we have committed to make Taliban shift their 18 years stance and struggle as they don't accept the current Afghan constitution, now by committing this IK has indirectly committed to make Taliban agreed to current Afghan Political setup and the government without even Taliban initiated the negotiation about it

Now If he fails to deliver this which he will as current situation is suggesting US would again term it another DECEIT by Pakistan .....


yaap heard rumours about it but to practical ground work is visible

IK has not committed anything, that assumption of yours is incorrect. He said it in the White House that he will try.

 

[Flight of falcon]

IK has not committed anything, that assumption of yours is incorrect. He said it in the White House that he will try.

Plus it is childish to assume , and based on no facts at all, that IK will make such a big commitment unless he actually had understanding made with Talibans before hand. This is a basic premises of diplomacy which our dear astrologer fails to understand.

 

[Humble Analyst]

State INSTITUTIONS are considered PERPETUAL ENTITIES individual are not ....


even Ayub and Mush during early days had support ... but after first years 3 it started declining .... I want IK to enjoy support for long enough period but we would be in better position to comment about firm pubic support after completion of 3 years of his government

It is about interests so if they are aligned institutions are aligned. The head of the institution gets the attention. IK is the head of the government. Which institution you are mentioning? I can read institutions in lower case as well.

 

[war&peace]

WTF Mr analyst where did you pull this out of ... your hat or your as...

Please mind your language... he is a respectable of the forum. You can differ with his opinion but it can be done in a civilised manner.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

امَنْتُ بِاللهِ وَمَلئِكَتِه وَكُتُبِه وَرَسُوْلِه وَالْيَوْمِ الْاخِرِ وَالْقَدْرِ خَيْرِه وَشَرِّه مِنَ اللهِ تَعَالى وَالْبَعْثِ بَعْدَالْمَوْت​

I believe in Allah and I believe that rise and fall is due to Allah...not America and I sincerely welcome this statement.

​

both

These trends are set by the Murad-i Ilahi ( Divine Plan/Execution etc.)!!! Have they been leaving any worldly means unattended to topple Reis Erdo’an?!? They’re failing there, and they’ll fail here insha’Allah!!

The leading Muslim countries are entering into the phase of Jemalet (mostly positive results from your good and sincere efforts) as the phase of Jelalet (mostly negative outcome from your Satanically evil actions) is being slowly removed!! It’s the reverse in the opposing camp!! Remember 02-26 to 28!! By the by, the leaders following IK will be even more efficient and effective....

 

[Flight of falcon]

Please mind your language... he is a respectable of the forum. You can differ with his opinion but it can be done in a civilised manner.

Calling BS is not wrong.... pay attention to what BS means. I couldn’t care less who he thinks he is but when people write nonsense it makes my blood boil.